.38/357 with WC Bullets

[RUFFBIRD]

I would like to load both types of Wad-Cutter bullets for target & hunting small game with my new 77/357

I like the lee manual recipies but they don't say which bullet, DEWC or HBWC.
Should I just stick to the "start" loads for both types? I don't want to push the HBWC's to the same presure as the other type, & don't want to stick a bullet in the rifle barrel either.

I would like to use Red Dot, 231, & perhaps Universal powders....

For those of you who have fired both, can I pick your mind?

Thanks for any info you can send my way!

 

[WIL TERRY]

I have fired many tens of thousands of both in both cartridges through revolving and self loading pistols. With that noted for whatever it might be worth you may also note that you picked the worst chose of projectiles to shoot in a 38/357 rifle. In most [ NOT ALL..] carbines and rifles they do not feed for sour owl shiq. IF you are satisfied with having a bolt action single shot have at it. The loading data is the same as that for any handgun and chances are you will NOT have any real success with accuracy with serious load developement; that would be starting with 2.7GRS of most fast pistol propellents and working up to around 3.4grs. In EVERY pistol I ever shot the best load was always [ ALWAYS !!! ] 3.4grs BUT NOTE THIS CAREFULLY, every gun required a different propellent to shoot it's best x-ring destroying groups, and it was never close. I tested ten different propellents and 38 WC bullets in HBWC, SBWC, BNWC, DEWC,[ I think I am forgetting a couple...] in barrel lengths from 2" to 20", well over 10M rounds in these tests alone. The best propellent hands down was 452AA, now discontinued, the worst was UNIQUE and UNIVERSAL. That leaves you plenty to play with.
And so it goes...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

What is wrong with cast SWC bullets? They would work better in your rifle. Any mild load of medium burn rate powder (like Universal) will feel like a pop gun and should give you accuracy and take-down power. My personal prefference for sport shooting is a copper plated bullet (no leading) on top of a good load of Blue Dot or Accurate #9. For hunting I would recomend XTP's either 158 or 180gr and a full load of H-110 or #9.

 

[Tommy F]

I like 3 gr of W231 with WCs. If you are testing for accuracy, I think the above suggestions are good places to start.

 

[volshooter]

All my .38 wad cutters were loaded with Bullseye at the low end of the data. They all have shot outstanding.
Personally I find BBWC and HBWC more accurate at low velocities than the SWC.

 

[RUFFBIRD]

Thanks for your posts, I will certainly rethink my bullet choice for the rifle.
The WC's will be kept for the revolvers & I will load SWC's or RNFP bullets for the rifle.....

As far as those WC's go, slow sounds like the way to go especially with the hollow base type. Think I will try some with Red Dot powder starting with 2.7 grs in .357 brass...

Thanks again folks, I appreciate your thoughts!

Now to get to the range & fight the Blackflies.....

 

[PO2Hammer]

In carbines I really like full wadcutter (DEWC) seated long in magnum brass. Both plated (Berry's/Rainier) and cast (Penn) work very well for me and are laser accurate at 50 yards. I use 5 grains of Universal or SR 7625 and a COL of 1.430". Seated long, I think they might feed just fine in a 77/357.

 

[RUFFBIRD]

PO2Hammer,

Now that looks interesting, I'ma going to have to try them in my rifle. They look like they just might feed, & if they do will be a nice small game round....

I was thinking of a light crimp on those bullets, what's your thoughts?

Thanks for your post!

 

[PO2Hammer]

I use my Redding 'profile' crimp die, but set it for a light taper crimp. In a carbine there will be little recoil, so not much crimp is needed. Even in a revolver it doesn't take much crimp to keep the bullets from pulling forward with light DEWC loads.

I know guys who use a taper crimp die (Redding) for light .357 load with plated bullets.

Because they are seated long, it takes a little extra powder to get the same velocity as when they are seated flush with the case mouth. Sticking a bullet in the bore is a very real possibility, especially with plated bullets, so don't go below 4.5 grains of Universal. 5 grains is a very moderate load and probably a better starting point.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I use the Lee FCD (factory crimp die) and have very good luck with copper plated bullets. Be sure to chamfer and deburr the case mouth to reduce the possibility of cutting the plating. A light crimp done by feel is all that is needed. 8) 8)

 

[Thumbcocker]

A button nose wadcutter crimped in the groove will feed in most Marlins. I shot many Lyman 358495's over 4.9 of 231 in my pistols. Book velocity was1k but I never checked. Knocked the snot out of opossum sized critters.

 

[Tommy F]

I am thinking about trying a 357 case WC load, maybe start at 4.5 W231 for my Marlin and SWs.

 

[EDK]

SOME of the MARLIN lever actions will feed full wadcutters...my 357 will, but the 44 will not. Depending on how the feed mechanism is designed, your bolt action RUGER may feed the full wadcutters. Load some and try. You might have to tinker with over all length to get good functioning.

IF you're an old timer, you may remember HORROR STORIES about blowing up guns with low loads and hollow base wadcutters. The last I heard suggested that the skirt of the soft swaged wadcutter sometimes separated and got stuck in the barrel....and the next round KA-POW! Someone who worked at an indoor range volunteered info that he swept up the separated lead skirts off the floor in large quantities. That said, I use the hollow base wadcutter in 357 and 44, cast in MP-MOLDS by castboolits member and vendor MIHEC in Slovenia, in my assorted Original Size VAQUEROS. Wadcutters do a nice job of marking the targets.

My load in 357 brass is the MIHEC or 358432 or H&G 50 over 3.0 of TITEGROUP. The 44s get the MIHEC or 429352 clone or 200 grain LEE custom over 5.0 of TITEGROUP or HP38. Both of these rounds get a taper crimp.

 

[RUFFBIRD]

All my WC'er loads in .357 brass will be with DEWC's so no worries there about blown off skirts. I'll keep the skirts for the dance.... :lol:

So what I'm going to try is a DEWC seated out long, (1.500" COL), using a light-medium crimp with 5.0 grs of universal & some with 2.8 grs of Red-Dot powder & try them over the chrony, then tweek them to about 800 FPS.
Using the rifle should push a little faster....

I went with this COL as they will be crimped into the upper most grease groove. This bullet has 3 grease grooves & a crimp groove on either end...

I will get around to trying others that have a single grease groove, also with a crimp groove on either end & see if there is a difference....

Will take some pictures & update after the battery is charged.... :roll:

Should be interesting to see how this turns out!

Thanks again folks for your input. I always learn something from you guys...

 

[RUFFBIRD]

Here's a couple photo's of the bullets I'm going to load.

By the way, my prior post indicated 3 grease grooves on the one bullet there, when in fact there are only two......
Let's just say my arithmatic is bad sometimes. :roll:

 

[cworetired]

Those look great. Never tried that in my 357's only 38's. How about a range report when you have a chance to try them?

 

[sailorb]

A friend of mine bought a Marlin 1894 in .357/38. We tried some .38 spec hbwc in it and it jammed the thing up so bad it took an hour and a lot of cussing to clear it. I strongly suspect that guns that feed from a magazine need some sort of a bullet nose to make things work right. If you want to go that route, use a round nose or swc design bullet and they will work great and do the same thing.

 

[JSam]

Anybody have a good load for these with HS-6?