.38/44 Loads

[RugerBH103]

I have a GP-100 in 38 special only. It is the blued 4 inch fixed sight model. I would have rather had a 357 but the price on this one was to good to walk away. I have considered getting the cylinder reamed to accept 357 rounds. All of the information I can find suggests that the 38's and 357's are the same gun in a different chambering. Ruger customer service however will not confirm this.

I got to thinking, I know dangerous. If the guns are the same I should be able to reload to the old 38 Outdoorsman heavy loads. Any ideas on this one way or another. Does anyone know if these were built on standard 38 special brass?

Thanks as always for the assistance.

 

[CraigC]

Yep, .38-44 loads would be safe in any .357 and there is no difference between .38 and .357 GP's. Except the length of the chambers of course.

I quit counting at 20 reloads on a standard .38 case with .38-44 loads. No need for special brass.

 

[WIL TERRY]

THE 38/44 handloads of times past are extremely accurate in almost all heavy duty38's and 357 revolvers. as a matter of fact I tend to shoot the 38/44 in all my 38's and 357 sixguns, even the J-frames; No problemo ! The COLT NF 5 1/2" 38 shoots the 38/44 like a lazerbeam out close to darn near the promised land. the Colt SAA 38 is just about as accurate. I cannot remember ever losing a single 38SPL case to wearing out. I did have a S&W M27 5" 357 that'd clip the case head off the case due to a bit of excessive headspace with the relatively thin Hornady 38 brass they used to use in their 38 wadcutter loads way back when. It was no big deal really.

 

[RugerBH103]

Thanks guys. Anyone have a pet load that they would be willing to share? I have a bunch of 158 gr semi-wadcutters I'd like to use.

I am looking for a decent close-in field / predator load that might work for the occasional whitetail. The biggest deer I have ever shot was 200 pounds, and he was the exception. I can't remember the last time I shot one farther than 50 yards, and most were closer. Not sure if I can get there with the 38 or not, but I figured it was worth a try before I alter the gun.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Personally I would look around in your area for a gunsmith that would ream-out your cylinder to 357mag as it would be so much more versatile to do it that way. As noted above modern 38sp brass is as strong as 357mag brass and your gun should be able to take extremely hot 38sp loads.

 

[David LaPell]

If you can find a copy of the October 2006 Handloader there is a great article on the .38-44 loads by Brian Pearce, the best article I recall seeing on it. I cast my own bullets for it particularly #358156 hollowpoints at around 12.5-13.0 grains of 2400 or a 170 grain cast #358429 SWC with around 12.0-12.5 grains of 2400. I use nickel .38 Special +P brass mainly because I keep those loads separate from everything else, I think my Smith 649 in +P would handle them but the recoil is a bit brisk. If you want, PM or email me and I can scan you a copy of that article.

Before I switched back to a .357 Blackhawk (which I shoot more .38-44 loads out of than .357 simply because I have so many loaded up right now) I had a Smith & Wesson Outdoorsman. After I got hurt and lost a lot of the use of the my left arm, I got really good at shooting a handgun, even one handed from a pair of sticks. I got out as far as 65 yards with that gun and .38-44 loads.

This was one handed of shooting sticks with my Outdoorsman



This was just a plain white piece of paper cut down to about the size of a deer's vitals (I don't use bullseyes fpr that.





Some of the same loads of out my Blackhawk albeit a bit closer. I plan on getting the Ruger out to 75 yards to see what I can do with it.

 

[RugerBH103]

Thanks for the great information.

 

[fbks ak]

Good shooting better than any thing I can do

 

[Joe S.]

I load a long nosed 180 gr bullet (Beartooth) with 11.5 gr of 2400 and it seems to do pretty good. After 11.5 gr i started having powder left over so i backed down to 11.5 and held. Seems to do pretty good. Sounds like a 357.

 

[Onty]

I have a GP-100 in 38 special only. It is the blued 4 inch fixed sight model. I would have rather had a 357 but the price on this one was to good to walk away. I have considered getting the cylinder reamed to accept 357 rounds. All of the information I can find suggests that the 38's and 357's are the same gun in a different chambering. Ruger customer service however will not confirm this.

I got to thinking, I know dangerous. If the guns are the same I should be able to reload to the old 38 Outdoorsman heavy loads. Any ideas on this one way or another. Does anyone know if these were built on standard 38 special brass?

Thanks as always for the assistance.

I urge you do not ream that GP-100 38 Special to 357. As far as I know, not too many are around. With proper 38/44 loads you are loosing nothing to 357. If you really want 357, I would strongly recommend put it for trade-in, any true 38 Special shooter will be glad to give you GP-100 in 357 for GP-100 38 Special. Both of you will have revolvers you want, you personally will not paying for reaming, and a nice piece of rare American firearm will be preserved.

JMHO

 

[Joe S.]

Good advice.

 

[don44]

Good shootin' !

 

[toysoldier]

A note of caution---
If you have another .38 Special that will NOT handle the highpowered loads, you are setting yourself up for trouble. No matter what you do to identify the hot loads, there is a possibility that someone will load them in the wrong gun.

My first .38 was a Ruger Service-Six, probably surplus from some big-city police department. Knowing that it was essentially the same gun as a .357, I loaded some rounds to moderate .357 level for home defense. I later acquired a Taurus .38 snubbie, a S&W Model 10 .38, and a Ruger Security-Six in .357. With both .38 and .357 rounds in the house, I decided to eliminate the chance of a mix-up and shot off all the hot .38's for target practice.

 

[Joe S.]

Thats one thing i like about the long nosed bullets. Wont fit in a small framed, short cylindered 38 special only.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Onty , I agree. I own 6 GP100`s but only one of them is a .38 Sp. When I saw that .38 was available,I jumped right on it even though I already had it`s duplicate chambered in .357. When I shoot .38 loads,I don`t want to have to dig crud out of the chambers and when shooting hollow base wad cutters,the bases are not expanding in the chamber before the bullet completely enters the throat so there is not that build up of lead that often happens when shooting HBWC bullets in .357 chambers using .38 brass, not to mention improved accuracy due to not having the bullet deformed by the above mentioned issues.

 

[22/45 Fan]

OK, one question. How much "hotter" are 38/44 rounds than .38 Special +P?

 

[Onty]

Onty , I agree. I own 6 GP100`s but only one of them is a .38 Sp. When I saw that .38 was available,I jumped right on it even though I already had it`s duplicate chambered in .357. When I shoot .38 loads,I don`t want to have to dig crud out of the chambers and when shooting hollow base wad cutters,the bases are not expanding in the chamber before the bullet completely enters the throat so there is not that build up of lead that often happens when shooting HBWC bullets in .357 chambers using .38 brass, not to mention improved accuracy due to not having the bullet deformed by the above mentioned issues.

That is exactly my point. It is not just that bullet will be deformed when shooting 357 ammo after revolver was extensively shooting 38 Special, but pressure with full power 357ammo will go into dangerous zone.

If I want to shoot 38 and 44 Special ammo, I will always use 38 and 44 Special revolvers. In other words; for target shooting 357 and 44 Magnum, there are so many good target loads in both calibers that I do not see need for shooting Special ammo in Magnum revolvers.

 

[22/45 Fan]

That is exactly my point. It is not just that bullet will be deformed when shooting 357 ammo after revolver was extensively shooting 38 Special, but pressure with full power 357ammo will go into dangerous zone.

If I want to shoot 38 and 44 Special ammo, I will always use 38 and 44 Special revolvers. In other words; for target shooting 357 and 44 Magnum, there are so many good target loads in both calibers that I do not see need for shooting Special ammo in Magnum revolvers.

If you take a minute to use a bore or chamber brush to scrub the cylinder chambers, shooting .357 rounds after .38 Specials is no problem and no danger.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Onty , I agree. I own 6 GP100`s but only one of them is a .38 Sp. When I saw that .38 was available,I jumped right on it even though I already had it`s duplicate chambered in .357. When I shoot .38 loads,I don`t want to have to dig crud out of the chambers and when shooting hollow base wad cutters,the bases are not expanding in the chamber before the bullet completely enters the throat so there is not that build up of lead that often happens when shooting HBWC bullets in .357 chambers using .38 brass, not to mention improved accuracy due to not having the bullet deformed by the above mentioned issues.

That is exactly my point. It is not just that bullet will be deformed when shooting 357 ammo after revolver was extensively shooting 38 Special, but pressure with full power 357ammo will go into dangerous zone.

If I want to shoot 38 and 44 Special ammo, I will always use 38 and 44 Special revolvers. In other words; for target shooting 357 and 44 Magnum, there are so many good target loads in both calibers that I do not see need for shooting Special ammo in Magnum revolvers.

I can't agree at all. Whatever miniscule advantage in accuracy you get from shooting specials in a special gun won't be noticed by the average shooter, in fact because magnum guns are heavier they can usually be shot better with specials. I know I can shoot specials in my GP and SP and single-actions much better than magnum cartridges. I shoot lots of specials in my magnum guns and have never had the slightest problem.

The only disadvantage is that the carbon ring needs to be scrubbed out of the chambers after shooting specials in a magnum gun. ...a good rule of thumb to follow is when shooting mixed ammo, specials and magnums, shoot the magnums first and then shoot the specials followed by a though cleaning. Nuff said.