243 Winchester

[Cary]

I recently inherited a Ruger M77 MII in 243 Win from my father-in-law after his death the first part of this month. I've never owned one or even shot one. I do have several lever guns and revolvers I shoot and reload for. The gun came with a stash of ammo (new and his reloads) and I will be using that up before I get into reloading for it. I trust his reloading habits and will make note of how the different loads he loaded up for it perform on paper. I have started to gather information on the 243 and thought I would throw a hook out to you guys and see what I could gather from you on the subject. I wasn't sure where to place this to get the best response so if it should be moved to the reloading section then so be it moderators. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand the 243 as being good for deer size game or smaller. I would be interested in what bullet/powder combinations are working for you when you target shoot, varmit shoot, plink, or deer hunt with it. I understand if you do not want to share any powder charge weights here. It will probably be a while before I ever reload a round for this gun but I wanted to start getting educated on this caliber. Thanks for any input you can give me on this.
Cary

 

[Quarterbore]

The 243 is a great round and it excels in a nitch of a duel purpose varmint/deer rifle. For varmints, the little 55gr Nosler Ballistic tips can be pushed at 4,000 fps and the faster that bullet is moving the less effect gravety and wind has. There are few rounds are better for long range varmint hunting. I have not reloaded teh 243 in quite a while so I don't recall what powders I was using back when I did load.

For deer, the 243 is very adequate and modern bullets make it a lethal choice for even large deer. I would not want to use a 243 for Elk but I know that a few people do use them for Cow Elk. I used ederal Premium ammo for big game as I never shot enough to worry about reloading a big game load.

The 243 is a great round, they tend to be very accurate, and you can find ammo just about anywhere.

Good Luck!

 

[6mmsl]

Love mine- and my 6mm too.

I only shoot factory loads so no help there -I shoot 95-100 grain anything in Federal.

Killed plenty of varmint/predator and one deer that dropped in his tracks at 125 yards.

 

[Cary]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was curious as to how the 55 gr. bullets shot in this caliber. Once I start shooting the gun I will have a chance to see what it prefers. His reloads are assembled with 70 gr. -105 gr. bullets with several different sizes between those two values. No 55 gr. bullets loaded though. The factory stuff is Remington with 80 gr. and 100 gr. bullets loaded. It has been too wet, too cold, too windy, or too much snow to be able to get out and do some shooting here . We are due for a dry spell so I hope I will be able to get out.
Cary

 

[Greg Mercurio]

Cary: I just started relading for my No. 1 in .243 Win. So far IMR4350, H4350 and H100V have been tried with 85 and 90 grain bullets. Since the sample is small, my initial observations are that the rifle likes a narrow band of charge weights in all 3 powders, with sub .5" groups at the just above min charge and at near max charge weights. What's in between are lots of 1-2 inch gropus. It's great to see a 3 shot hole but discouraging to go to the next set and see it open up to 2". Very peculiar but it's consistent across the 3 powders. Next few weeks will find another 2-3 powders for a more robust sample.

I have 5 of these fine rifles and all of them are very accurate with the right loads, this one is just telling me it's not going to be an easy date. :lol:

 

[sp]

The .243 Win is probably one of the most popular rounds ever produced. It will zap varmints with light weight bullets - 55, 58, 65, 70, 75 grains at speeds between 3400 to 4000 fps. It will kill deer with 80 to 100 grain bullets at speeds between 2900 to 3200 fps. Certain .243's having fast twist barrels 1-7, 1-8 & 1-9 (sort of long and heavy, not your standard 22 inch sporter barrel) will perform well up to 1000 yards with 105 to 115 grain bullets. Reloading manuals show a great variety of powders.

My favorite loads are the .243 105gr Hornady AMax with Ramshot Magnum, and the .243 87gr Hornady VMax with Ramshot Hunter. H4350 is a good powder and 85-87 grain bullets are good to start with.

 

[Tensaw]

Cary,

Here is a Ruger M77 .243 deer. I think you are going to like the .243

 

[Cary]

Thanks for your input guys. When this thread has run the couse I will make some notes for future reference.
Cary

 

[sp]

Great photo Tensaw!!! A great photo is worth many words.

It looks like a warm day with all those green leaves.

I just enjoy seeing the youth of America hunt and slay deer with all sort of rifles -- a large number of which are .243's.

When ever I hunt anything over 50 pounds with the .243 I use Barnes triple shock bullets -- 85 grains @ about 3200 fps. They also work real good on coyotes but are pricey. A box of 50 will kill lots of deer and coyotes.

 

[picketpin]

I personally have not run across a single .243 caliber cartridge that shoots the 55 grain bullets as well (accurately) as 70s. I bought several boxes of the 55s when they came out. You can drive them fast. That being said npthing seemed to prefer them.

I've tried the 55 grain bullets with varous powders in 6mm PPC, 6mm BR, 243 Win, 6mm Rem, 240 Weatherby and 6mm-284 and every one of those riflesl shot 70s better. TI tend to think of the 55s as a gimick/stunt.

The 243 is bore balanced. Given that powders in the medium burn rates and bullet from 70-105 tend to work well.

A 90/95/100/105 from any of the major or custom makers are made to function on game and do so well up to deer. The 243 has killed elk but I would think most people would consider it a bit light for that job, I do.

RWT

 

[Cary]

I personally have not run across a single .243 caliber cartridge that shoots the 55 grain bullets as well (accurately) as 70s. I bought several boxes of the 55s when they came out. You can drive them fast. That being said npthing seemed to prefer them.

I've tried the 55 grain bullets with varous powders in 6mm PPC, 6mm BR, 243 Win, 6mm Rem, 240 Weatherby and 6mm-284 and every one of those riflesl shot 70s better. TI tend to think of the 55s as a gimick/stunt.

The 243 is bore balanced. Given that powders in the medium burn rates and bullet from 70-105 tend to work well.

A 90/95/100/105 from any of the major or custom makers are made to function on game and do so well up to deer. The 243 has killed elk but I would think most people would consider it a bit light for that job, I do.

RWT

Thanks for that information. I don't want to disagree with anyone who has posted already but most calibers were designed to operate within a range of bullet weights. I was wondering what weight of bullet the .243 was designed around. The Ruger I have has a 1:9 twist in the barrel. The reloaded ammo my now passed father-in-law had loaded up to give to me with the gun has from 70 gr. to 105 gr. bullets. There are several different weights of bullets within that range as well (75, 80, 100). I don't know if he ever tried the 55 gr. bullets in this gun or not and he did not keep a load note book for me to check. As for now I plan to take notes as I shoot through the stash of reloaded ammo he assembled for the gun.

RWT, what are some powders you have used in your loads with success?
Cary

 

[Quarterbore]

My Remingtonm 700 VLS has the 26-inch barrel and with 55gr Nosler Ballstic Tips I get under 1-inch groups at 100-yards. My gun loves them, I have not loaded in at least 7 years so to be honest I don't remember the load I was using. The disadvantage of the load is it will be tough on a barrel to hot rod a lot of ammo but then again I had always wanted to rebarrel it to 308 but the darned thing still shoots too good to justify pulling the barrel.

 

[Tensaw]

Great photo Tensaw!!! A great photo is worth many words.

It looks like a warm day with all those green leaves.

I just enjoy seeing the youth of America hunt and slay deer with all sort of rifles -- a large number of which are .243's.

When ever I hunt anything over 50 pounds with the .243 I use Barnes triple shock bullets -- 85 grains @ about 3200 fps. They also work real good on coyotes but are pricey. A box of 50 will kill lots of deer and coyotes.

Thanks SP. Picture was taken two seasons ago at the end of January. Green leaves are ivy growing on the skinning shed. It stays green all year. This was my son's first deer - in the stand 10 minutes and this nice deer walks in at 17 yards. He didn't walk out.

My .243 doesn't like the 55 grain bullets near as much as the 100 grain. So I'm sticking with 100 for both deer and coyotes.

 

[rangerbob]

I've been reloading since 1967, but the 243 has never appealed to me. I have loaded it for others, some with the old M100 Winchester auto. AA 3100 has worked well for that with 100 gr. bullets. Picketpin was right on about the 100 grain + or - bullets for deer hunting. I often use the 100 gr. Hornady Spire point seated to the cannelure. The 243 was introduced in the mid 50's as a combo varmint/deer round. It found favor with youths, ladies, and anyone else that wanted a low recoil rifle. I prefer the 25 or 6.5mm's for a light deer rifle and the 223 if I varmint hunted. Reloading for the 243 is as straightforward as it gets will get the job done. Bob :wink:

 

[Yosemite Sam]

My Savage 12BVSS loves the 55gr Noslers as well. It also likes the 95gr Noslers and 70gr Sierra Match King. I've had best luck with 3031 and 4350 powders.

I find it an exceptionally versatile caliber and may consider getting a lighter rifle in the same caliber for hunting anything up to the local black tail deer.

I see a lot of folks (not here) denigrating the caliber, saying it's too light for anything serious, something for a kid to learn on, whatever. Don't believe this for a minute. I don't think I'd try to take an elk with one, but its plenty for most game, and the 6mm bullet is great for targets, too. The fact that it has minimal recoil just makes it all that more enjoyable to shoot. IMO, of course.

-- Sam

 

[Cary]

I'm keeping up with all of your posts guys. If you have input on this jump right in. Thanks for the input thus far.
Cary

 

[picketpin]

The 243 Winchester and the 244 Remington were introduced in 1955.

The 243 is simply the 308 necked to .243 with no other changes. The 244 was simply the 7x57/257 Roberts necked to .243 but with the shoulder angle changed from 21 degrees to a sharper 28 degrees.

When introduced Winchesters thought of the 243 being a true dual purpose varmint/deer cartridge. Because of that they introduced the 243 with a 1:10 barrel twist. It was designed to stabilize bullets from the 70 grain varmint bullets up through the 90/95 grain hunting bullets of the day.

Remington on the other hand thought of the 6mm Remington as a deer rifle with occasional use on varmints. Because of that it was introduced with a 1:14 barrel twist, in order to stabilize the heavier hunting bullets. 90-105 grains It did in fact do that but it drew bad press because it wouldn't shoot the 70s as well or at least the gun writers of the era asserted that. I'm not sure how much of that was just BS/ pen whipping it because I own an original 244 and it will shoot 70s sub MOA.

Remington responded by by re-naming the cartridge the 6mm Remington and changing the the twist rate of the barrels to compromise between the varmint and hunting bullets.

For all practical they are essentually the same though you can get a little more velocity out of a 6mm Remington with a 100 grain bullet as you can a 243. Whether that 100+ fps is a significant difference is a matter of personal choice.

I do remember a RIFLE article some years ago regarding the 243 Ackley Improved. A reader had re chambered his 243 to improved and throated it etc and asked Ken Waters what he thought?? Waters response was "Why didn't you just buy a 6mm Remington to start with"??
Just depends on what that last 100 fps is worth to you in time , money and trouble.

One has to remember that at the time these were introduced there were no other standard CF true varmint cartridge other than the 22 Hornet or the 220 Swift.

They were designed to compete directly with the 250-3000 and the 257 Roberts, which were there reineing dual purpose cartridges in post WWII

The 55 grain Noslers are a fairly recent introduction and to me not a very good bullet. Yes you can drive them fast. On the other hand the 17 Remington and the 204 Ruger drive a 30 grain bullet and a 35 grain bullet at the same 400 fps with less recoil. If there is ANYTHING with a lower BC than the 30 grain 17 caliber bullet or the 35 grain .20 caliber bullet, it's the 55 grain .243. I still have a full box of the first two I ever bought. ;-) I guess I own enough rifles that I have stuff that was designed around shooting varmints at 4000 fps, with less recoil and powder use so I just don't bother to try to make the 243 use this bullet.

Sort of like you can shoot 180/200s in a 338 but why bother. The same weight bullet in a 30 caliber mag 30-338, 300 Win Mag etc. can be driven as fast with a higher ballistic coefficient...........................

As to powders, I would use IMR 4350 or a powder with similar burn rate as a starting point and go to slower powders as I headed towards heavier bullets and slightly faster powders if shooting lighter bullets.

My very best heavy bullet (105) hunting load with the 243 that I have worked up actually uses IMR7828 which is a very slow powder. It just happens to work best in my #1 "B".

I do in fact own some 243s and have killed stuff over the years using it but tend to shoot the 6mm Remington more and actually use the 6mm-284 and a 240 Weatherby for hunting antelope/deer more than the 243/6mm for the last 25 years.

Nothing wrong and a lot right with the 243.

Ross

 

[rangerbob]

Ditto. The only thing Picketpin failed to mention was that the 243 was introduced in the very attractive(1955 standards) M70 and the 244 came out in the less that pretty 722 Remington( I love 722's). Of the two, I have to side with Ken Waters with the 6mm. My neighbor, a dedicated deer hunter, tried the 6mm for a while, but it proved unsatisfactory for him. Now he uses a 7x57 or 7-08( both 700 Mountain Rifles) with unfailing results with his handloads. Bob!

 

[Cary]

Thanks for the addtional information guys. I'm always interested in the history behind a particular caliber as well.
picketpin, you look to live in the same neck of the woods as me.
Cary

 

[picketpin]

Cary: Sort of. ;-) I live smack dab in the middle of Owyhee County
It's actually closer to Elko, NV than it is to Boise. According to the VA when they pay my mileage into the the VA Hospital in Boise and back it 374 miles round trip from here to Boise and back.

The best

RWT

 

[Silent Sam]

I have found the 243 can be a bit "peaky" pressure wise depending on what components you are using and as mentioned once you get out of the "sweet spot(s)" groups can open up considerably. I also don't have any use for 55gr bullets in the 243. You can push them really fast but IMO that weight is better served in a 22 caliber. I have had good luck with 95gr Partitions and 85gr Triple Shocks. I only load mine for whitetails and haven't really worked up any lighter bullet varmint loads but if I did it would be in the 70-75gr range.

 

[mikee243]

I use a M77 mk2 in .243w for all my deer stalking and fox shooting here in the UK, with 75gn v-max powerd by **gn of varget its deadly out to way beyond the distances I will shoot at, I have in the past shot them out to about 400yds and the effect is messy, for deer stalking I use 100gn sierra gamekings over a slightly higher than max load of H414 and have killed deer from 30lb muntjac to 400lb+ Red stags, with the big animals you must ensure that you dont hit the large shoulder bones as the lightly constructed bullets wont penetrate to the vitals, not an issue with smaller deer, I limit the distance on large beast to about 150-160yds and about 300yds on the smaller deer species, I also use the same rifle at the range out to 600yds and it shoots about MOA with matchkings but due to the present shortage of primers in th uk i am using fiocci factory ammo with 95gn SST and cant get any better than about 1.5 MOA, I love my 243 and cant see me getting another deer caliber in the near future anyway, you'll love it too

mike

 

[Cary]

I use a M77 mk2 in .243w for all my deer stalking and fox shooting here in the UK, with 75gn v-max powerd by **gn of varget its deadly out to way beyond the distances I will shoot at, I have in the past shot them out to about 400yds and the effect is messy, for deer stalking I use 100gn sierra gamekings over a slightly higher than max load of H414 and have killed deer from 30lb muntjac to 400lb+ Red stags, with the big animals you must ensure that you dont hit the large shoulder bones as the lightly constructed bullets wont penetrate to the vitals, not an issue with smaller deer, I limit the distance on large beast to about 150-160yds and about 300yds on the smaller deer species, I also use the same rifle at the range out to 600yds and it shoots about MOA with matchkings but due to the present shortage of primers in th uk i am using fiocci factory ammo with 95gn SST and cant get any better than about 1.5 MOA, I love my 243 and cant see me getting another deer caliber in the near future anyway, you'll love it too.


mike

Thanks for your input on the 243. I have both of those powders already on hand so I could very easily use them when I get to reloading for this gun.
Cary

 

[Bucks Owin]

Ditto. The only thing Picketpin failed to mention was that the 243 was introduced in the very attractive(1955 standards) M70 and the 244 came out in the less that pretty 722 Remington. Bob!

Not to mention, most of the M70s tested along with the new cartridge were astonishingly accurate. My 1959 FEATHERWEIGHT has fired many 1/2 MOA groups with 60-75 gr bullets, and the gunwriters of the day found like performance, generally -1" :wink: