357 mag full wadcutter for hunting?

[hammeredbean]

I was considering buying some wadcutters. The factory TC bullets I've used work great so why not a magnum wadcutter? I am not talking about hollow base soft alloy bullets that can blow their skirts off. I see that most are 148gr but found a Rimrock wadcutter bullet that is 155gr in their standard alloy. I think starting at 13ish gr of 2400 working up to 14 max would be about right. Has anyone tried this or have I drank some stale coffee?

I'd appreciate anyone who has experimented with this to chime in with advice.

 

[PO2Hammer]

For small and medium game, why not?
I have data for cast DEWC that goes up to 1200 fps in .357.

 

[98Redline]

No personal experience but the general thought is that there is a optimum meplat percentage (I believe around 70% of caliber) that balances the terminal ballistics with accuracy.

Too much meplat puts too much weight forward and causes the bullet to behave erratically in flight. I have also read that if the meplat is overly large it can cause the bullet to veer or tumble rather than drive straight through the animal.

I think that if there was some massive upshot to a full wadcutter hunting bullet that most of the manufacturers would offer something along those lines. Looking around there are lots of the WFN profile bullets with meplats in the 70% range but very...very few full wadcutters designed to be driven at magnum velocities. Not being able to research it myself to any appreciable degree, I would defer to the fact that if there were a better mousetrap with respect to cast bullet design, I am sure that it would be the most prevalent type in the industry (i.e. WFN hard cast bullets).

For small game, I have heard of people using wadcutters, and even using a HBWC and seating it backwards, but those are relatively short shots with low to moderate velocity.

 

[John S]

I have a 77/357 rifle and it don't like the SWC. SWC are .358" D , my rifle wit shoot .357" down to .355" D bullet with accuracy.

 

[Rick Courtright]

For small and medium game, why not?
I have data for cast DEWC that goes up to 1200 fps in .357.

Hi,

Have never used full WCs for hunting, but have read many accounts over the years of folks successfully using them for small game up to 50 yds or so. Personal experience w/ full WCs loaded to velocities a bit lower than that 1200 fps figure is they run out of steam pretty quickly "out there" when all we're doing is killing cans set up from 25-100 yds.

Rick C

 

[Jim Puke]

Too much meplat puts too much weight forward and causes the bullet to behave erratically in flight.

There is no problem with full wadcutter accuracy...they have been one of the main bullets of choice for bullseye competition for years.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I don't hunt yet but given a choice I think I would go with a proven 'hunting' bullet, of which there are plenty.

 

[GP100man]

For short range they`re fine, but most shed velocity qwikly & start to keyhole/tumble between 50-60 yds.

Kinda like throwing a brick in a perfect spiral , ya can do it but it`ll start to wobble !

 

[AGE Ranger]

I never used them for hunting; but I don't see why a full wadcutter wouldn't work.

 

[stevemb]

Matt's Bullets shows FWC's up to 165gr in 38/357. Sadly, he also now shows a 4 month wait ! stevemb

 

[anachronism]

Lyman actually shows magnum loads for 357 wadcutters in the third edition of the "Cast Bullet Handbook". While they don't show a 155 gr WC, they do show a 141 gr, with a starting load of 10.5 gr of 2400, and it maxes mout at 14.6 gr. Obviously you would need to make adjustments for your heavier bullet. Personally, I'd go ahead and do my load development and see how everything works out. Your 13.0 load appears to be safe, but it's up to you to establish the safety of your load. I wouldn't worry much about a wadcutter leaving the barrel at 12-1300 FPS destabilizing at 50 yards, but it's yet another part of load development, and you would find out rather early in your development what your practical limits are. You can also search out Lyman data from the '50s for 358432 wadcutters, they were available in a heavy version that weighed 160 gr. It's an interesting bullet, more like a SWC with a really short nose.

 

[hammeredbean]

Thanks for all of the input. Range won't limit me if I decide to go forward with warm loaded wadcutters. My longest whitetail shots were 30 yds and for now that is as far as my proficiency will allow me this year. It seems like a logical concept as most bullet makers seem to try to maximize meplat for their hunting loads..... I wonder if the reduction in meplat from bullet designers is because of tumbling at "xx" range or some other reason. After thinking on it last night I did some extensive reading on Veral Smith's (LBT Bullets) website. The amount of effort and research he has done is astounding. His WFN 180 357 mold looks like a winner and seems to offer the maximum meplat he feels possible.

Just to add to the conversation on another tangent....up until now I have shot all of my deer with factory loaded federal 158 jsp's. This is a soft point truncated cone design. It is odd that the exit holes in all of the deer have been nice clean holes that I could wriggle my pinky finger into. This is what got me to thinking about full wadcutters...if a TC can do that, how much better would a wadcutter be? Also, another point of conversation that is totally irrelevant....my brother and I shot into dirt with a 38spl jframe snubbie. The bullet was hornandy swagged lead (really soft) moving pretty slow and it burried up 5-6" in the ground and made the prettiest mushroom you have ever seen. Sorry for rambling. My coffee grinder has been humming again. Once again thanks for the input.

 

[357Nut]

For short range they`re fine, but most shed velocity qwikly & start to keyhole/tumble between 50-60 yds.

Kinda like throwing a brick in a perfect spiral , ya can do it but it`ll start to wobble !

My experience mirrors GP100man's.

 

[volshooter]

Under 50yds. they are fine game getters. I only speak from the .38spc. I have taken deer at 25-30 yds with excellent results. Accuracy is more important than power.

"most game falls to the lowly .22"

 

[Cholo]

I come from the old: If it can't be done with Bullseye, Unique, and 2400... Lots of old myths have fallen by the wayside. I use nothing but WC's in all my .38's. I've always believed that past 50 yds. a WC is not your best choice for whatever reason. Bottom line, truth or myth?

 

[anachronism]

Here's more for you to peruse.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html

 

[GP100man]

Why the big deal on HOLE size ???

As long as ya punch the air bags & 2 holes are suckin wind ,you`ll find ya deer !

Less meat damage is the point I`m saying !

I ruined a whole shoulder once with a 140gr. sierra gamegetter with all the #9AA I dared to put under it , the deer was at 7yds.

Now it`s 357429s or NOEs 360-180 solid points, 1 hole in ,1 hole out , any angle ya wanna shoot from !

But , I`ll say within your range a wadcutter WILL knock a deer down as good as any other design IF the velocity is there & placement is good.

GP

 

[hammeredbean]

The "Full Wadcutter" article was a good read! I wasn't previously aware of NOE bullet molds. I really like their website. All this makes me conclude that I will get some 148-155 gr wadcutters to try out. I'll start out mild and climb up to warm and see where accuracy and range begin to bicker. And also, I will add bullet casting to my short list of things to learn. I think I will end up with one of the NOE or LBT molds. But that ugly duckling full wadcutter intrigues me. I also saw a 100 gr wadcutter people are using a puff of Bullseye with...I have a six year old who might could appreciate that The way prices are now with ammo I can almost load 38 cheaper than buying 22!

 

[PO2Hammer]

I don't know if they are enough for deer, I thought you were talking about smaller critters. I would only use a jacketed hollow point or LSWC-HP at full power for deer.

 

[rburke]

:mrgreen: My wife shoots a Thompson G2, 9" barrel in .357 mag. We shoot out to 100yds using
home swaged 205 grain jacketed bullets. These are made using Corbin equipment with the button nose punch. These bullets are long full wadcutter style. Most use 16.5 grains of H4198.
A 165 grain version of the same load uses Power Pistol at 8 grains. Many of the 50 yard groups
are under one inch. I have never seen any unstable shots even at 100 yds. Much of the writings
about full wadcutter shooting is simply NOT true. There is one exception... the very light loads with BE powder.. 2.7 grains say, are probably tumbling beyond 25 yds. My gun, same as my wifes but in .45 auto Rim but 9.5" barrel shoots up to 270 grain button nose mostly at 50 yds
no problem. Think a moment, a deer at 100 yds gets smacked with a 205gr .357 wadcutter pushed with up to 17.0 grains of H4198. Don't think he's going far. These loads are real attention
getters at our local range.

 

[WESHOOT2]

A hole that passes through is good, but I still prefer the 180g S-JHP Remington bullet from my 357 Magnums......it WILL expand, and its weight and sectional density often allow it, too, to make a pass-through.......

 

[hammeredbean]

I have enjoyed hearing everyone's opinions. I will certainly experiment with WC loads in the future and see how much umph they will allow. All I have to load right now are Xtreme SWC plated bullets. So far I am up to 13.4gr of 2400 and 8.2 gr Power Pistol. I don't have anything to write home about yet. I will note that Power Pistol is quite snappy. 8.5 is max and 8.0 has potential for accuracy. 13.gr of 2400 was a good group but a mild load. I hope that the groups tighten up closer to 14 gr. I will eventually reach the limit of the double struck plated bullet. I have already told my bride that an LBT mold would be a good Christmas present.

 

[WIL TERRY]

I THINK I'LL NOTE THIS HERE: There is a famous gunwriter who swore me to secrecy who took the largest buck of his career with a 38SPL wadcutter through the lungs. Killed him deader than canned tuna. Deer are easy to kill as they're about as tough as a bag of air and cheese.

 

[mr surveyor]

I THINK I'LL NOTE THIS HERE: There is a famous gunwriter who swore me to secrecy who took the largest buck of his career with a 38SPL wadcutter through the lungs. Killed him deader than canned tuna. Deer are easy to kill as they're about as tough as a bag of air and cheese.

I like that

 

[Rodfac]

Years ago, I had good accuracy out to 50 yds or so with DEWC's from my casting efforts, but leading became a problem if I pushed the velocity much at all. I've learned a lot since those early days regarding sizing and lubes, so maybe that's a solvable problem. But for accuracy that's comparable, and velocity up to 1200 fps, a well sized and lubed LSWC does the same trick and doesn't lead up my forcing cone nor the bbl. It's got the same square shouldered design, but is better in most regards. Best Regards, Rod

 

[anachronism]

I seem to remember Chuck Taylor taking a deer at 25 yards with a 38 wadcutter too. He was famous for really wringing out handgun/ammo combinations to the final decimal. He would carry and test a gun for an extended length of time, a year IIRC. I remember his tests almost always included a deer hunt. I though he was nuts when he took a deer with a Glock 17, one of the first ones in the country. The man could really turn out an article.

 

[hammeredbean]

Why the big deal on HOLE size ???

As long as ya punch the air bags & 2 holes are suckin wind ,you`ll find ya deer !

Less meat damage is the point I`m saying !

I ruined a whole shoulder once with a 140gr. sierra gamegetter with all the #9AA I dared to put under it , the deer was at 7yds.

Now it`s 357429s or NOEs 360-180 solid points, 1 hole in ,1 hole out , any angle ya wanna shoot from !

But , I`ll say within your range a wadcutter WILL knock a deer down as good as any other design IF the velocity is there & placement is good.

GP

If you don't mind me asking, what load do you use with that 360-180 from NOE? Since I posted this I have been looking at that bullet as well as the 180gr MP mold.

 

[Paul B]

I did some limited work along these lines many years ago when I lived in California. I got decent accuracy out to about 30 yards, give or take but when I tried for more speed, bullets became erratic and lots of keyholing.
One day while at a gun show, I came across an interesting bullet mold; a Lyman #429352, nominally a 245 gr. wadcutter in .44 caliber. I didn't even know such a thing existed. :shock: I loaded up a few in.44 Spl. brass and the very first shot killed my chronograph. To this day I don't know ow that happened as my hold on the rest was good and my sight picture at the shot was right on. I don't even remember the load. If you have the Second Edition Lyman cast bullet manual, there is a picture on page 226, bottom row third bullet on the left.
Reading Ed Harris' article brought that long ago work to mind only I have to wonder how that 250 gr. (in my alloy) wadcutter would work at maybe 900 to 950 FPS in a .44 magnum.In my neck of the desert where one might encounter critter with teeth, claws and some with tusks, I believe I'd feel more comfortable with the bullet hole of the .44 and the bigger hole. Still should work just fine on smaller game as well. My shortest barreled .44 Mag. is a Ruger Super Blackhawk with a Blackhawk frame and Bisley hammer. Barrel length is 4 5/8". Handy to carry but brutal as hell with my full power cast bullet loads. It might be more comfortable with the Bisley grip and frame.
DAMN! As if I didn't have enough projects in the loop. Gonna have to think long and hard on this one.
Paul B.