Handguns in Defense Against Bears by Caliber - .357 Mag (& .45 ACP)

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I have been carrying a 9mm lately as it holds 20 rounds, if faster to reload and recoils less. The Winchester Active Duty 9mm FMJ-FP (Army load) penetrates to 40" from a 5" Sig 226. I tested it using a 1/4" piece of leather over a 1# bologna pack backed by 1/4" particle board and then water jugs at 20ft. None of the underwood or buffalo bore "woods" loadings came close
 
Another spectscularly good loading is the 200 grain Speer Lawman 45 acp +p load. It outperforms all the 10mm "normal" loads I tried. The only 10mm that did better was the TRUE loadings from Underwood and that was only by 2".
 
It’s my understanding the Phil Shoemaker (Alaska Master Guide) has his family carry a 357 magnum.
His thinking is they can recover from the recoil and get back on target quicker. That is a good point. Every thing else being equal, which isn’t always the case. This is the guide that used an S&W 9mm to protect some folks he was taking fishing.

In my mind this assumes getting a perfect angle for a shot.

The other side of the story is most bear incidents are with black bears who are much smaller (in general) . I would have no problems with a 357 mag with an average size lower 48 black bear.

It goes without saying most people can shoot a lighter recoiling revolver.
 
Using a handgun against bears in any caliber is vastly inferior to the rifle with its superior destructive high velocity and superior penetration.

60 Minutes last year shot a 9mm handgun into ballistic gelatin and then shot a .223 rifle into the same block of gelatine and the difference in destruction was jaw dropping.

Let's face facts the gun companies have for many years made very short and light rifles which are only slightly more inconvenient to carry than a handgun so why not use a rifle when your life may be on the line.
 
bhp9 said:
Using a handgun against bears in any caliber is vastly inferior to the rifle with its superior destructive high velocity and superior penetration.

60 Minutes last year shot a 9mm handgun into ballistic gelatin and then shot a .223 rifle into the same block of gelatine and the difference in destruction was jaw dropping.

Let's face facts the gun companies have for many years made very short and light rifles which are only slightly more inconvenient to carry than a handgun so why not use a rifle when your life may be on the line.
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Because many times you will not have your rifle with you. Get a surprise attack by a Bear, do you really have time to go get your rifle?

Get the picture.
YvXn74Z.jpg
 
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The problem with the pistol vs rifle/shotgun argument is that if I'm out on a hike I don't want to have to carry a long gun along with everything else, I hike and camp in areas that there's a lot of bears and most attacks come in seconds, I carry my 10mm with 17rds, leaves my hands free and quick to get to if needed, quicker than swinging a long gun off the shoulder I would think.
 
davevabch said:
Because many times you will not have your rifle with you. Get a surprise attack by a Bear, do you really have time to go get your rifle?

Get the picture.
YvXn74Z.jpg
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When in bear country you always have your rifle over your shoulder or in your hands just as a soldier always has his rifle in his possession when on patrol. Take a look at this and tell me how great a job a pistol would do.
1719944942753.png
 
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bhp9 said:
When in bear country you always have your rifle over your shoulder or in your hands just as a soldier always has his rifle in his possession when on patrol. Take a look at this and tell me how great a job a pistol would do.
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Don't see a rifle strapped over that guys shoulder. Would Hate to see that Bear's cousin coming charging up from behind. There is the way it should be and there is reality. Mama always taught me to have a back up plan.
 
I met a biologist from Canadian equivalent of the Forest Service. Now, handguns are, I believe, pretty strictly controlled in Canada. I asked him what, if anything, he had found as a common thread to fatalities and serious maulings. He said they found, almost invariably, that they had a rifle hanging from their shoulder!

As I've said before, most fatalities, statistically, are sub-adult male black bears and are predatory in nature.
 
davevabch said:
Don't see a rifle strapped over that guys shoulder. Would Hate to see that Bear's cousin coming charging up from behind. There is the way it should be and there is reality. Mama always taught me to have a back up plan.
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I would hardly think that dead Bear is any threat to the guy and his rifle may be lying by his side slightly off camera.

I have a brother who years ago used to fish Alaska and most of his buddies while fishing did not carry handguns but they had short rifle carbines slung over their shoulders. They were in Alaska often enough to know that when danger is certain you never want to attempt to do a job with a handgun when a rifle will do it much better and that includes encounters with 2 legged predators as well.

I think few people know how anemic a handgun really is in any defensive situation including the 2 legged kind. A 50% stopping rate is even probably too high. A high velocity rifle is a completely different breed of cat.

I might add that Jan Libourel, the now retired gun writer, made a study of U.S. Military records and found that every pistol caliber used in the Philippine/U.S. war of 1899 to 1912 was ruled anemic including the 45 long Colt, 38 Colt, and yes also the .45 acp.
 
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I am not arguing that any pistol is a poor choice for a lot of applications. And I have zero experience shooting Griz and Brownies. Lol, do not want that experience either. Just being in their Territory is akin to going down into the hood on a Saturday night looking for a good time. Thankfully I live in Virginia. Very few Grizzly, Brown, or Polar bears. I have run across many Black Bears as I have been going into the woods since a kid. Carry a sidearm but that is mostly for two legged Skunks.
 
The best gun for a bear is the biggest one you can shoot well. When I lived in griz country I carried a S&W 629. My son was bowhunting black bear a few years ago and was charged at 15 yrds by a blackie and he had time to get off two quick shots. The first a miss and the second at 5 ft. right between the eyes. He already had the gun out before the bear charged. It is a Springfield XDS in 45 acp. Bear attacks happen in the blink of an eye.
 

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For the bear hunters out there. I was told that a bear that is shot will usually travel (presume it doesn't drop from the first shot) in the direction it was traveling when hit. As a rule is that true or an old tale? I carry a Redhawk 44 mag with 320 grain max charge. I reload and trust my own work. Black bears around here.
 
With all the discussion about bear defense, I haven't read any opinions about carrying a Mossberg shock wave or Remington TAC 13/14. (with slugs of course)
Any opinion? Pro or con?
 
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Obviously the Bear holds all the cards. Going up against one is a stacked deck. The only way to win is pull a Ace out of your you know what!
 
pyth0n said:
With all the discussion about bear defense, I haven't read any opinions about carrying a Mossberg shock wave or Remington TAC 13/14. (with slugs of course)
Any opinion? Pro or con?
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Many years ago at Yellowstone Park (I believe) 3 girls were camping out and a bear attacked them in their tent and killed one of them. Park Rangers were ordered to track the bear down and they were issued 12 gauge shotguns. They found the bear and had no trouble blowing it to kingdom come.

The 12 gauge with a slug makes a very big hole in a brear or anything else it hits.

I think the Mossberg shockwave would be the ideal compromise between carrying a pistol or a full length shotgun as its short and handy. The Mossberg is also known for its reliability. I have owned several since 1973 and never had a misfire and never had a jam. Want more could you ask for? And they have always been reasonably priced as well.

By the way the last deer I shot was a button buck and I used a 12 gauge Mossberg. The range was roughly 20 yards. When the deer was hit it went up in the air, rolled over in the air with its back to the ground and then landed on its back. My hunting companion was amazed and said he had never seen that happen in all his years of hunting and neither have I before or since. Let no one ever say the 12 gauge is not one of the deadliest weapons on the planet.

The ammo used thad day was a Remington copper slug. It is a solid copper slug with the nose drilled out into a hollow point and they do expand as every deer I ever shot with them the roughly 50 caliber slug expanded all its petals and remember that slug is also spinning when it hits a deer if your gun has a rifled barrel. In other words its a flying buzz saw.
 
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rmc25 said:
For the bear hunters out there. I was told that a bear that is shot will usually travel (presume it doesn't drop from the first shot) in the direction it was traveling when hit. As a rule is that true or an old tale? I carry a Redhawk 44 mag with 320 grain max charge. I reload and trust my own work. Black bears around here.
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Not a bear hunter (with bullets, just a hypo!), but think about it! A car is coming at you at about 35 mph. They turn off the ignition but do not put on the brakes. You are on the track (tied up with fear). What are your chances??
 
bhp9 said:
Many years ago at Yellowstone Park (I believe) 3 girls were camping out and a bear attacked them in their tent and killed one of them. Park Rangers were ordered to track the bear down and they were issued 12 gauge shotguns. They found the bear and had no trouble blowing it to kingdom come.

The 12 gauge with a slug makes a very big hole in a brear or anything else it hits.

I think the Mossberg shockwave would be the ideal compromise between carrying a pistol or a full length shotgun as its short and handy. The Mossberg is also known for its reliability. I have owned several since 1973 and never had a misfire and never had a jam. Want more could you ask for? And they have always been reasonably priced as well.

By the way the last deer I shot was a button buck and I used a 12 gauge Mossberg. The range was roughly 20 yards. When the deer was hit it went up in the air, rolled over in the air with its back to the ground and then landed on its back. My hunting companion was amazed and said he had never seen that happen in all his years of hunting and neither have I before or since. Let no one ever say the 12 gauge is not one of the deadliest weapons on the planet.

The ammo used thad day was a Remington copper slug. It is a solid copper slug with the nose drilled out into a hollow point and they do expand as every deer I ever shot with them the roughly 50 caliber slug expanded all its petals and remember that slug is also spinning when it hits a deer if your gun has a rifled barrel. In other words its a flying buzz saw.
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When I worked with US Fish and Wildlife, I called the biologists at several Refuges in Alaska (Kenai Fjords & Denali=maybe more). They agreed that a 12 gauge with slugs and buck alternated was what they preferred. My ex-boss went to Alaska after I retired to run the Marine Mammals Unit. They used 12 ga slugs when darting polar bears (slightly larger than brown bears).
 
pyth0n said:
With all the discussion about bear defense, I haven't read any opinions about carrying a Mossberg shock wave or Remington TAC 13/14. (with slugs of course)
Any opinion? Pro or con?
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If you can hit a small target that's weaving and moving at 35mph while scared s+++less, it should do the trick
 
A shotgun with slugs is the best defense in my opinion. We had 4 at the home in northwest MT. One at each door, loaded with slugs.

The ruger redhawk in 44 is an excellent choice. Especially loaded as you say.

One well placed shot is worth more than a magazine full of ammo, all you can do is spray and pray.

50 years ago I was riding a grazing permit in northern Colorado. California Park for those who know the area. A steer cut proud kept running off some of my cows. One time while pushing them back to where they were suppose to be, up a steep ravine, the steer, that belonged to a rancher up in WY, was the in line and not happy about me interferring with his gals. At the top of the ravine the steer turned bellered , lowered his head, threw his tail in the air and came charging down the narrow trail at me. My horse wanted no part of it and tried to find a way to turn around and get out of there. Well I wasn't having any part of turning tail and running. I was fed up with this steer. I grabbed my winchester out of the boot, and bailed off the horse on the uphill side. The winchester was fully loaded with 7 rounds. I stood in the trail and started firing as fast as I could at the charging steer. He was about 30 yards away when he started down at me. I hit him 6 times and he was still running. I had one shot left and finally shot him between the eyes. He dropped on the trail and I could reach out and touch his nose with the gun barrel. I had tried to shoot him in the head from the start but the excitment and the moving target just made it impossible. A bear would be the same thing except he could chew you up instead of head butting you to death.
The rancher I rode for asked about one of George's steers being gone the next time he came up. I told him the story and all he said was "you ought not be shooting other peoples steers"

The moral of the story is one shot is all it took. Use the biggest gun you can shoot well with.
 
A 12g loaded with Brenakees or a 44 mag carbine and a Glock 20 Gen 5 in a chest rig and I’d feel pretty secure in brown hunting grounds. Black bears, a .357 or 10mm handgun and for good measure a .308 or similar.
 
pyth0n said:
With all the discussion about bear defense, I haven't read any opinions about carrying a Mossberg shock wave or Remington TAC 13/14. (with slugs of course)
Any opinion? Pro or con?
Click to expand...

Because there is no buttstock, they are not as easy to aim as a conventional shotgun - some of the reviews I've read specifically mention that difficulty. And as others here have noted with regard to bear defense, if you don't hit the bear, it doesn't really matter what you're shooting!
:)
 
the_leper_colony said:
Because there is no buttstock, they are not as easy to aim as a conventional shotgun - some of the reviews I've read specifically mention that difficulty. And as others here have noted with regard to bear defense, if you don't hit the bear, it doesn't really matter what you're shooting!
:)
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I thought of the controllability. I had the shockwave & I couldn't control it. I watched several videos where shooters had little problem controlling them. Also the trigger reach for me had me choking up the grip & when fired, the safety hit my thumb knuckle causing bleeding. I handled the Remington & the reach was much better. Never fired the Rem though. If I thought I wanted to try a Remington, I'd give a 20 ga a try. If (big if) I find myself going into bear country, I'll pack my 4" .44 Redhawk. 🙂
 
This is a good read. I read in a couple long sessions. Lots of information based on his experience in bear country. He prefers a .338 mag.
My family and I 4x4 in Colorado. We camp in areas that have black bear. This September I will carry my GP100 MC with Underwood 158 keith style hard cast.
If we see bears, my first reaction will be, "WOW HOW Lucky". At least that is the plan.
 

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