-40F oil flow comparisons

[graygun]

for the oil nerds here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_vxdO_9nc

 

[Rick Courtright]

for the oil nerds here:

Hi,

At -40F, my blood would be flowing even slower than any of those oils! Good thing God invented engine heaters, no?

We had a shooter at our trap and skeet range, a retired Air Force pilot who'd flown in three wars. Bombers in WWII, transports in Korea, and he was checked out in F4s in Viet Nam, though I don't know if he flew any missions. During Korea, one route he flew involved a stopover in Alaska. Dunno which base, but it was one where winter temps are insanely cold. He told of the flight crews running out, grabbing all the batteries from the planes, draining the oil into barrels, and getting them all into the hanger next to huge heaters ASAP. When they were getting ready for takeoff, the warm oil would be returned to the engines just before they were ready to turn over. Otherwise, it would be Spring before they started again!

And in another business, I had a customer who'd worked on the Alaska Pipeline, and told how they simply never shut off their vehicles during winter where he was working. Even engine heaters weren't enough for a restart after sitting overnight. This is the first time I've seen a pour test of any kind at such a temperature, but I can appreciate both gentlemen's stories better now.

Rick C

 

[Fox Mike]

When I found out that the MIL-L-23699, used in Army helicopter turbine engines and transmissions, was actually Mobil 1 I started using it (5W-30) in all my engines. Never had a problem whether it is hot or cold.

 

[Dan in MI]

We test cars down to -40 for starting. It's slow, but they start.

to -30 unassisted (no block heaters, battery blankets etc) Minus 40 gets help.

Auto transmissions really don't like it. Slllloooooowwwww drive away.

 

[coach]

I've been using mobile1 in my vehicles for years. I never had to deal with -40 though. BTW -40c equals -40f

 

[Rancher Will]

I bought my south Ranch here in Colorado in 1960. Every winter since 1960 we have recorded at least one night, usually more than one, when the temperature dropped to -45 or below. The coldest temperature officially recorded here in our county occurred in 1962 when the weather station recorded -61. That night on our ranch the temperature was -58.

 

[graygun]

But...is Amsoil really the best,across the board ? It's not just an oil but seemingly a religion as well. :lol:

 

[CGDustDevil]

Mobile is hard to beat... The recommended oil for my 2004 Thunderbird is 5W-20 synthetic blend from Motorcraft. Out here in the desert, the stuff comes out of the bottle like lacquer thinner. It's hard to imagine the stuff can actually work when it's 120 out, but it does fine.

We hit 20-30 degrees F once or twice a winter out here, so I don't think I need to do a freezer test on my oil! ;)

Best regards, Pete

 

[Captain America]

Most Chrysler products use 0w/20 now...I couldn't imagine that 35 years ago.

 

[Colonialgirl]

for the oil nerds here:

Hi,

And in another business, I had a customer who'd worked on the Alaska Pipeline, and told how they simply never shut off their vehicles during winter where he was working. Even engine heaters weren't enough for a restart after sitting overnight. This is the first time I've seen a pour test of any kind at such a temperature, but I can appreciate both gentlemen's stories better now.

Rick C

Heard a talk about the Alaska Pipeline construction and how they not only NEVER shutoff the engines but that also the Foam in the seat cushions would deteriorate into powder and you rode around sitting on the springs; The other thing mentioned was that when you stopped you put BOARDS under the tires or else the tread would freeze to the ground and peel off when you started moving again. Work times were very short and you "Cycled" from work station into a warming tent on a right regular basis.

 

[welder]

Another Mobil 1 user here. I have always been satisfied with it but never had to experience -40 temps though. I use it in everything including all my air cooled engines.

 

[exavid]

In the early 60s when I began flying in NW Alaska I'd drain the oil from my Super Cub into a bucket and take it into my place. In the morning I'd heat up on the stove and pour it back into the engine just before I was ready to start it up. Later on they came out with WhamO catalyitic heaters we could fire them up, stuff them in the cowling and cover it all up with the insulated engine cover. That would keep the airplane ready to fly for about 24 yours with no chance of setting it on fire. Lots of people in the great north used plumber's fire pots to preheat airplanes in the winter but more than one aircraft burned up from that process.
It sure was a boon when arctic weight aircraft oils became available. Still best to heat a bit but at least you could pull the prop through with a cold engine instead of chinning yourself on it.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

When I was working in Russia it would get to -20-30F we didn't turn off any of the construction equipment or the pick-ups. All were diesel engines.

 

[powder smoke]

We get down to the minus 20's on occasion here in Maine sometimes along with a
wind chill factor. I run a Duramax Diesel PU, definitely plug it in when we hit those
extremes. Never put in a drop of oil in that engine other than Shell Rotella. To the
best of my knowledge that is the best oil for Diesel's. ps

 

[Ale-8(1)]

BTW -40c equals -40f

I was wondering if someone would mention that. ;)

Cold weather story . . . Several hundred years ago when I still lived in Iowa I witnessed a tactic I had not seen before or since. I had taken a friend to a smallish airport to catch a commuter flight on an extremely cold morning. For whatever reason, there was a plane that had spent the night parked on the tarmac. Can't recall the model of aircraft, but it was a two-engine version of the "two seats on either side of the center aisle" configuration, jet engines under the wings.

Another essentially identical plane arrived and taxied up to the terminal. At this little airport, boarding was accomplished by walking out to the plane and climbing up the portable stairway rolled into place by the same guy who also handled your luggage. The arrival did not shut down either engine, and there was a considerable pause in the activity at the gate. Then the arrival did a rather neat job of taxiing over to the parked plane and carefully swinging in right in front of it. The gate/luggage guy then drove a tug over to the idling plane, hooked onto it, and pushed it back as close to the parked plane as possible. He disconnected the towbar and drove the tug away.

See the arrangement now? One plane that has been parked in a sub-zero overnight is now being "warmed up" by the jet exhaust of the just-arrived plane. Yep, that's it, folks. I didn't believe it either. Apparently it was absolutely necessary to get that parked plane started . . . so necessary that schedules went out the window. I left my friend there to catch whatever flight would develop. He later told me they "heated" the parked aircraft for over an hour, and then managed to start the engines.

Honest-to-gosh true story.

 

[WAYNO]

Couple thoughts. -40 is a stretch for 5w oil. So, it's not necessarily a lack of quality that prevents the Walmart brand of conventional oil from flowing at such a low temp.

I just bought a new Dodge diesel pickup. I was surprised to find it does not have an engine block heater. Are they thinking we don't need them any more? Is the expectation that folks are mostly using synthetic oil? I don't know anybody that uses free flowing synthetic oils in their diesel pickups, so a conventional diesel-grade oil is still gonna be like tar in the crank case in extreme cold weather. Why would eliminating a heater ever be a worthwhile money savings?

I worked 38+ years in an industrial setting with hundreds of large motors, pumps, gearboxes and other huge equipment. The top supervisor of the maintenance department happened to be an Amsoil dealer on the side. He convinced the company to switch to his product. We did, and began suffering larger than normal failures of our equipment. There was always an excuse why Amsoil should not be blamed. Eventually, we went back to conventional lubricants and never looked back.

Last...I ride motorcycles a lot with a lot of other folks. Almost exclusively Harley's. I've seen a lot of engine failures over the years. The common denominator is, after an engine kaboom, the folks brag about how great synthetic oil is in Harley's. Was it coincidence that it was time for the engine failure regardless of oil type? Or is synthetic really not the best choice for such a hot running air-cooled dinosaur motor?

I have found it's not wise to discuss the advantages of either oil with a synthetic oil user. I use dinosaur oil and I will lose the argument every time. As somebody said above, synthetic oil is almost a religion.

WAYNO.

 

[Dan in MI]

One thing to think about when you talk temps and vehicles. Just because the air is -xx* doesn't mean your engine/trans are that cold. It takes quite a while to get a true cold soak where everything is at that temp. Generally six to eight hours is required in a cold chamber with hoods open and fans to get a fully warmed engine back down to -40* oil, water, and trans fluid temps.

 

[graygun]

Couple thoughts. -40 is a stretch for 5w oil. So, it's not necessarily a lack of quality that prevents the Walmart brand of conventional oil from flowing at such a low temp.

I just bought a new Dodge diesel pickup. I was surprised to find it does not have an engine block heater. Are they thinking we don't need them any more? Is the expectation that folks are mostly using synthetic oil? I don't know anybody that uses free flowing synthetic oils in their diesel pickups, so a conventional diesel-grade oil is still gonna be like tar in the crank case in extreme cold weather. Why would eliminating a heater ever be a worthwhile money savings?

I worked 38+ years in an industrial setting with hundreds of large motors, pumps, gearboxes and other huge equipment. The top supervisor of the maintenance department happened to be an Amsoil dealer on the side. He convinced the company to switch to his product. We did, and began suffering larger than normal failures of our equipment. There was always an excuse why Amsoil should not be blamed. Eventually, we went back to conventional lubricants and never looked back.

Last...I ride motorcycles a lot with a lot of other folks. Almost exclusively Harley's. I've seen a lot of engine failures over the years. The common denominator is, after an engine kaboom, the folks brag about how great synthetic oil is in Harley's. Was it coincidence that it was time for the engine failure regardless of oil type? Or is synthetic really not the best choice for such a hot running air-cooled dinosaur motor?

I have found it's not wise to discuss the advantages of either oil with a synthetic oil user. I use dinosaur oil and I will lose the argument every time. As somebody said above, synthetic oil is almost a religion.

WAYNO.

Always go with what's recommended. Syn is generally superior to dino but may not be right for a specific app.

 

[WAYNO]

Couple thoughts. -40 is a stretch for 5w oil. So, it's not necessarily a lack of quality that prevents the Walmart brand of conventional oil from flowing at such a low temp.

I just bought a new Dodge diesel pickup. I was surprised to find it does not have an engine block heater. Are they thinking we don't need them any more? Is the expectation that folks are mostly using synthetic oil? I don't know anybody that uses free flowing synthetic oils in their diesel pickups, so a conventional diesel-grade oil is still gonna be like tar in the crank case in extreme cold weather. Why would eliminating a heater ever be a worthwhile money savings?

I worked 38+ years in an industrial setting with hundreds of large motors, pumps, gearboxes and other huge equipment. The top supervisor of the maintenance department happened to be an Amsoil dealer on the side. He convinced the company to switch to his product. We did, and began suffering larger than normal failures of our equipment. There was always an excuse why Amsoil should not be blamed. Eventually, we went back to conventional lubricants and never looked back.

Last...I ride motorcycles a lot with a lot of other folks. Almost exclusively Harley's. I've seen a lot of engine failures over the years. The common denominator is, after an engine kaboom, the folks brag about how great synthetic oil is in Harley's. Was it coincidence that it was time for the engine failure regardless of oil type? Or is synthetic really not the best choice for such a hot running air-cooled dinosaur motor?

I have found it's not wise to discuss the advantages of either oil with a synthetic oil user. I use dinosaur oil and I will lose the argument every time. As somebody said above, synthetic oil is almost a religion.

WAYNO.

Always go with what's recommended. Syn is generally superior to dino but may not be right for a specific app.

Both are recommended in every application I've encountered. I'm not talking about using synthetic in an application that is prohibitive. Yours is one defense I hear often. When a piece of equipment fails that was using synthetic, the disclaimer surfaces, "wrong specific app."

When a Harley dealer, or a Dodge dealer both promote synthetic oil because they make a lot more money hyping it, I don't think the "wrong application" should be an argument defending the oil.

Bottom line. When there's not a problem, it's the best oil ever. When you have a problem, then it's the wrong application and operator error. Back to what I said about synthetic oil being like a cult religion.

 

[graygun]

I had a 2004 Sierra and it said to not use syn in the trans(maybe the newer ones use it). My 2016 Honda uses semi syn and they say full syn is ok to use...seems a little reversed. I'm using Mobil 1 in it now.

I said Amsoil was like a religion (not syn in general). It's because the dealers are so zealous.

 

[GP100]

I have never, and never will use, synthetic oil in any of my stuff.. My vehicles have all ran just fine on standard old oil since I've owned them.. Never had an issue. So why change.. I've used Valvoline for years and it really keeps things clean in there.. Valve covers come off with no sludge in the engine..

Good enough for my needs.. I have 168,600 on my 4.6L Triton V8 in my 1999 Ford E-150 Van.. She still runs pretty good for an old van.. Not to many issues really..

 

[Captain America]

...I just bought a new Dodge diesel pickup. I was surprised to find it does not have an engine block heater. Are they thinking we don't need them any more? Is the expectation that folks are mostly using synthetic oil? I don't know anybody that uses free flowing synthetic oils in their diesel pickups, so a conventional diesel-grade oil is still gonna be like tar in the crank case in extreme cold weather. Why would eliminating a heater ever be a worthwhile money savings?...

If you have a 6.7L Cummins Mopar recommends 5w/40 Rotella below 0°F (-18°C) and 15w/40 Rotella above 0°F (-18°C). All Ram trucks with Cummins diesels have a block heater but not all dealers order the cold weather package(battery blanket, block heater cable, all weather floor mats, etc), so a lot of owners are unaware they have a heating element, all you need is the under hood cable if you want to plug your Ram in. If you have a 3.0L diesel then you run 5w/40 Rotella regardless of temperature.

 

[mohavesam]

When (IF I ever) I see -40F outside, I move to a human-friendly climate. I've moved for less life-threatening reasons!

 

[Dan in MI]

When (IF I ever) I see -40F outside, I move to a human-friendly climate. I've moved for less life-threatening reasons!

C'mon now Sam. I just spent two weeks in your little corner of haides.(sp) I'm coming back in a few weeks for more fun in the sun. At least you can bundle up for cold.

 

[Cholo]

There's that troublemaker, graygun, starting an oil thread on a gun forum. Next will be a 9mm vs 40 debate and then is a .357 mag. enough gun for grizzly bears :mrgreen:

I have a '96 Mustang Cobra that I've always run Mobile 1 in. Is it really better? It doesn't get driven much and I do believe a synthetic doesn't break down as much over time. There's absolutely no way of knowing if that's true or not. If I believe it's true, then I'll use it, though it doesn't make it true. A work vehicle I no longer have went 345,000 miles on conventional oil before someone read ended me and totaled it. It didn't use a drop between changes.

I have 4 motorcycles. My '80 has always used conventional oil. The other 3 have had nothing but synthetic. What does my PHD certified Harley mechanic recommend? He says synthetic oil is snake oil and he uses conventional in his bikes. I think he knows what he's talking about. He also recommends 2,000 mile oil changes. I don't think so :)

 

[daveg.inkc]

I've bought Quaker State and used it for 40 plus years, never a problem. Valvoline too, keeps engines clean. Main thing, change oil and filter regular

 

[Cholo]

^ It's a good thing you didn't use Quaker State 45+ years ago or you'd be scraping hard rubber deposits off your valve covers on an engine that might go 100,000 miles and use a quart every 400 miles. Ask me how I know.

Hey, don't blame me! Blame graygun. He started this thread :mrgreen:

 

[daveg.inkc]

Trop Artic used to be well known. Phillips 66

 

[Bull Barrel]

There are differences in synthetics. Many synthetic oils arent. They are Group III synthetics which are ultra refined dino oil.
Group IV and Group V oils are true synthetics. Then there are ester based and paraffin based oil stocks.
And semi synthetic? What percentage of the base stock is synthetic? Truth be known multi weight oils act like they do because of synthetic polymers.

Funny Harley engines were mentioned. When HD brought out the V-rod the engine was used in their road racing program. HD always sid to use Hawg Oil in their engines. What did they use in the race bike? Mobil 1.

 

[graygun]

I've heard that M1 is group 3 and not considered full syn in some countries.

Yes,certain topics tend to drift a lot. :lol: