.38 Spl small primer question.

[gobe]

Just reloaded 100 .38 Spl cartridges and shot 'em today. Had five duds. Nice punch on the primer, but nothing ... click. Took 'em home and used my new, handy-dandy bullet puller. No powder. Bullets had blackened base that would indicate an explosion (primer). Would it be normal for a small pistol primer to fire without popping the slug out of the cartridge?

I had one 'dud' with a .45 LC and large pistol primer that drove the slug into the barrel. However, all five of the .38 Spl 'duds' primers fired, but did not dislodge the slugs from the cartridges. Am I overcrimping or is this normal for a small primer?

 

[langenc]

Be glad the bullet was not pushed into the barrel. When the next one w/ powder went off, who knows what would happen??

 

[comanche]

Not to be rude or anything, BUT WHY do you you have 5/100 with no powder.
Reloading can be dangerous; you need to be more CAREFUL.

to answer your queston, yes it would be expected(normal?)

 

[Cholo]

gobe, you need to seriously reconsider reloading as a hobby if you let that many slip thru without your noticing some had no powder. In the meantime, you're a walking time bomb.

 

[patcannon]

I second what comanche said, you need to figure out how you got five rounds without powder so you can make it not happen again.

Interesting to know that the .38 bullets stayed in the case. I'm kinda glad to hear this, it's less dangerous (and less hassle) than a plugged barrel.

What brand of primer?

 

[contender]

Ok y'all let's NOT pick on gobe as he is asking a serious question.
I would venture that you had a strong enough crimp to not dislodge the bullets. Just my guess.
Now,, let's see if we can't figure out how to prevent future problems where all cases have a correct powder charge.
If you are loading on a single stage set-up,, I suggest you use a loading block,, throw 50 cases of powder before you add the bullets & seat them. BEFORE you seat any bullets,, stand up over the loading block as it lays on the bench,, and visually check each case for a proper level of powder.
If you are using a progressive press,, with manuel indexing,, you may be getting distracted and not properly indexing at the correct time. Or if it has an automatic indexing system,, you may be lowering the ram,, and then running it back up for whatever reason,, causing a case to index around w/o powder.
All in all, you should try & figure out what you are doing that caused such a high number of cases w/o powder,, and focus on fixing that.
If I can help further,, PM me!

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Well,
I see quite a few squibs while shooting CAS. Not mine but yes I have had a few.
Most of the time they get stuck in the barrel. Somtimes they will stick in the forcing cone then you have to drive them back into the cylinder/case.
If yours are still in the case ya might think about backing off your crimp. Ya don't need that tight of a crimp. Just screws up your brass.
Yea pay more attention. As long as YOU KNOW you had a squib not that big of a deal. Just a pain to clear the gun. I would think only a complete Dumb arsh wouldn't know he had a squib.
Jim

 

[wixedmords]

I believe your crimp is holding the bullet in place, like Contender said gobe.

They guys are just looking after your health when commenting about your squibs. I'd try to find a way to get an eye inside of each case to verify the is one, powder in each case and two, the proper amount of powder. I verify in a loading block under a light or flashlight.

Don't be discouraged, just try to do better.

Good luck.

 

[gobe]

As I've said before on this Forum, I've reloaded tens of thousands of shotgun shells, but am new to handgun cartridge reloading. All the shotshell reloading was on a MEC Grabber (progressive), I'm now loading cartridge ammo on a Dillon 550. Started with .45LC and just set up for .38 Spl.

BTW, after each misfire, I unloaded the SP-101 and checked the barrel. I now have a brass rod in my bag, as suggested by some CAS, after my one & only squib in the .45.

When I first started loading .45LC's with TiteGroup, it was difficult to see the powder in the cartridge when rotating from station #2 to #3 and Contender suggested stopping the 'progression' after the powder drop op and moving the cartridges to a loading block for a visual inspection before continueing on to the bullet seating and crimping operations. An excellent suggestion that I will now go back to since I am using up the TiteGroup in the .38 Spl's. I switched to Trail Boss for the ,45LC and can see the powder level easily after the powder drop. Not so with the TiteGroup in the .38's. Back to the loading block after the powder drop again.

I've often said, "There's two things I can't stand; pain and temptation. But of the two ... I'd rather have temptation." Guess the same applies here ... "; a squib and a double. But of the two, I'd rather have a squib" on the range.

Thanks for your helpful inputs, guys. I've got one other 'suspicion' I need to look into ... occasionally the charge bar will 'snap' towards the end of the stroke. Next time it happens, I'll pull the cartridge and see if the powder dropped. Might be in the market for a new powder assembly from Dillon.

BTW Pat ... the primers were Remington No.1-1/2 small pistol.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I have several Pards that load on the 550. They use all types of powder.
I use a 650 with the powder check.
Sounds to me it is a press problem. If you have to stop and look in the case or put it in a loading block. That kind of defeats the reason to have a progressive press. FWIW I use 4 - 4.5 of 231 and 700X in 357s. If I put in a double charge not likley, it wouldn't hurt the OM Blackhawk. I sure know if I have a squib :roll:
Check your press or give Dillon a call. THEY WILL help you.
JIm

 

[wixedmords]

It's an odd thing that guys using progressive presses seem to learn the definition of "squib" early.

Not knocking a person here.

 

[desertrat]

........They guys are just looking after your health when commenting about your squibs....

Not just his health but the "health" of the people shooting next to him if he's at an outdoor range.

 

[Rick Courtright]

As I've said before on this Forum, I've reloaded tens of thousands of shotgun shells, but am new to handgun cartridge reloading. All the shotshell reloading was on a MEC Grabber (progressive), I'm now loading cartridge ammo on a Dillon 550.

Hi, gobe

Like yourself, I loaded tons of shotshells (almost 200,000?) before ever coming to metallic loading, where I started w/ rifle, then handgun ammo.

At first glance, I'd suggest a progressive press is NOT the best choice for the new handgun loader. But you've already got one, so there's no sense looking back.

Though your progressive experience w/ the shotshells should stand you in good stead, remember that you have a visual indicator of each shell getting its proper powder charge if you watch the wad pressure indicator move as the wad's seated on the powder. That's a good safety check. And, if I remember the Grabber, isn't the charge bar spring loaded in a way it has to be pushed all the way to one side to drop the shot, then it always returns all the way to pick up the next powder charge?

Don't think the 550 is quite that "idiot proof" but it's been a while since I've been up close and personal w/ one, so I could be wrong. Regardless, folks DO come up w/ a variety of "aftermarket" ways to determine if their progressive pistol presses ARE dropping full charges. Some involve physical gizmos added to the press, some involve lights. I'm sure Contender's probably already pointed you in the right direction in that department, or will if you correspond w/ him.

Whatever route you choose, you do want to develop and ALWAYS use some "safety check" system. As you've already experienced enough potential squibs for several 1000s if not 10s of 1000s of rounds, I'm sure your mind's open and hungry to learn how NOT to repeat that experience!

Now, this is a bush league solution, but if you have a digital scale, you can carefully make up, then weigh, a few rounds w/ your particular recipe and record your results in your log book.

Then you can take all your loaded rounds (using THAT recipe, of course!) and weigh them to see if you have any that are obviously "powder challenged." You'll find no two rounds weigh exactly the same, but they'll probably be within a grain or so of each other when all the variables (powder charge, case weight, bullet weight) are figured in, so you SHOULD be able to see which ones are seriously underweight easily enough. It's faster than pulling ALL the suspect rounds apart...

You COULD do the same w/ a balance beam scale, but a cheapo digital (around $30 or so?) makes shorter work of it.

Whatever you do, keep asking questions, and please be as careful as possible!

Rick C

 

[Wyandot Jim]

It's an odd thing that guys using progressive presses seem to learn the definition of "squib" early.

Not knocking a person here.

Well,
If ya shoot 7000-8000 rounds a year ya might learn what a squib feels like. Well unless ya use a progressive you probably don't shoot that much. :roll:

Ya think the Mfg. load in a loading block :lol:
Geeeee my gun just went click and no bang. I wounder what is wrong
Just for your own info at a CAS match the RO can stop a person from pulling the trigger again when he KNOWS he had a squib. The shooter has probably already stopped. Everybody that reloads watches for this. ALL EXPERIENCED shooters know when they have a squib. IMHO. If you have not you have not reloaded much.

Jim

 

[Pal Val]

You're lucky that you were reloading, not parachute jumping. You get a second chance to reload those rounds taking more care.

 

[woodysan]

I physically eyeball every powder load on my Lee turret press,take NO chances. Please do not get distracted, I stop if someone comes out to talk to me-finish the load and talk to them. Woody :!:

 

[WESHOOT2]

My only-ever squib was a 22LR.
Ever.....

That was about thirty years ago.

Yes, I stopped in time (good thing, too, becase it was in my pristine Colt Woodsman).

 

[bub]

I physically eyeball every powder load on my Lee turret press,take NO chances. Please do not get distracted, I stop if someone comes out to talk to me-finish the load and talk to them. Woody :!:

This. While I have never had a squib, I ALWAYS make sure that I visually verify that there is a powder charge in every case I load. I use a Hornady LNL AP. As I raise the ram, I visually verify that the powder measure actuates then, on the bottom of the stroke, I visually check every case for powder and approximately the right amount. I ended up having to buy a small desk lamp with a flexible neck, which can be positioned so that it shines enough light into the case to visually check.

If the powder you are using doesn't fill the case enough to easily visually check, please consider changing powders to one that fills more of the case. This allows you to do two different things- you can more easily visually check the case for powder, and it allows you to more easily check for double charges, since a more bulky powder will fill more of the case and it will be easier to tell if a case has been double charged.

Visually checking every case is a little slower than just cranking away, but myself, I'd rather check each and every case rather than crank away, have a squib or double charge and risk damaging/destroying a gun and possibly severely hurting myself or someone else.

Bub

 

[edlmann]

If you are loading on a single stage set-up,,

Do not recommend the OP even think about a progressive at his skill level. Crawl before walking, etc.

I suggest you use a loading block,, throw 50 cases of powder before you add the bullets & seat them. BEFORE you seat any bullets,, stand up over the loading block as it lays on the bench,, and visually check each case for a proper level of powder.

I think this is mandatory. Either use direct sunlight or a small flashlight if necessary. I like to hold the block a couple of feet below my eyes so I can see as many cases at the same time. The exceptions (empty cases, double charges) really stand out.

 

[marlin1881]

I load 38spl with TiteGroup as well. Very good powder for low-velocity accurate loads. But, as has been posted above, it is difficult/impossible to see a light charge of TG in a 38spl case.

On my progressive, I have a light that shines down inside the case just after the powder drop station. Still can't see it with the TG load. So, I quickly remove it, observe the powder, and put it back in that station again. It's a mandatory step for this load.

As with the shotgun reloading, the metric for knowing that the powder dropped correctly, is the wad pressure gauge in the next station. My point here is to have some metric that will force you to determine if the load is being built OK, or not. Some people say that they don't know how they got a squib load as they looked at the loads 3 times!!! Don't fall into this trap, as if you observe one stage in reloading more than once, you'll get relaxed on your observation, because you think you'll catch it the next time, or the next time... Don't do this.

Make your reloading steps have mandatory checks of some kind, that forces acceptance or rejection, at just one time that you physically observe. Light charges of 38spl require some special attention. 357mag can even be worse with the taller case. Both of these require me to quickly remove, observe, and replace in the station just after the powder drop.

Now, 45acp is a piece of cake with a big fat case and easy to see in the case. I can safely and correctly, crank out hundreds of those in a hour.

 

[woodysan]

Excellent respones,I couldn't agree more with you guys. I even take a Mag lite to the range with me,I've never had to use it! Thankfully. Yes .45 cal is easy to reload I have 3 1911's and reload hundreds of shells each month. I really enjoyed shooting the GP 100 I haven't shot a wheel gun since early sixties in the Navy,its so easy to load and shoot. I really liked my Ruger Blackhawk .357 I had at NAS Whidbey Island many moons ago-never forget the first time we shot it didn't think about ear protection! Yikes!! Jerry and I went downtown in Oak Harbor and had a few draughts-we couldn't hear each other in the bar HA HA HA! Woody

 

[Lost Sheep]

Yes, a strong crimp while using a regular primer could definitely leave the bullet unmoved from the case.

I had a squib once, in the mid-seventies. It drove the bullet out of the case and into the forcing cone. Half-in and half out of the cylinder. And I didn't have any kind of rod to drive the bullet back into the cylinder. Fortunately, I was shooting a Dan Wesson and just unscrewed the barrel and the bullet fell out.

Then I got a progressive press with automatic powder dump.

My next squib came with about 19 siblings. I didn't notice that I ran my powder hopper out of powder. After I did notice, I wound up pulling 30 bullets to find those twenty empties and ensure there weren't any others.

Producing a squib is kind of like shooting your chronograph. It can happen to anyone.

You just tighten up your procedures, be extra-careful and move on. Try our best to make your process airtight. I now use a cheat sheet with my progressive.

Stroke down, (ram moves up)
watch for primer drop at station one.
See if the powder measure's dumper moved properly,
look at powder level in the hopper (added step)
Stroke up
watch for movement of primers in the primer feed chute
feel for the primer seating at station 2
pluck finished round from the press
look for powder in the bottom of the case at station 3 (added step)
place bullet on case mouth, station 3
place fired cartridge case at station one

I feel stupid having to write it all down, step by step and have to follow the checklist. But I feel a lot less stupid than if I blew up one of my guns, my hand or someone else's head.

Lost Sheep

 

[gobe]

Even highly experienced Airline Pilots have to run through the Checklist with the First Officer before each flight. I had a set routine during the 36 years of reloading shotgun shells on my MEC Grabber.

I have developed a new "Checklist" for the Dillon 550 similiar to yours. Since I am 'new' to cartridge ammo reloading, it is probably still a 'work-in-progress'. I've picked up some good pointers fro some of the helpful Forum members that I found very useful.

As a pilot, I always used the standard CIGAR TIP checklist and never had a surprise due to a missed check. They work, once you get them established.

 

[Old Judge Creek]

It's an odd thing that guys using progressive presses seem to learn the definition of "squib" early.

Not knocking a person here.

Well,
If ya shoot 7000-8000 rounds a year ya might learn what a squib feels like. Well unless ya use a progressive you probably don't shoot that much. :roll:

Ya think the Mfg. load in a loading block :lol:
Geeeee my gun just went click and no bang. I wounder what is wrong
Just for your own info at a CAS match the RO can stop a person from pulling the trigger again when he KNOWS he had a squib. The shooter has probably already stopped. Everybody that reloads watches for this. ALL EXPERIENCED shooters know when they have a squib. IMHO. If you have not you have not reloaded much.

Jim

Jim, your words are FACT!

I've even had a guy drop the hammer of his Colt on my thumb when:
he fired a squib,
I yelled STOP!
he cocked the piece for the next round anyway
I reached out and grabbed the revolver with my strong hand with my thumb between thew hammer and the revolver frame (IMO; ROs, if they also operate the timer, must hold the timer in their same off hand as the shooter's off hand for this very reason)

and he pulled the trigger anyway (and impaled my thumb on the hammer in the process)

Lots of newbies are so pumped on the firing line that they never feel a squib - a very dangerous thing.

 

[WyoGunner]

I skimmed through all the posts and it doesn't look like anyone suggested the use of a powder cop/checker die. These can be very helpful as a quick check for powder level. They are almost a must have on a progressive/turret press for revolver calibers. They will work quite well with the higher volume powders. They won't work as well with the lower volume powders. Mistakes that don't kill/injure you are only a bad thing if you don't learn from them. Good luck!

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I skimmed through all the posts and it doesn't look like anyone suggested the use of a powder cop/checker die. These can be very helpful as a quick check for powder level. They are almost a must have on a progressive/turret press for revolver calibers. They will work quite well with the higher volume powders. They won't work as well with the lower volume powders. Mistakes that don't kill/injure you are only a bad thing if you don't learn from them. Good luck!

Well,
A 650 has a powder check die that works rather well. Thank you very much. If ya can't here a buzzer going off when ya got to much or to little powder. Take up underwater basket basket weaving :roll:
He who loads a bunch with a 650,
Jim

 

[Rclark]

I've never had a squib either... but definitely not a high volume reloader. Probably average a hundred. hundred and fifty a week is all.... On a single stage press too. My process is dump a charge, check powder in the case, cap with bullet, and seat and crimp. Then go to the next one. Works for me....

 

[dougader]

It's an odd thing that guys using progressive presses seem to learn the definition of "squib" early.

Not knocking a person here.

I learned on a Hornady 0-7 single stage press in about 1984. I got a Dillon 550B for my birthday in about 1986. In all that time I have never had a squib or a double charged case.

I don't understand how it happens when you're paying attention to what you're doing. :?

 

[Pal Val]

My take on progressive loaders: The best effort you make to idiot-proof one only serves to make you a better idiot. If you use one, your best bet is to stay alert and work it very methodically. It's only a machine.