A
Anonymous
Does anyone know why there would be a capital letter "D" stamped lightly in front of the serial number of a '71 OM .357?
contender
Ruger Guru
It means "D" effective. Send it to me, as you do not need to keep such a bad gun. :D :D :D
"D" usually means it's a duplicate serial number. (Shhhhh don't let Radical Rod see this post!) :D
"D" usually means it's a duplicate serial number. (Shhhhh don't let Radical Rod see this post!) :D
OP
Anonymous
98Redline said:
Really...duplicate serial number? Is there a story or rationale behind why Ruger would ship two guns with the same serial number? I mean, maybe other than someone saying, "Well, we've built these two guns with the same number...no sense wasting one...we'll just stamp a 'D' on one and sell it anyway"?
Or would they stamp the "D" on both guns?
I'm just curious.
Note: Contender...I don't actually have the gun, I've just seen photographs of it.
cellar701
Buckeye
Some more info here:
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=99014
And I'm certain some would be very interested in serial number of the revolver you spotted.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=99014
And I'm certain some would be very interested in serial number of the revolver you spotted.
OP
Anonymous
cellar701 said:
Thanks for the link.
I guess my question still is how could this happen. It seems to me that there would have to be several people at various points on Ruger's assembly line and even in packing and shipping who were kind of not paying attention...you know?
In the opinion of Ruger Forum members, would a duplicate serial number increase the value of the gun? Or would it just be considered an oddity of no particular significance?
Usually attributed to a slip-up at the numbering station on the assembly line. Could be human error, or simply a malfunction of the machinery. The .357's aren't the only ones this has happened to.
Like any other "oddity" in Rugerville, the duplicates have their admirers . . . and collectors.
Just because.
:)
Like any other "oddity" in Rugerville, the duplicates have their admirers . . . and collectors.
Just because.
:)
Hondo44
Hawkeye
BIGDAWG,
The D means duplicated numeric digits. They don't stamp the D on both guns with the same number, just one of the guns. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell both guns, they would have the same serial #. They do know about it, that's why one gets the D stamped on it. It's done by Ruger 100s if not 1000s of times.
I don't know that it's a mistake. Each gun is stamped with a different # within a serial # range set aside for that particular model of gun. If they build more of a certain model and run out of numbers in that model's range of serial numbers, they can use all the numbers again by adding a D.
Some are fixated on getting both guns with duplicated numerical digits, not considering the D on one of them of course. Some like to collect "seconds" stamped with an S.
The D means duplicated numeric digits. They don't stamp the D on both guns with the same number, just one of the guns. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell both guns, they would have the same serial #. They do know about it, that's why one gets the D stamped on it. It's done by Ruger 100s if not 1000s of times.
I don't know that it's a mistake. Each gun is stamped with a different # within a serial # range set aside for that particular model of gun. If they build more of a certain model and run out of numbers in that model's range of serial numbers, they can use all the numbers again by adding a D.
Some are fixated on getting both guns with duplicated numerical digits, not considering the D on one of them of course. Some like to collect "seconds" stamped with an S.
Hondo44 said:
That's possible, but so far as we know all the "D" guns are the result of a numbering screwup. Either the guy setting up the numbering device makes an error when preparing to do a "run" of a certain model, or the numbering device itself fails to index properly. Several of the well-known Rugerbooks have dealt with this phenomenon.
:)
OP
Anonymous
Hondo44 said:
So...are you sort of saying there's nothing "special" about a "D" serial numbered gun, other than the value placed on it by collectors of Rugers that are "different"? Again, right now, this is just curiousity on my part, but that could change.
Well, other than the "D" there really isn't anything "different" about the guns. It has been noted in the field of Ruger collecting that this phenomenon has occurred several times, and what with some number collectors' enthusiasm and all it has a certain interest. The usual goal is to attempt to pair up the "D" gun with its "non-D" mate. This, of course, can be quite difficult and thus the interest.
In the RENE "Reference of Ruger Firearms" the "D" series are duly noted so we can see how they fall into the overall lineup.
There have been “D” runs in all of the various Old Model Single-Six line, the Old Model Bearcats, the Old Model Super Blackhawks, the 10-22's, and there were even a run of duplicate Old Model .41 Blackhawks that DIDN’T receive a “D” stamp. There are likely some “D” guns in the New Models, but I’m not up on those.
:)
In the RENE "Reference of Ruger Firearms" the "D" series are duly noted so we can see how they fall into the overall lineup.
There have been “D” runs in all of the various Old Model Single-Six line, the Old Model Bearcats, the Old Model Super Blackhawks, the 10-22's, and there were even a run of duplicate Old Model .41 Blackhawks that DIDN’T receive a “D” stamp. There are likely some “D” guns in the New Models, but I’m not up on those.
:)
flatgate
Hawkeye
If you look close you can see the letter "D" included with the serial number of this ol' .22.
flatgate
street
Hunter
Yes!!! There is something special about a "D" stamped serial numbered Ruger, but only to a collector. A shooter could care less if a gun even had a serial number. They only care if it shoot well! A "D" stamped on the serial number of a Ruger is the result of a mistake made at the factory, as somehow two guns were stamped with the same number. Sometimes the mistake is caught and a D is stamped on one of the guns and sometimes the mistakes are missed and both guns get out of the factory with both serial numbers the same. These guns with the "D" serial number are very collectible as they are some what to very rare. And as everyone knows if it is rare and it's a Ruger then it's very collectible.BIGDAWG said:
One of the most famous "D" guns were the Single-Sixes in the 500,000 range. As most of you know, Ruger set aside different serial numbers for their different models. In 1964 Ruger came out with their Super Single-Six with adjustable sights. They started with serial number 400,000 to 400,005 and for some reason they jumped to serial number 500,000. They set aside serial numbers in the 600,000 and 700,000 range for the Super Single-Six. As the Super Single-Six started out at 500,000 the Single-Sixes were at 380,000 range. In 1968 the regular Single-Sixes went from 499,999 to what should have been 800.000. But it has been 4 years that Ruger produced the Super Single-Six starting at 500,000 and the person stamping the frames for the Single-Six just let the stamper roll over to 500,000 and he produced over 5000 Single-Sixes with the same serial numbers that the Super Single-Sixes had back in 1964. A BIG MISTAKE AS NOW THERE ARE 5000 GUNS WITH THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER. Of course Ruger didn't scrap these guns they hand stamped a "D" in front of the serial number and shipped them out.
John Dougan has a more complete list of "D" guns of all models in his latest book, page 357 to 360. The guns that he list are the cause of the stamping machine not changing numbers correctly, not because someone used the same numbers on a different model, such as the Single-Sixes being stamped with the Super Single-Sixes numbers. He list Bearcats 80000D to 80265D, also Bearcats 87400D to 87499D. Single-Six 181660D to 182598D, also Super Single-Six 528000D to 528752D. Then he list the Super Blackhawk 80-25435D to 80-26235D, then 357 Blackhawk 30-97400D to 30-98910D. The last two that he list were the .41 Blackhawk from 10395D to 10895D, last but not the least were Bearcats 97959D to 98324D.
So as you can see some of these guns are very rare and I don't know of anyone that has a complete collection of them.
OP
Anonymous
Thanks to everyone for all the comments, opinions, and information so far. I genuinely appreciate it.
Street, would a "complete collection" include . . . ALL OF 'EM???
We have a few guys here approaching that degree of "completeness".
;) :) ;)
We have a few guys here approaching that degree of "completeness".
;) :) ;)
street
Hunter
One of each serial number range and barrel length. And in the case of R.R., you would have to have consecutive pairs of the above. And maybe an addition to the gun room!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:Ale-8(1) said:
Yeah . . . that'd be a good start . . .
;)
;)
SATCOM
Blackhawk
HAY! Where is a picture of the famous Bearcat that was marked as a duplicate but also a second, thus having both a "D" and "S"!!!!!! :shock:
It is in RR's safe/room/display case I think. With my initials being DS and my wife's DS also it sure would nice to have something like that.
SATCOM
It is in RR's safe/room/display case I think. With my initials being DS and my wife's DS also it sure would nice to have something like that.
SATCOM
Rod does a nice, informative (paid) tour weekdays between three and five PM . . . reservations recommended.
That'll get ya close to it.
;)
That'll get ya close to it.
;)
Hey, its NOT 'rocket science' they are out there and if you pay attention, you can and will find them.......
Rod just looks harder and pays too much 8)
it makes it even harder when they are BOTH the same model, and the same number.....
:roll:
Rod just looks harder and pays too much 8)
it makes it even harder when they are BOTH the same model, and the same number.....
:roll:
OP
Anonymous
rugerguy said:
Wow. Where do you guys find these things? I had no idea that my simple little question would lead to such an interesting and informative series of comments.
A lot of these folks have been doing this for many, many years . . .
;)
;)
bigdawg, as I said for the MOST part it is paying attention at what you are really looking at, at any given gun show or even gun shop, and as these examples are from my wifes collection, and she has been doing this for over 30 plus years, and seriously, also displayed back in the early days, she helped and answered LOTS and LOTS of questions for people wanting to know, got so good at this , and learned, knows MORE than MOST ruger collectros she was even named an RCA ( Ruger Collectors Association) Field rep for the state of Ohio, she was and is still that GOOD ,but because she was "straight up" with all the people who came to her, she would often get some of this stuff come to her, as a "thank you" for the work she did,,,,she did not pay the big bucks, always said "good things will come to those that wait" and for her they did, like the 200006 RST in th epicture above, a fellow collector ,Bill Hall, found that one at an OGCA gun show, and offered it to here for just what he got it for $175, the other one ,the D gun I bought years ago at the Chagrin Falls Armory gun show for $225,and it is about flat out stone mint, ,in the box no less, what is a matched pair worth today?? have no clue , its not for sale, the 2720 gun, again found at different times the red eagle I bought her for $350 at a show, and the other , ,later made, unknown background came to us from a friend in Bowling green ,Ohio....he got it at Jacquas over near where he lives, and Don paid like $270 for it...............she also has a few "D" bearcats, she sold all of her "D" Single Sixes years ago, same went for the later Mk I's "D" guns, she sold all of them off, they did NOT "interest" her, all "too new" ??? go figure...........................as they say, read the books, and of course ,ASK questions, some of the guys are all to happy to help other out, sadly, some are ONLY in it for the money, and will NOT tell a 'stranger' the truth of just what they may be holding in their hand.............. :roll:
I get "chastised" all the time at the gun shows by "other dealers or table holders, they complain why did I tell a "stranger" who comes to the show with a gun they know NOTHING about, and I tell them what their gun was worth , and why, not just Rugers but many others as well..been at this a LONG time, know a bit over the years and can look up or find others to answer their questions...wish I had a PENNY for every gun I 'appraised' for an estate or an auction sale......... :shock:
I get "chastised" all the time at the gun shows by "other dealers or table holders, they complain why did I tell a "stranger" who comes to the show with a gun they know NOTHING about, and I tell them what their gun was worth , and why, not just Rugers but many others as well..been at this a LONG time, know a bit over the years and can look up or find others to answer their questions...wish I had a PENNY for every gun I 'appraised' for an estate or an auction sale......... :shock:
SATCOM
Blackhawk
Dan,
Speaking of serial numbers with letters and your wife, didn't she have a complete collection of alphabet Bearcats (AXXX-ZXXX except O) ?
SATCOM
Speaking of serial numbers with letters and your wife, didn't she have a complete collection of alphabet Bearcats (AXXX-ZXXX except O) ?
SATCOM
No Sir, she never wanted "all" of them, has an example of the 3 basic versions (types) of the early , middle and later models of the Bearcats. She only kept the ones she "liked" of the Bearcats, and only a few of the 'alphabet' ones, infact this past weekend we sold an "A" almost like new, and a "Q" that was "new in the box",she didn't want to keep them....Jeannine was the first major display of the Alphabet bearcats , and now the radical one has done one too. It can be done with not a lot of searching, looking and asking around,and pay enough for them, but yes over the years we probably had MOST of them at one time or another,just did not keep them,sold them to other collectors who were actively looking..........you know ,spread the wealth............. :roll: :wink:
No, I never wanted to keep any ,I'm NOT the "collector".......... 8)
No, I never wanted to keep any ,I'm NOT the "collector".......... 8)
OP
Anonymous
cellar701 said:
The serial number on the gun in question is D30-98494. As I mentioned earlier, it's a .357 from '71 with a 6.5-inch barrel.
I have no information yet as to whether it was a convertible.
It appears on Bob's List among the other "D" guns, most of which have indicated ship dates in 1971, although several show 1972. It was last seen on the Gunbroker site.
It's not indicated as being a convert, but ya never know. If you find out, please let us know.
And thanks for sharing.
:)
It's not indicated as being a convert, but ya never know. If you find out, please let us know.
And thanks for sharing.
:)
SATCOM
Blackhawk
Ale-1(8),
Is there a D version of this one 30-99310 on the list?
TKS
SATCOM
Is there a D version of this one 30-99310 on the list?
TKS
SATCOM
Nope.
Have 30-99303 amd 30-99372, though . . . neither is a "D" gun.
Is 30-99310 an actual gun? it's not on The List . . . yet.
Barrel length? Ship date? Any other info?
The last gun in the "D30- bunch" is D30-98906.
And there's a single D31- gun . . . D31-00036 . . . a 4-5/8" convertible.
Have 30-99303 amd 30-99372, though . . . neither is a "D" gun.
Is 30-99310 an actual gun? it's not on The List . . . yet.
Barrel length? Ship date? Any other info?
The last gun in the "D30- bunch" is D30-98906.
And there's a single D31- gun . . . D31-00036 . . . a 4-5/8" convertible.
OP
Anonymous
Ale-8(1) said:
Hm-m-m...I didn't see it on that list.
And yes, it was last seen on Gun Broker as recently as yesterday, but you won't be seeing it on that site any longer because I ended up buying the thing.
I may have it in my grubby little hands by this weekend. If not by then, no later than 9/30. I sometimes do things on the spur of the moment (and it often gets me in trouble), but I just decided to buy it to have something a bit different. That's not my photograph of it, by the way, it's just a shot off Gun Broker that shows the number.
I may send for a letter on it, but last time I sent for letters from Ruger, it took about five or six weeks, and except for giving the shipping date, the lack of info in the letters was mind boggling. I'd even asked specific questions about a particular gun, but the letter was the verbal equivalent of a blank look. The letters were not worth the time and money.
Thanks again for helping to make this such an interesting thread for me. I've learned a few things. I'll post some good photos of the gun when I get it and get it cleaned up.
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