Handguns in Defense Against Bears by Caliber - .357 Mag (& .45 ACP)

[the_leper_colony]

FYI & FWIW (edit - see post #40 for link to .45 ACP):

Handguns in Defense Against Bears by Caliber | .357 Magnum

There have been 14 documented cases where a .357 Magnum revolver has been fired in defense against bears. One of those cases was a failure.

www.ammoland.com

 

[Wvfarrier]

It does not matter what you use if you cannot hit your target under duress. IIRC that failure was because the guy missed with all 6 rounds

 

[Wvfarrier]

I have been carrying a 9mm lately as it holds 20 rounds, if faster to reload and recoils less. The Winchester Active Duty 9mm FMJ-FP (Army load) penetrates to 40" from a 5" Sig 226. I tested it using a 1/4" piece of leather over a 1# bologna pack backed by 1/4" particle board and then water jugs at 20ft. None of the underwood or buffalo bore "woods" loadings came close

 

[Wvfarrier]

Another spectscularly good loading is the 200 grain Speer Lawman 45 acp +p load. It outperforms all the 10mm "normal" loads I tried. The only 10mm that did better was the TRUE loadings from Underwood and that was only by 2".

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

It's my understanding the Phil Shoemaker (Alaska Master Guide) has his family carry a 357 magnum.
His thinking is they can recover from the recoil and get back on target quicker. That is a good point. Every thing else being equal, which isn't always the case. This is the guide that used an S&W 9mm to protect some folks he was taking fishing.

In my mind this assumes getting a perfect angle for a shot.

The other side of the story is most bear incidents are with black bears who are much smaller (in general) . I would have no problems with a 357 mag with an average size lower 48 black bear.

It goes without saying most people can shoot a lighter recoiling revolver.

 

[bhp9]

Using a handgun against bears in any caliber is vastly inferior to the rifle with its superior destructive high velocity and superior penetration.

60 Minutes last year shot a 9mm handgun into ballistic gelatin and then shot a .223 rifle into the same block of gelatine and the difference in destruction was jaw dropping.

Let's face facts the gun companies have for many years made very short and light rifles which are only slightly more inconvenient to carry than a handgun so why not use a rifle when your life may be on the line.

 

[davevabch]

Using a handgun against bears in any caliber is vastly inferior to the rifle with its superior destructive high velocity and superior penetration.

60 Minutes last year shot a 9mm handgun into ballistic gelatin and then shot a .223 rifle into the same block of gelatine and the difference in destruction was jaw dropping.

Let's face facts the gun companies have for many years made very short and light rifles which are only slightly more inconvenient to carry than a handgun so why not use a rifle when your life may be on the line.

Because many times you will not have your rifle with you. Get a surprise attack by a Bear, do you really have time to go get your rifle?

Get the picture.

 

[tunnug]

The problem with the pistol vs rifle/shotgun argument is that if I'm out on a hike I don't want to have to carry a long gun along with everything else, I hike and camp in areas that there's a lot of bears and most attacks come in seconds, I carry my 10mm with 17rds, leaves my hands free and quick to get to if needed, quicker than swinging a long gun off the shoulder I would think.

 

[bhp9]

Because many times you will not have your rifle with you. Get a surprise attack by a Bear, do you really have time to go get your rifle?

Get the picture.

When in bear country you always have your rifle over your shoulder or in your hands just as a soldier always has his rifle in his possession when on patrol. Take a look at this and tell me how great a job a pistol would do.

 

[Jeepnik]

I have a kid that when ask what is the proper firearm for any encounter he simply responds SAW. Even if it's only a 5.56, enough of them will stop anything in it's tracks.

 

[davevabch]

When in bear country you always have your rifle over your shoulder or in your hands just as a soldier always has his rifle in his possession when on patrol. Take a look at this and tell me how great a job a pistol would do.
View attachment 49070

Don't see a rifle strapped over that guys shoulder. Would Hate to see that Bear's cousin coming charging up from behind. There is the way it should be and there is reality. Mama always taught me to have a back up plan.

 

[BearBiologist]

I met a biologist from Canadian equivalent of the Forest Service. Now, handguns are, I believe, pretty strictly controlled in Canada. I asked him what, if anything, he had found as a common thread to fatalities and serious maulings. He said they found, almost invariably, that they had a rifle hanging from their shoulder!

As I've said before, most fatalities, statistically, are sub-adult male black bears and are predatory in nature.

 

[bhp9]

Don't see a rifle strapped over that guys shoulder. Would Hate to see that Bear's cousin coming charging up from behind. There is the way it should be and there is reality. Mama always taught me to have a back up plan.

I would hardly think that dead Bear is any threat to the guy and his rifle may be lying by his side slightly off camera.

I have a brother who years ago used to fish Alaska and most of his buddies while fishing did not carry handguns but they had short rifle carbines slung over their shoulders. They were in Alaska often enough to know that when danger is certain you never want to attempt to do a job with a handgun when a rifle will do it much better and that includes encounters with 2 legged predators as well.

I think few people know how anemic a handgun really is in any defensive situation including the 2 legged kind. A 50% stopping rate is even probably too high. A high velocity rifle is a completely different breed of cat.

I might add that Jan Libourel, the now retired gun writer, made a study of U.S. Military records and found that every pistol caliber used in the Philippine/U.S. war of 1899 to 1912 was ruled anemic including the 45 long Colt, 38 Colt, and yes also the .45 acp.

 

[davevabch]

I am not arguing that any pistol is a poor choice for a lot of applications. And I have zero experience shooting Griz and Brownies. Lol, do not want that experience either. Just being in their Territory is akin to going down into the hood on a Saturday night looking for a good time. Thankfully I live in Virginia. Very few Grizzly, Brown, or Polar bears. I have run across many Black Bears as I have been going into the woods since a kid. Carry a sidearm but that is mostly for two legged Skunks.

 

[jspick]

The best gun for a bear is the biggest one you can shoot well. When I lived in griz country I carried a S&W 629. My son was bowhunting black bear a few years ago and was charged at 15 yrds by a blackie and he had time to get off two quick shots. The first a miss and the second at 5 ft. right between the eyes. He already had the gun out before the bear charged. It is a Springfield XDS in 45 acp. Bear attacks happen in the blink of an eye.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

This should do the job. M249 SAW

 

[rmc25]

For the bear hunters out there. I was told that a bear that is shot will usually travel (presume it doesn't drop from the first shot) in the direction it was traveling when hit. As a rule is that true or an old tale? I carry a Redhawk 44 mag with 320 grain max charge. I reload and trust my own work. Black bears around here.

 

[pyth0n]

With all the discussion about bear defense, I haven't read any opinions about carrying a Mossberg shock wave or Remington TAC 13/14. (with slugs of course)
Any opinion? Pro or con?

 

[davevabch]

Obviously the Bear holds all the cards. Going up against one is a stacked deck. The only way to win is pull a Ace out of your you know what!

 

[bhp9]

With all the discussion about bear defense, I haven't read any opinions about carrying a Mossberg shock wave or Remington TAC 13/14. (with slugs of course)
Any opinion? Pro or con?

Many years ago at Yellowstone Park (I believe) 3 girls were camping out and a bear attacked them in their tent and killed one of them. Park Rangers were ordered to track the bear down and they were issued 12 gauge shotguns. They found the bear and had no trouble blowing it to kingdom come.

The 12 gauge with a slug makes a very big hole in a brear or anything else it hits.

I think the Mossberg shockwave would be the ideal compromise between carrying a pistol or a full length shotgun as its short and handy. The Mossberg is also known for its reliability. I have owned several since 1973 and never had a misfire and never had a jam. Want more could you ask for? And they have always been reasonably priced as well.

By the way the last deer I shot was a button buck and I used a 12 gauge Mossberg. The range was roughly 20 yards. When the deer was hit it went up in the air, rolled over in the air with its back to the ground and then landed on its back. My hunting companion was amazed and said he had never seen that happen in all his years of hunting and neither have I before or since. Let no one ever say the 12 gauge is not one of the deadliest weapons on the planet.

The ammo used thad day was a Remington copper slug. It is a solid copper slug with the nose drilled out into a hollow point and they do expand as every deer I ever shot with them the roughly 50 caliber slug expanded all its petals and remember that slug is also spinning when it hits a deer if your gun has a rifled barrel. In other words its a flying buzz saw.