....44 Special loads for the 3" GP100 ?
- Thread starter TJ11
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WIL TERRY
Buckeye
Your thought that 44SPL factory ammunition or handloaded ammunition is optimal for 6" BBLs is incorrect, Sir.
YOU can damn near bet the ranch that the BEST loads in a 6" gun will perform excellently in a 3" PISTOL.
BUT...YOU must develope the BEST loads for YOUR pistol. NO one can do it for you in THEIR pistol
And so it goes...
YOU can damn near bet the ranch that the BEST loads in a 6" gun will perform excellently in a 3" PISTOL.
BUT...YOU must develope the BEST loads for YOUR pistol. NO one can do it for you in THEIR pistol
And so it goes...
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Most data for the 44 Special is within SAAMI specs, as it should be, but don't forget that the GP-100 is a modern gun made with a very strong design. Skeeter Skelton's load was 7.5 grains of Unique under a 250 grain Keith style bullet for the 44 Special. That is over SAAMI specs. That load gives a muzzle velocity of roughly 950 fps.
If you are interested in the history of the 44 Special here is an article that really covers the subject.
http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c10.htm
If you are interested in the history of the 44 Special here is an article that really covers the subject.
http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c10.htm
WIL TERRY said:
I did not ask you to do anything for me just for an opinion. And to claim removing 50% of a barrel, 6" to 3", will not affect ballistic performance is far from fact. I started loading for the .44 MAG in 1999 so I won't be far off on my start for working up a load but most of todays data deals with powders I have not used and will have to add to my locker.
Thank you for your opinion.
Jimbo357mag said:
Thank you for the link and related information. I will have to add Unique to my powder stock. I have used three basics powders for most of my work but in an effort to have a better case fill and hit my goal of 800~850 FPS from this pistol I will have to change things a bit. Something a bit slower than Bullseye but faster than Blue Dot .
Cheers
As a general rule, less than magnum loads and shorter barrels are both better suited to a faster powder. Bullseye should suit your needs for a light load, but blue dot is really better suited to all-out loads, and quite possibly will not be efficiently used in a short barrel, as it is a fairly slow powder. Green dot or Unique would seem to be better suited for a bit stouter load in a short barrel. If, on the other hand, you want to follow Elmer and test the limits of the .44 Spl, all bets are off. Check with Alliant's on-line load data and see what they have to say.
Not having a ballistics lab at my disposal, this is based on what I've seen over the years, using a chronograph and watching the cases for signs of too much pressure. As was mentioned earlier, you're dealing with a pretty darn robust revolver, so the cases will tell you when you've hit the limit.
Disclaimer: All this advice is worth just what you paid.
Not having a ballistics lab at my disposal, this is based on what I've seen over the years, using a chronograph and watching the cases for signs of too much pressure. As was mentioned earlier, you're dealing with a pretty darn robust revolver, so the cases will tell you when you've hit the limit.
Disclaimer: All this advice is worth just what you paid.
WIL TERRY
Buckeye
SO, you think the chamber is part of the BBL huh.
The propellents you note are ALL consumed before the base of the bullet clears the end of the cartridge case.
NO ammunition company loads for a specific BBL length.
ALL their ammunition is loaded to specific pressure limts in SAAMI spec chambers, NOT VELOCITY LIMITS, and you cannot duplicate their work as you have no pressure measuring equipment. Barrel length has NOTHING to do with it other than funneling the propellent gasses out of the BBL. The longer it "funnels" the higher the velocity...usually....BUT NOT ALWAYS !!!
And so it goes...
The propellents you note are ALL consumed before the base of the bullet clears the end of the cartridge case.
NO ammunition company loads for a specific BBL length.
ALL their ammunition is loaded to specific pressure limts in SAAMI spec chambers, NOT VELOCITY LIMITS, and you cannot duplicate their work as you have no pressure measuring equipment. Barrel length has NOTHING to do with it other than funneling the propellent gasses out of the BBL. The longer it "funnels" the higher the velocity...usually....BUT NOT ALWAYS !!!
And so it goes...
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Universal or HP-38 or W231 would all work well for you with the 44 Special. Those powders might be more available.
Hodgdon data is at their website. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
Hodgdon data is at their website. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
The Feb 2018 Handloader magazine has some data for 44 Spl revolvers. It does not specifically mention the GP100 44 Spl for these "+P" labeled loads.
I have used 10 grains Blue Dot with 240 grain hard cast swc bullets. The load proved accurate enough at 15 yards in my 3" GP100.
The forcing cone of the GP100 does not look as stout as the Ruger flat top Bisley 44 Spl and I wouldn't be firing a lot of so-called +P Level II loads at 22,000 psi or Level III loads at 25,000 psi, as oft quoted in Handloader magazine, in the GP100 44 Spl.
In the article, Brian Pearce specifically says not to use the +P loads in the S&W 696 revolver. While the GP100 may be stronger than the 696, they are both made on similar frame sizes.
I have used 10 grains Blue Dot with 240 grain hard cast swc bullets. The load proved accurate enough at 15 yards in my 3" GP100.
The forcing cone of the GP100 does not look as stout as the Ruger flat top Bisley 44 Spl and I wouldn't be firing a lot of so-called +P Level II loads at 22,000 psi or Level III loads at 25,000 psi, as oft quoted in Handloader magazine, in the GP100 44 Spl.
In the article, Brian Pearce specifically says not to use the +P loads in the S&W 696 revolver. While the GP100 may be stronger than the 696, they are both made on similar frame sizes.
Don't pass up getting some 2400 if it is available. It covers almost every weight jacketed and cast bullet for 44spl ranging from pressures of 8,000 to 14,000 CUP.TJ11 said:
I've cast and powder coated some Lee TL430-240-SWC and pushed them with 12.0gr of 2400 at 835fps from my 3".
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Hi,
FWIW, I've loaded "Skeeter's (.44 Spl) Load" to shoot in a .44 Mag Redhawk, where it works nicely, with a 7 1/2" barrel, and isn't even up to breaking a sweat pressures in that gun. Whether the GP is stout enough for that load, I dunno. I have heard a couple of stories several years ago where "standard" .44 Spl revolvers (don't recall the brands) suffered damage from it, though.
At the other end of the .44 Spl range, I've loaded a starting load of Unique under a 240 gr cast bullet, gas checked, intending to shoot it in that same RH and a buddy's Charter Arms Bulldog (remember, the BD is NOT a heavy duty firearm.) It wasn't much to write home about in the RH. Buddy hasn't shot any yet in the BD. I stepped up a half grain and loaded more to try in the RH (IIRC, there's still a half grain to go to reach Alliant's max) but haven't gotten to the range with those yet.
So far, I think the advice for a fast powder is probably a better idea than Unique or Universal for what it sounds like you're looking for. Bullseye, Red Dot, 700X and 231 might be well suited if you can find them.
Rick C
FWIW, I've loaded "Skeeter's (.44 Spl) Load" to shoot in a .44 Mag Redhawk, where it works nicely, with a 7 1/2" barrel, and isn't even up to breaking a sweat pressures in that gun. Whether the GP is stout enough for that load, I dunno. I have heard a couple of stories several years ago where "standard" .44 Spl revolvers (don't recall the brands) suffered damage from it, though.
At the other end of the .44 Spl range, I've loaded a starting load of Unique under a 240 gr cast bullet, gas checked, intending to shoot it in that same RH and a buddy's Charter Arms Bulldog (remember, the BD is NOT a heavy duty firearm.) It wasn't much to write home about in the RH. Buddy hasn't shot any yet in the BD. I stepped up a half grain and loaded more to try in the RH (IIRC, there's still a half grain to go to reach Alliant's max) but haven't gotten to the range with those yet.
So far, I think the advice for a fast powder is probably a better idea than Unique or Universal for what it sounds like you're looking for. Bullseye, Red Dot, 700X and 231 might be well suited if you can find them.
Rick C
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
You get more velocity with a slow powder even with a short barrel. I would hesitate using fast powders like Bulls Eye or Red Dot in a large case like a 44 Special. Stick with Unique or Universal if possible, HP-38/W231 as second choice. Blue Dot will leave kernels of un-burnt powder in the case and all over the place with 44 Special pressures, which can sometimes jam a gun.Rick Courtright said:
Jimbo357mag said:
It was .357 Mag rather than .44 Spl, but a few years ago, a group of us had this sort of discussion, so we tried a 6" Colt and a 2" SP 101 with full-house loads of a slow powder (2400) and a fast powder (Clays) and chronographed them. The slow powder load was always faster than the fast powder load, and the short barrel velocity was always less than the long barrel velocity, but the difference between the two powders in the short barrel was pretty small. The 2400 load lost a lot more velocity than the Clays load when fired out of the short barrel.... not only in terms of the absolute velocity loss, but the drop in velocity as a percentage of the long barrel velocity was substantially greater.
We figured it goes something like this:
Both loads generate about the same pressure initially, but the powder charge (hence the amount of gas generated) is much larger with the slower powder. Because the pressure is the limiting factor, you can't have a large charge of a fast powder, or you would have a serious kaboom. As the bullet starts down the barrel, the gas volume is expanding, therefore dropping the pressure (it also loses pressure due to transferring heat to the barrel). There would come a time, in a long enough barrel, to where the pressure would drop low enough that the force exerted on the bullet would be less than the drag on the bullet passing through the barrel, and you would actually start to lose velocity.
With the larger amount of gas generated by the larger charge, the rate of pressure drop is less than with the smaller charge, allowing it to take advantage of a longer barrel. The bulk of this advantage goes unused in a short barrel, hence the relatively larger drop in velocity.
I use the Skeeter load in my GP100 (7.5g Unique under 240g SWC). I don't see any reason this revolver can't take a steady diet of this load. You can also use Universal | 20/28 | CFE Pistol | BE-86 with the same 7.5g to get aprox. the same velocity. But no to the Keith load or any load at that level. Leave that for the .44Mag. Other powders like Red Dot, Green Dot, W-231, True Blue, AA#5, Power Pistol work well too. One thing I found about the .44 Special is it is 'hard' to find a 'bad' load 
. Stick with fast or medium burn powers. Save the slow burners for the Magnums. Remember to always verify your loads with other resources than just me or the internet!
. Stick with fast or medium burn powers. Save the slow burners for the Magnums. Remember to always verify your loads with other resources than just me or the internet!
The Blackhawk Kid
Blackhawk
fwiw I load a 200 gr LSWC with 8.0 grains of Unique. It works in my SuperBhk with a 3 3/4 inch barrel. Chrono's at 900 fps.
The Blackhawk Kid, where are you getting a 200 grain LSWC for the 44?
The Norseman
Blackhawk
A lot of good advice in the replies here. But do your research.
The reload I've been using is my current go to plinking 44 S&W
Special reload; .431dia. 240gr Lead SWC Semi Wad Cutter or
RNFP round nose flat point works also. 5.0grs Alliant RED DOT.
5.0grs Alliant Red Dot, S&B LP primer
Brass is Win, or R-P.
Crimp is what I call medium roll crimp.
FPS approximately just under 800?
Bullets tumble lubed with Ben's Liquid Lube,
for Lead free barrel performance.
Primers no where near flat.
The thing about Red Dot is it has enough bulk, that it is easy
to visually see a double charge. Also if you were to over charge
it fills the case. I'm a single stage, small batch reloader anyway.
Other powders I've used and like are; Bullseye, Unique, American Select,
and Long Shot (not much info out there on this one), and Trail Boss.
Good luck and always think safety.
The reload I've been using is my current go to plinking 44 S&W
Special reload; .431dia. 240gr Lead SWC Semi Wad Cutter or
RNFP round nose flat point works also. 5.0grs Alliant RED DOT.
5.0grs Alliant Red Dot, S&B LP primer
Brass is Win, or R-P.
Crimp is what I call medium roll crimp.
FPS approximately just under 800?
Bullets tumble lubed with Ben's Liquid Lube,
for Lead free barrel performance.
Primers no where near flat.
The thing about Red Dot is it has enough bulk, that it is easy
to visually see a double charge. Also if you were to over charge
it fills the case. I'm a single stage, small batch reloader anyway.
Other powders I've used and like are; Bullseye, Unique, American Select,
and Long Shot (not much info out there on this one), and Trail Boss.
Good luck and always think safety.
woodsy
Buckeye
If anyone wishes to get a little bit of clarification on powder burn rates and barrel lengths, they could do far worse than reading an excellent post on another forum, by a retired gunsmith, who is very highly regarded, by the name of "Iowegan". His relevant post is about halfway down the page.
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/335889-tried-couple-titegroup-loadings.html
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/335889-tried-couple-titegroup-loadings.html
Again I have to thank everyone who contributed too the post. This has been a real eye opener.
I am getting some acceptable results with 7.2g of Unique and Berry's 240g HP target bullet. Loads using LSWC or coated LSWC bullets resulted in some leading, till the barrel is smother from break in I will stick with the plated 240's.
Seems o be working at 21 feet for this beginner.
I am getting some acceptable results with 7.2g of Unique and Berry's 240g HP target bullet. Loads using LSWC or coated LSWC bullets resulted in some leading, till the barrel is smother from break in I will stick with the plated 240's.
Seems o be working at 21 feet for this beginner.
Leading is a function of improper size to throat. Need to measure your throat diameters. Go with that or .001 larger. I use 14 grs of 2400 under a 240gr lswc sized .430 with a roll crimp for my Charter Arms Bulldog. Good luck.
gramps
gramps
So here I go again. Yesterday I was gifted a box Hornady 200g XTP and 240g XTP bullets by a very nice lady. I'm comfortable enough with this GP100 3" to now develop some serious dangerous game loads in .44 special. I think I will start at 7.5g of Unique under the 240g bullet and 8.5g under the 200g XTP.
Anyone have some history with these bullets ?
Anyone have some history with these bullets ?
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