Don Lovel
Hunter
Charter Arms builds snub revolvers in 40S&W, 44sp, 45acp and 45 Colt. My LGS has 44 & 45 Colt in stock
Snubby 45 ACP
- Thread starter JackBull
- Start date
I have a Para Ordinance Warthog, that also has a 3" barrel, and my experience is pretty much the same. A 3" barrel 1911 style pistol is just not going to be 100% reliable.
I beg to differ, at least in my case. My 3" Kimber Eclipse Ultra ll .45 has been 100% reliable with whatever I feed it. The same with my 3" Colt Defender .45. Both have fired hundreds of rounds from ball to JHP's with zero malfunctions.
It's good to be lucky, I guess LOL
Can semi autos be considered a snubby?
Hankus
Buckeye
??
I ran across this at a show maybe 10 years ago, ANIB and picked it up for a ridiculous price. I had wanted one since they first came out in the 80s, but couldn’t afford one on a soldiers pay. It’s a hefty little pistol, especially with a magazine full of rounds. I found some Guard Dog lower recoil ammo but it’s still snappy even with that.
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In another thread I mentioned the Kimber Custom Shop Ultra Compact that I acquired used. It has never failed to function for me, most of the ammo I have fired in it has been reloads 200gr LSWC 4.6-4.9 gr of Cleanshot and a similar loading of WW231. For a semi-auto to function properly it must have a good base to push against to be reliable, especially the smaller lighter "chopped and channeled" 1911s.
CAJUNCHEF
Single-Sixer
I am curious about the challenges of the 44 Spl in the GP series. I know they are 5 shot cylinders.
Are there any other problems with the 5-shot.44 Spl in the GP series?
I'm keeping an eye out for a good deal on one.
needsmostuff
Blackhawk
There have been many questioning the thinness of the forcing cone where it sticks out of the frame.
Prone to getting cracked ?
Who knows ? In truth my C.A. 44 Target bulldog is just as thin and nobody points fingers at that.
I think you would be happy with one as long as you don't try to make it be a 44mag.
Prone to getting cracked ?
Who knows ? In truth my C.A. 44 Target bulldog is just as thin and nobody points fingers at that.
I think you would be happy with one as long as you don't try to make it be a 44mag.
freakindawgen
Blackhawk
I was looking for a Charter Arm 45 Colt snubby. Never could find one thought they quit making them. Now I'm not in the position to buy one if I did find one.
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
Wait... wait... there was a murderer who used a single action revolver. I saw it on Dateline. The re-enactment showed a large single action revolver and at first I thought Dateline had simply made a mistake - that for convenience they just grabbed it as a prop for the episode. However, they got it right: the guy was actually using a Blackhawk .44 Magnum.
Those thick stainless AMT's... I must get one. I can kick myself for the hundreds of times I walked past them at gun shows. I always liked them.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Taurus 5 shot, ported, snubby in .45 acp. I have one!
Fits in a "K" frame holster. Horrible double action trigger - could use some gunsmithing work.
Since the Security Six (etc.) also fit in a "K" frame holster, Ruger could have made one but choose not to.
The Old Man was pretty savvy when it came to marketing with only a few misses. If he'd thought it would have made money, he'd have made one.
Fits in a "K" frame holster. Horrible double action trigger - could use some gunsmithing work.
Since the Security Six (etc.) also fit in a "K" frame holster, Ruger could have made one but choose not to.
The Old Man was pretty savvy when it came to marketing with only a few misses. If he'd thought it would have made money, he'd have made one.
Taurus also made the same gun in Titanium in .45LC! Weighs only 19 oz. empty. I also have one of those. There is some gossip that Ruger did the Titanium casting for Taurus. Would that make it a Ruger?
The .45 LC shoots just fine!
The .45 LC shoots just fine!
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If you were speaking of the Stainless AMT Hardballer .45acp my buddy had one and it was a jam-a-matic.
The "original 1st Detonics Company made some outstanding .45 "combat masters". But quality decreased after it was sold and resold at least 3 times. I have one of the original and "super rare" nickel plated guns. The gun in the picture is not mine but I am using it as a reference. I think the gun in the reference picture is actually stainless but it looks a lot like my nickeled variation.
The problem was technology overtook it when the light weight, high capacity and lower priced plasticky pistols came on the market. They had half the recoil , twice the ammo capacity and the ammo in 9mm was cheaper. The Combat Master went the way of the DoDo bird.
The problem was technology overtook it when the light weight, high capacity and lower priced plasticky pistols came on the market. They had half the recoil , twice the ammo capacity and the ammo in 9mm was cheaper. The Combat Master went the way of the DoDo bird.
My smallest. The Para Carry is 3".
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
Not the Hardballer - that was a large pistol and the gray color of the frame put me off.
I was referring to the little pocket AMT's shown previously in this thread.
The .45 acp Backup isn't the easiest or funnest thing to shoot. It wasn't meant to be for entertainment purposes.
Like any new pistol they sometimes need a break in period. The problem was most folks put a couple of mags through them and when they realized they weren't up to the task boxed them up and condemned. The condemnation was a way to cover their own inadequacies. Many of the feed failures were from folks who don't have the hand strength to properly hold the weapon in recoil.
After a couple of hundred rounds any feed problems disappear. Of course stainless was reasonably new in pistols at the time and many didn't understand the lubrication requirements.
The only significant problem I encountered was an admittedly poor trigger. Again at this time DAO pistol triggers weren't common. A simple light stoning and polishing of the action surfaces made a significant difference (but we're all know that's never been needed on any, including high dollar, handgun
).
I can put 5 rounds center mass rapidly without any issues. Why, because I learned how.
Like any new pistol they sometimes need a break in period. The problem was most folks put a couple of mags through them and when they realized they weren't up to the task boxed them up and condemned. The condemnation was a way to cover their own inadequacies. Many of the feed failures were from folks who don't have the hand strength to properly hold the weapon in recoil.
After a couple of hundred rounds any feed problems disappear. Of course stainless was reasonably new in pistols at the time and many didn't understand the lubrication requirements.
The only significant problem I encountered was an admittedly poor trigger. Again at this time DAO pistol triggers weren't common. A simple light stoning and polishing of the action surfaces made a significant difference (but we're all know that's never been needed on any, including high dollar, handgun
).I can put 5 rounds center mass rapidly without any issues. Why, because I learned how.
You mentioned the use of exotic lubricants to be used on Stainless Handguns to get them to work. No one likes to rely on a handgun that only works part of the time or drips such lubricants all over your cloths when carrying the gun. I have experienced more than once stainless handguns that had jamming due to the galling of the slide against the frame.The .45 acp Backup isn't the easiest or funnest thing to shoot. It wasn't meant to be for entertainment purposes.
Like any new pistol they sometimes need a break in period. The problem was most folks put a couple of mags through them and when they realized they weren't up to the task boxed them up and condemned. The condemnation was a way to cover their own inadequacies. Many of the feed failures were from folks who don't have the hand strength to properly hold the weapon in recoil.
After a couple of hundred rounds any feed problems disappear. Of course stainless was reasonably new in pistols at the time and many didn't understand the lubrication requirements.
The only significant problem I encountered was an admittedly poor trigger. Again at this time DAO pistol triggers weren't common. A simple light stoning and polishing of the action surfaces made a significant difference (but we're all know that's never been needed on any, including high dollar, handgun
I can put 5 rounds center mass rapidly without any issues. Why, because I learned how.
The .45 Backup suffered from a variety of ailments and below is a copy of what appeared in Handguns Magazine.
The AMT Backup was a small pistol and quite a handful in .45—although it was commonly chambered in .380 Auto as well. Many people were put off by the exposed parts in the right side.
June 19, 2023By Jim Dickson
At 24 ounces, 0.967 inch wide, less than four inches high and just under six inches long, the five-shot stainless steel AMT Backup .45 is about as small as a conventional semiautomatic pistol can be made in this caliber. As the name suggests, it's intended as a backup to a full-size service pistol, and the little gun has no safety—relying on its double-action-only trigger for that.
The gun has a checkered history in terms of ownership, and it's kind of tough to sort out. It was originally manufactured by Ordnance Manufacturing Corporation out of California and then Arcadia Machine & Tool (the AMT part), which was later acquired by Irwindale Arms.
Galena Industries purchased that company in 1988 and produced AMT models for a number of years. According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, Galena phased out the AMT name. Blue Book indicates AMT tooling was purchased by Crusader Gun Company in 2004, which reintroduced the Backup in both .380 and .45 ACP. Somewhere in there, Crusader was acquired by High Standard Manufacturing, and AMT pistols are associated with this brand as well.
Over its life, the Backup was produced in small- and large-frame sizes. Chamberings included such cartridges as .22 Long Rifle (a limited run discontinued in 1987), .38 Super, 9x19mm, .357 SIG and .40 S&W—and even novel rounds like .400 Cor-Bon.
×
Due to the long, heavy double-action trigger pull combined with an exceptionally light gun and minimal sights—only a groove in the slide—the little pistol is truly a short-range affair. These characteristics, along with the substantial recoil in .45, worked against this gun's popularity. The exposure of working parts on the right side also put a lot of people off.
The worst problem was the exceptionally heavy trigger pull. When I first got the gun shown here, my wife could hardly pull the trigger. I sent it back to the factory to be lightened so she could use it. However, as a carry gun it rides unnoticed in a pancake holster, and I had a G.I. .45 web magazine pouch shortened to fit its two spare magazines. My sample has always been totally reliable, and it was one of the earlier ones made, so it has had plenty of time to demonstrate that reliability.
As mentioned, AMT was eventually acquired by High Standard Firearms and as ownership changed hands the AMT .45 Backup was dropped from production. A search on gunbroker.com turned up zero in .45 for sale, but .380s are available—with prices generally in the $300 to $400 range.
So, the only ting the writer could fault the firearm on was the trigger. I had the same observation. And my fix was likely exactly the same as the "factory". Again, no other handgun in history has ever needed a trigger job (if you have sent handguns off for expensive ministrations by custom gun smiths you have been conned
).
And stainless doesn't need to be "dripping" in exotic lubricants. Just follow common sense and use the proper lubricants (unless of course you're the type to put 90 weight in your engine, in Michigan, in winter). By the way, galling was solved quickly when manufactures starting using dissimilar stainless steel in bearing surfaces.
).And stainless doesn't need to be "dripping" in exotic lubricants. Just follow common sense and use the proper lubricants (unless of course you're the type to put 90 weight in your engine, in Michigan, in winter). By the way, galling was solved quickly when manufactures starting using dissimilar stainless steel in bearing surfaces.
quote--------------- By the way, galling was solved quickly when manufactures starting using dissimilar stainless steel in bearing surfaces.---------quoteSo, the only ting the writer could fault the firearm on was the trigger. I had the same observation. And my fix was likely exactly the same as the "factory". Again, no other handgun in history has ever needed a trigger job (if you have sent handguns off for expensive ministrations by custom gun smiths you have been conned
And stainless doesn't need to be "dripping" in exotic lubricants. Just follow common sense and use the proper lubricants (unless of course you're the type to put 90 weight in your engine, in Michigan, in winter). By the way, galling was solved quickly when manufactures starting using dissimilar stainless steel in bearing surfaces.
And I might add they failed miserably on most models. That is why many of them started mating stainless slides to aluminum frames that was the only solution I ever saw that made them as reliable as a gun made of non-stainless steel. This is the reason I gave up on the reliability of stainless handguns. The only stainless pistol that I ever owned that worked reliably was the Seecamp .32 acp. and yes it had to be lubricated and not shot dry. Its the only stainless pistol I ever kept, I got rid of the rest for obvious reasons.
Perhaps others may have had stainless pistols that worked without exotic lubricants but I never had one that was as reliable as carbon steel pistols. I do not recommend shooting any pistol "dry" but I have done it with carbon steel pistols when I forgot to lube them and they did work if they were carbon steel.
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
The Sig P232 stainless version is stainless steel on both slide and frame. It has a good reputation. On mine, I use just CLP and it is perfectly reliable.
OP
JackBull
Hunter
I only wish SIG still made that one.
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
For something relatively small, Sig makes this, steel and alloy - no plastic. It's the P938 Legion, 9mm, 7+ 1, single action.
AMT Backup…I have/had a .380 with some unusual history. Years ago a cop buddy was involved in a shoot. Several years later, he was notified that the firearm that the shooter had was going to be destroyed- and would he want it? He got it- and it had some serious stains on the slide and frame from percolating in a baggie for years with brain matter drying on it. After a while he decided he liked something I owned and I got that little AMT as part of the trade. Well, those stains were permanent but that little thing shot like a dream. And was reliable too…
Why did I say "had"? My daughter saw the gun and thought it was "cute". I explained the brain stain bit and she told me she thought that was cool, and wanted it. So, I gave it to her as she had a job where she was waitressing and getting off shift late at night. We're both much older now, and it lives in her and her husband’s gun safe. Come to think of it, there's a few of my guns that have made their way over there…
Why did I say "had"? My daughter saw the gun and thought it was "cute". I explained the brain stain bit and she told me she thought that was cool, and wanted it. So, I gave it to her as she had a job where she was waitressing and getting off shift late at night. We're both much older now, and it lives in her and her husband’s gun safe. Come to think of it, there's a few of my guns that have made their way over there…
Pál_K
Guns. I has it.
They are cute. Did she ever shoot it?
Oh yeah. She’s good with it too. Her husband has stocked up on .380 ammo-
That’s the worst part about living far away from your kids. You can’t enjoy stuff with them. My grandson is 15 and loves going to garage sales ( something my dad and I always enjoyed) plus he’s getting into guns and cars. We’re about 3 1/2 hours away but it might has well be a thousand miles- we hardly ever get over to see them.
I used to have a Taurus model 450, which was a medium frame 5 shot in .45 Colt with a 2" barrel. Regret selling it as they don't make them anymore, and now are near impossible to get. They were replaced by the horrible stupid monstrosity they call "the judge."
Sweat will stain what ever stainless AMT made the .380's out of. I carried a single action (read original) .380 Backup as my bike gun for years. It rode in the rear pocket of my jersey. It's got some staining that could probably be cleaned off. But I think it give it character and reminds me of some good rides when I was younger.
As an aside, I lent my .45 backup to my eldest when he joined the police force. He carried it for a couple of years until he could justify spending money on something else. He put a lot of rounds through it which likely smoothed it up even more. One day he'll get it back.
As an aside, I lent my .45 backup to my eldest when he joined the police force. He carried it for a couple of years until he could justify spending money on something else. He put a lot of rounds through it which likely smoothed it up even more. One day he'll get it back.
OP
JackBull
Hunter
That looks like my Large Frame BH in 45C. Is the bisley hammer a drop in, would love one on mine. I also have a LF 3.6 with the plow handle grip.The closest is 3.6",,, the shortest barrel that Ruger makes in any gun.
Mine is a Vaquero (Large Frame) that came from Ruger chambered in 45 Colt. Being it is a Large Frame it shoots Ruger Only 45 Colt loads if one chooses…
I fit the 45 ACP Cylinder, and a few other custom touches.
Most of the time I shoot 45ACP and/or 45 Cowboy Special,,, because they eject easiest.
FWIW: This same gun was built with a Plow Handle also.
I do like me some short barrel guns…
I have a 2" DA revolver, but for this post it comes up short in 2 areas. It's not a Ruger (Taurus TI) & it's .44 SPL. So I won't mention it here. 
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