.358 Win "Pig Scout"

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glw3151

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
72
Hit the range today for a little trigger time with my "new .358 pig scout". No reloads today, just some Winchester 200 gr Silver Tips factory fodder. Got everything zeroed at 25yrds and set the target at 110yrds. First three shot group printed 1.142" and second three shot group printed .738". Very nice. Back to 25 yrds to check the irons. A little low and to the right. One adjustment and dead center at 25yrds. Set up at 50 yrds and she printed about 1'' high with a dead center 1.00" three shot group. Very pleased indeed. No chrony today so no velocity readings.
I did this conversion because a .308 does not really excite me. Nothing wrong with the round, just does not excite me. The idea of a gunsite scout as a .358 got the juices flowing. Pig rifle par excellence.
I was not particularly impressed with the rifle's accuracy as a .308. Despite my best work and multiple combinations, the best I could do was an average of 2.00" at 110yrds. Some groups were better and some were worse. Prior to the rebore, I had the rifle massaged by a known accuracy smith. He pillar and epoxy bedded the barreled action and worked the trigger over. The trigger is better and still not great. To be fair to the rifle design, I am confident Ruger did not intend the rifle to be a bench shooter. I fact, it is not a bench friendly design nor was it probably intended to be. The accuracy was fine for the rifle's intended design. Anyway, I felt that short, stiff barrel could do much better and the rifle be more of what I wanted.
I chose a 4 groove bore with 1-14 twist. I removed the flash hider. VERY IMPORTANT. I believe the hole in hider will not allow a .358" projectile to pass thru peacefully. I may be wrong, just a hunch. I replaced the hider with a thread protector purchased thru Midway USA.
I do not know the folks at JES Rebore. I chose JES because of the multiple, great reports I had seen on various forums. Turn around time was less than 2 weeks. Still have a grin on my face and I left the range three hrs ago. I welcome your thoughts and feedback.
 

1ruger

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
151
Sounds like an interesting rifle. My GSS shot 168gr Federal Gold Match and the cheap Federal 150gr SP from Walmart under 1" from 100 yards right out of the box. I've shot 5 other factory loads in this rifle and it does seem to be ammo sensitive as some would not group under 2". In last 9 months this rifle has accounted for over dozen hogs and only one required more than one shot. Actually in past few years majority of my hogs were harvested using my Marlin X7 in .243 Winchester shooting 100gr Winchester PSP ammo from Walmart...mostly as it's the rifle I keep in the work truck. It was used on the biggest hog (298 lb.) and longest one shot kill on a hog (132 lb. sow from 351 steps). Nowadays anything bigger than a 308 Win hurts me too much.

As my old man used to say when we were growing up, "it's the Indian, not the arrow".
 

Stump Buster

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
216
Location
N. California
Sounds like you turned a So/So shooter into a hunting MACHINE!

I'd be really hard pressed to not buy a GSR and do the EXACT same thing if I didn't already have my 358.

Glad to hear it's shooting well for ya and we'd all love to see a couple pics of the rifle WITH some hogs!



...or Deer or coyotes or squirrels or.....
 

dad11345

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
62
I am setting here scratching my head trying to understand why anyone would turn a 308 into a 358. Look at the ballistic coefficients of the 200 grain 308 (.556) vs the 220 grain 358 (.316). Starting velocities are both in the 2,400 ft. per sec range.
 

flcracker64

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
28
Location
Florida
dad11345 said:
I am setting here scratching my head trying to understand why anyone would turn a 308 into a 358.

Shoot similar-sized game with each caliber and you will understand.

Bang. Flop. Done.
 

J.Johnson

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
273
Location
Southwest Nebraska
dad11345 said:
I am setting here scratching my head trying to understand why anyone would turn a 308 into a 358. Look at the ballistic coefficients of the 200 grain 308 (.556) vs the 220 grain 358 (.316). Starting velocities are both in the 2,400 ft. per sec range.

I think glw said it best. "Pig rifle par excellence."

A lot more 'smack' than a 308. I never get to excited about paper ballistics because both will kill 'em just as dead!

I've been thinking myself that a 358 Winchester in a short, little rifle might make a dandy elk rifle.
 

dad11345

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
62
It is clear to me that we understand rifle caliber selection and performance differently. I don`t subscribe to the bang/flop/dead theory for any one caliber. This is especially so when they are almost identical cases.
 

glw3151

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
72
I think of the .308/ .358 performance difference like I think of the of the .30-06/ .35 Whelen performance difference.
 

dad11345

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
62
I could see comparing the 308 to the 30-06 and the 358 to the 35 Whelen. The bullet selections for the 308 and 30-06 are the same and so is the 358 and 35 Whelen.
 

Geoff Timm

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
238
Location
NE Florida
A few years back I would have thought a .30-30 or .35 Remington was good for hogs. Now, .358 looks better and better.
I've heard from at least two sources that some hogs have started acting like ambush predators. Be careful out there folks!
Geoff
Who will swear he saw a hog bigger than a black bear in the pan handle!
 

youngda99

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
4
First post :)

For those of you who don't quite understand the allure of the 358. Read these two articles.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/358Win_mystery.htm

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

Note, the velocities shown in the above articles are quite anemic to what you can achieve in a bolt action rifle. Remember, a rifle like a Ruger 77 has an action that handles much higher pressure cartridges that are in much larger diameter brass. Smaller 358 win brass leaves more metal around the cartridge in the chamber, which only serves to increase the strength of the action/chamber. Also, much of the 358 load data found is not loaded to max pressure data since this cartridge is found in some lever-guns that cannot handle near the pressure of a modern bolt gun.

See the following for higher velocities:
http://www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/Handloads%20That%20Work.pdf
".358 WINCHESTER: IMR-4895 is still
a good choice in this fine, little
"woods cartridge," but Ramshot
TAC has produced similar results
in my .358s, without the extreme
compression often necessary with
IMR-4895, and is temperaturestable
besides. My rifles like about
47.0 grains of TAC with 225-grain
bullets (2,350 to 2,500 fps, depending
on barrel length) and 45.0
grains with 250s (2,200 to 2,300
fps)."

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/80235-358-win-loading-data.html

John Barnsness published the below loads:
Handloader #254 - Ruger hawkeye
.358 Winchester; three-shot group dia.
Ramshot TAC w/ Fed 215 primers:
200 gr. Barnes TSX 52.0 gr. 2749 fps 1.15"
225 gr. Sierra GK 49.0 gr. 2552 fps 1.47"
250 gr. Hornady RN 48.0 gr. 2404 fps 0.95"
250 gr. Nosler Part. 48.0 gr. 2423 fps 1.44"
 

dad11345

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
62
When you post these kind of load and quote someone do not leave out there disclaimer!
 

youngda99

Bearcat
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
4
dad11345 said:
When you post these kind of load and quote someone do not leave out there disclaimer!
They've all been cited and source information or links provided. Not my loads, not my liability.
 

AkRay

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
171
Location
USA
glw3151, I've been thinking about the same conversion. I think it would make a great big game rifle. Do you mind sharing what the reboring cost?
 

AkRay

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
171
Location
USA
I just went to their site. Their prices seem to be very affordable.
 

glw3151

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
72
AkRay said:
glw3151, I've been thinking about the same conversion. I think it would make a great big game rifle. Do you mind sharing what the reboring cost?

Happy to share, I paid their advertised price of $250.00 which included return shipping. I sent the barreled action, less the rail and the flash hider.
Turnaround was less than two weeks. I opted for a four groove, 1-14 twist. I believe a three groove is a little less $$. I have only shot one load thru mine so far. That load was very accurate. I just ordered a Spec Tech replacement trigger. The trigger on my rifle is not as user friendly as I would like. I have a Leatherwood L.E.R. 2x7 scope with the mil dot reticle mounted in Warne, steel, Q.D. rings. Very happy with that combo. As I mentioned earlier, be aware of the flash hider. I do not think a .358 cal. projectile will fit thru comfortably. I replaced the flash hider with an EGW 5/8"-24 thread protector. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/276822/egw-ar-10-lr-308-muzzle-thread-protector-5-8-24-thread
Again, very happy with this rifle. If the Barnes 200gr TSX is a shooter,..... I will really have something special here.
 

PriseDeFer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
450
As someone with a 30/30 I've remained mystified but entranced by the tales of 35 Remington slugs out of Marlin saddle guns doing
quick and brutal work in the great eastern woodlands and mountains. Now you have made the modern bolt gun version of this Excalibur and you will walk in legends too.
 

dfletcher

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
921
Location
Leaving California .....
glw3151 said:
AkRay said:
glw3151, I've been thinking about the same conversion. I think it would make a great big game rifle. Do you mind sharing what the reboring cost?

Happy to share, I paid their advertised price of $250.00 which included return shipping. I sent the barreled action, less the rail and the flash hider.
Turnaround was less than two weeks. I opted for a four groove, 1-14 twist. I believe a three groove is a little less $$. I have only shot one load thru mine so far. That load was very accurate. I just ordered a Spec Tech replacement trigger. The trigger on my rifle is not as user friendly as I would like. I have a Leatherwood L.E.R. 2x7 scope with the mil dot reticle mounted in Warne, steel, Q.D. rings. Very happy with that combo. As I mentioned earlier, be aware of the flash hider. I do not think a .358 cal. projectile will fit thru comfortably. I replaced the flash hider with an EGW 5/8"-24 thread protector. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/276822/egw-ar-10-lr-308-muzzle-thread-protector-5-8-24-thread
Again, very happy with this rifle. If the Barnes 200gr TSX is a shooter,..... I will really have something special here.

I think this is quite the near set up. I've always had a liking for the "about 35 caliber" rifles and shoot 348 Winchester, 9.3 Mauser, some 35 Remingtons too. My GSR shoots great as is, far better than I'd ever imagine, otherwise I'd give this a go. Have you considered a custom made brake for yours? Getting one done up to accomodate a .358 projectile but keeping the factory threading isn't that difficult.

BTW, I've accidentally done the "live fire swaging down" and it sure messes up your groups ......
 
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