2 Dozen FTF With Winchester White Box!?!

[seniorxj]

I have over 1100 rounds thru my Ruger SR9 & I've ran 5 or so brands from the cheapest to decent & not a single problem. Bought a 100 round box of Winchester white box ammo for the 1st time & were talking 2 dozen FTF with 9 taking a 2nd strike, 4 taking 3 strikes, 3 taking 4 strikes, & the range master grabbed 4 of them, (not sure what he used), but all 4 went down range & rapidly!

First thought, light strike issue, but with a clean gun & over 1100 rounds thru it? Second thought, my SR9 doesn't like Winchester White box ammo, Period! I asked several people if this was myth or truth & everyone has had particular issues with specific brands & most explaining that its probably the type of primers used. The weirdest part, a quick field strip & its the cleanest I've ever seen after 100 rounds down range. Hell, even most the grease was still red in color!!

So is this myth, is it truth, or should I go grab ammo that I've used before without flaw & run em thru her as a deciding factor? (I'm just so disappointed right now)...

 

[gramps]

Yep, I would buy what works. Some guns are like that. I had a S&W 4506 that was real picky about what ammo it liked. Good luck.
gramps

 

[websterz]

I had light strikes with my SR9 until I polished the striker body and channel. A little elbow grease and Mother's Mag Polish had it shining like a mirror and no more problems.

 

[GunnyGene]

Havn't had any problems with WWB in my SR9E. Cheap target ammo, but shoots ok.

 

[pjvrefugee]

removed mag disconnect and all lite strikes vanished for me. never returned. thousands later and pistol runs perfectly. this has worked on two other SR9's that I gifted to two family members. I do not like that "safety" feature anyway. it is to me counterproductive. I do not wish to have any feature that turns my loaded weapon into a rock. accidently bumped the mag release once, mag was in but not latched. thank God I didn't need it and discovered the issue.

 

[GunnyGene]

removed mag disconnect and all lite strikes vanished for me. never returned. thousands later and pistol runs perfectly. this has worked on two other SR9's that I gifted to two family members. I do not like that "safety" feature anyway. it is to me counterproductive. I do not wish to have any feature that turns my loaded weapon into a rock. accidently bumped the mag release once, mag was in but not latched. thank God I didn't need it and discovered the issue.

I've done that with all my semi-autos that had one (2 Rugers and a Sig). Easy to do and avoids future complications at inopportune times. Unfortunately, there are also some revolvers that have similar "safety" features that aren't quite so easy to disable. I don't have such a lawyered up 6 gun, and have no intention to buy one either.

That said, I don't see the issue going away, and in fact it will probably get worse if the anti's get their way (so called "smart guns" are one example). :roll:

 

[blume357]

But oddly enough Ruger came out with the LC9s pro. Goes totally against the 'everything is getting lawyered up' theory. Not only no safety, but no mag. disconnect and on top of that a light and easy trigger pull.

 

[revhigh]

Although WWB is garbage ... Especially from an accuracy POV ... It usually goes BANG in any gun. Obviously ... I'd try other proven ammo and see if the problem persists ... If it does ... It's the gun. If it doesn't ... It's the ammo.

Not really that hard to debug this issue.

REV

 

[Rabon]

Your gun has a problem, find and correct it.

 

[revhigh]

I have over 1100 rounds thru my Ruger SR9 & I've ran 5 or so brands from the cheapest to decent & not a single problem. Bought a 100 round box of Winchester white box ammo for the 1st time & were talking 2 dozen FTF with 9 taking a 2nd strike, 4 taking 3 strikes, 3 taking 4 strikes, & the range master grabbed 4 of them, (not sure what he used), but all 4 went down range & rapidly!

First thought, light strike issue, but with a clean gun & over 1100 rounds thru it? Second thought, my SR9 doesn't like Winchester White box ammo, Period! I asked several people if this was myth or truth & everyone has had particular issues with specific brands & most explaining that its probably the type of primers used. The weirdest part, a quick field strip & its the cleanest I've ever seen after 100 rounds down range. Hell, even most the grease was still red in color!!

So is this myth, is it truth, or should I go grab ammo that I've used before without flaw & run em thru her as a deciding factor? (I'm just so disappointed right now)...

I'd clean the GREASE out of that gun, oil it properly, and try it again.

REV

 

[seniorxj]

Some more info:
The gun was detail stripped & clean after the first 100 rounds.
Mag safety was removed.
Every upgrade from Galloway precision is in it.
Everything that can or should be polished has been done.
I only grease the slide & barrel with Slide Glide.
I clean her every time before shooting a never used brand.
The striker body gets 1 drop of oil, rubbed in & wiped off leaving only a thin layer. I don't oil the striker spring inside.
All polishing including the stainless striker & striker body was done by me & everything was documented.
I took pics of all the work done above & can compare them to the striker now & there's no damage at all.

For reference, these 2 threads below were very helpful guides & I did most of what said in them:
RugerForum.com ? View topic - SR9 How-To (Multiple Inside) - Video Links Removed
RugerForum.com ? View topic - SR9/SR9c/SR40 Modifications and Accessories

I'm gonna go buy another 100 rounds of a brand I've used before & put em all down range as fast as the range will allow. With 6 mags holding 17 a pop, i'll be able to send another 100 rounds down range with 2 to spare. I've done this torture test before with great success. I may take a pause mid way, but either or, i'll find out if its my gun or the ammo!!

 

[WAYNO]

Although not considered premium ammo, WWB works in any gun I own that will fire any other ammo. If it's the only cartridge your gun will not shoot, assuming this ammo fires in other guns, I'd suspect you have an extremely borderline primer strike, and the (possibly) harder primer on the WWB ammo, or a minuscule difference in primer seating depth, or even brass at the shortest acceptable length but within tolerance but still affecting headspacing, could be any of the straws that would break the camels back, so to speak.

And for the record, I've bought ammo in different calibers, from different manufacturers, that there was an issue with a specific batch of ammo.

Now I've also gotta ask... Did you ever try WWB ammo before you installed all the improvements?

WAYNO.

 

[seniorxj]

First time trying WWB & the gun was freshly cleaned & lubed up. It was also very clean shooting ammo!

 

[revhigh]

How did the gun perform BEFORE you 'improved' it and made it 'better' ?

REV

 

[seniorxj]

How did the gun perform BEFORE you 'improved' it and made it 'better' ?

REV

It still shot fine, but it was a night & day difference in handling the gun. TRX Sights, a 4.5lb trigger, grip tape, etc. I was a better shot automatically, but the guns reliability was the same.

 

[Rick Courtright]

It still shot fine, but it was a night & day difference in handling the gun. TRX Sights, a 4.5lb trigger, grip tape, etc. I was a better shot automatically, but the guns reliability was the same.

Hi,

Slow down, you're talking faster'n I can listen! Did I miss the part where the gun misfired with WWB BEFORE all the "improvements" just like it did afterward? Cuz if read it right, it sounds like the problem didn't happen until afterward...

In which case, my old gunsmith boss' words, quite similar in concept to what REV mentioned, come to mind:

"First, let's get the gun working the way Ruger intended (one of the more subtle of his many digs at Ruger's QC.) THEN, if you still think you need to 'improve' it, we will." He wasn't big on folks who wanted to start changing things before they'd ever wrung a gun out, and often made that abundantly clear! A lot of people complained about his bedside manner, but hardly anyone ever said a bad word about his work.

Rick C

 

[seniorxj]

I'm calm, just trying to answer direct but still give all the info to avoid any confusion.

My Ruger SR9 has NeveR had a single miss fire in 1100 rounds. I have never used WWB ever, so this was the FirsT time shooting WWB ammo. Also, it was closer to a dozen ftf rounds rather than 2 dozen.
Better?

 

[revhigh]

How did the gun perform BEFORE you 'improved' it and made it 'better' ?

REV

It still shot fine, but it was a night & day difference in handling the gun. TRX Sights, a 4.5lb trigger, grip tape, etc. I was a better shot automatically, but the guns reliability was the same.

From your description ... I'd say it's reliability since its been 'improved' is pretty crappy ... Wouldn't you ?


REV

 

[seniorxj]

How did the gun perform BEFORE you 'improved' it and made it 'better' ?

REV

It still shot fine, but it was a night & day difference in handling the gun. TRX Sights, a 4.5lb trigger, grip tape, etc. I was a better shot automatically, but the guns reliability was the same.

From your description ... I'd say it's reliability since its been 'improved' is pretty crappy ... Wouldn't you ?


REV

To answer your question while biting my tongue:

No way, No how, Not one bit!! Never a single hick up in 1100 rounds down range!!! All mods, & i use that word lightly were done a LONG time ago. Sights, lighter triggers, grip tape, etc, are all normal to do & people mod there guns to there liking.

 

[seniorxj]

The jury is out. Picked up 2 boxes of Perfecta ammo from Walmart which I've use before. I sent 100 rounds down range as fast as the indoor range will allow. Not a single ftf, or the slightest hiccup!!

 

[DGW1949]

"Re: 2 Dozen FTF With Winchester White Box!?!".........

In all due respect, your gun's ability to fire Perfecta ammo has zip to do with whatever it's reliability problem is relative to the Winchester ammo that you tried.....nor does the previous "1100 rounds" of whatever "other ammo" you may have been using.
What I'm getting at is that there's ways to determine if you may have encountered one certain lot of Winchester ammo which may be defective in some way, or if it is indeed gun related.....but...simply trying other kinds of ammo aint going to get you the answer.

Of course, I'm writing this under the assumption that you actualy want the answer.....which I guess you do, for who would want a 9MM pistol that won't work with one of the most common brands of FMJ ammo that's out there?

First clue.....another's pistol fired the very-same ammo which your's won't fire.
Second clue......your gun has been modified with aftermarket parts.

Hope this helped.
You can take it from there.
Good luck.

DGW

 

[revhigh]

First clue.....another's pistol fired the very-same ammo which your's won't fire.
Second clue......your gun has been modified with aftermarket parts.

Hope this helped.
You can take it from there.
Good luck.

DGW

LOL ... Don't ya just love it when somebody improves their gun to the point of not working ?

Ruger and other manufacturers spend millions of dollars testing and making their guns safe ... Then people play amateur gunsmith at the kitchen table and their guns all of a sudden have problems ... It's not too hard to connect the dots.

When it comes to most products ... But ESPECIALLY guns ... You're far better off buying a gun that has the characteristics that you want out of the box ... Rather than trying to MAKE it have the characteristics you want by utilizing aftermarket unproven, and untested parts. If a gun is THAT BAD ... that you need to replace almost the entire fire control group ... You should have bought a better gun in the first place .... With the additional money you've spent on aftermarket 'improvements' .... You could have bought a much higher quality gun out of the box.

Put it back to stock, and dump it if it's that bad. Buy a better gun, and never have to worry about reliability again.

BTW ... Are you SERIOUSLY implying that because it ran several hundred rounds successfully with all your 'improvements' ... That that takes all those changes out of the picture from this problem's POV ? Do you think Ruger stopped testing at 1100 rounds and said ... OK ... We're good to go ?

REV

 

[Rick Courtright]

First clue.....another's pistol fired the very-same ammo which your's won't fire.
Second clue......your gun has been modified with aftermarket parts.

Hi,

DGW and REV, methinks you're both onto something a lot of folks simply don't want to hear, which is, like it or not, the guys who make this stuff actually DO know what they're doing! And more often than not, it's a LOT more than we shade tree types can ever aspire to with our comparatively limited resources.

Just one of many examples, I've got a buddy with a home built AR (.223/5.56.) He doesn't reload yet, so I put together some .223s for him and some other friends a while back. Used a book load my BIL says has proven very accurate and dependable out of his Mini 14. To me, that says it oughta be good enough for starters. Loaded some ranging from "starting" level all the way to "max." They went thru four ARs and a bolt action Savage. Three of the four ARs (factory builds AFAIK) worked perfectly, and the guy with the Savage was surprised that handloads can shoot as accurately as, and sometimes better than, factory ammo.

Only the home built AR gave any problems. IIRC, it was DGW who cautioned me it might, based on his own experience with home builds. Wouldn't cycle right, even with book max loads. What I heard was "It works fine with factory 5.56 ammo, so there's something wrong with your reloads." In trying to diagnose the problem, what I learned was the rifle hadn't been completely cleaned in close to 2000 rounds, and "extra power" springs were installed "to make it shoot better. A suggestion to clean it was heeded, at least with a lick and a promise; the suggestion to return the springs to "factory" spec long enough to test some ammo wasn't. ("It's NOT the springs!" Ok, kid, I've been loading twice as long as you've been breathing, but you know best.) Haven't loaded any more for that fellow!

Haven't beaten one of my favorite dead horses for a day or two, either, so I'll just put in a little lick here:

I've shot 10s of 1000s of rounds of Winchester factory ammo over the years. Shotshells, .22s, center fire handgun, center fire rifle, WWB to Super-X, promo to premium grades. All in all a reasonably good assortment. In non-Ruger firearms, I can count the failures on one hand, and may still have a finger left over. Even my handloads built using Winchester components haven't had many more problems than that, and I can usually trace those few back to operator error of one type or another. I can't say that about my Rugers (regardless of what ammo brand they're fed, factory or handload)... and they're not even modified! Must be WINCHESTER's bad QC, huh?

Rick C

 

[revhigh]

Every upgrade from Galloway precision is in it.


All polishing including the stainless striker & striker body was done by me ...

Ah yes ..... we've discovered the problem ..... And before you go into how experienced you are at building and polishing fire control systems ... If you know so much about the mechanics of fire control systems .... Why exactly are you asking what's wrong here ?

We certainly have no idea what's wrong, and Ruger won't help you with all the 'improvements' you've made ... So you're pretty much on your own to figure it out. Your only hope ? Return the gun to stock and see if your problem persists.

This is probably only the 50 thousandth time we've all heard this exact story.

Good luck ! And I really mean that. I've done the same thing with jet skis and motorcycles ... Never again ... I've learned that lesson. But I've NEVER done it with guns, because if a gun is that bad that it would need the kind of work you've done out of the box ... I simply don't buy it. And believe me ... I know what you mean about the SR family's triggers ... They are absolutely horrendous, so I understand why you did what you did.

REV

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

Every upgrade from Galloway precision is in it.


All polishing including the stainless striker & striker body was done by me ...

Ah yes ..... we've discovered the problem ..... And before you go into how experienced you are at building and polishing fire control systems ... If you know so much about the mechanics of fire control systems .... Why exactly are you asking what's wrong here ?

We certainly have no idea what's wrong, and Ruger won't help you with all the 'improvements' you've made ... So you're pretty much on your own to figure it out. Your only hope ? Return the gun to stock and see if your problem persists.

This is probably only the 50 thousandth time we've all heard this exact story.

Good luck ! And I really mean that. I've done the same thing with jet skis and motorcycles ... Never again ... I've learned that lesson. But I've NEVER done it with guns, because if a gun is that bad that it would need the kind of work you've done out of the box ... I simply don't buy it. And believe me ... I know what you mean about the SR family's triggers ... They are absolutely horrendous, so I understand why you did what you did.

REV

Lee pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one. I can also add that now you've made all those modifications to your gun, there is no minimum expectation of service from Ruger. They now have very right to deny service on that weapon if they choose to. They probably won't, but it's an option.

The liability (your life being on the line) and accountability (to the legal system) are too high to even consider modding a firearm. I'm not talking about changing aesthetic stuff, like grips, sights, etc. But if a gun doesn't run right out of the box, doesn't exhibit the kind of accuracy or reliability you're comfortable with, pass it on for a different/better weapon.

 

[Armybrat]

Had a LOT of light strikes with WWB during the first range session with my SR9 years ago. Just cleaned out the striker channel to correct the problem.

Bought a new Kahr CT380 in December - it ate up all the Remington & Hornady .380, but wouldn't even put a dent in the primers of two mags of WWB.