BearStopper
Blackhawk
If a cylinder turn line on a revolver indicates an "issue" in timing or whatever, then how come every used revolver I have ever seen has a turn line?
Cylinder turn line????
- Thread starter BearStopper
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Skalkaho Slim
Blackhawk
Because a turn line is not always indicative of poor timing. :wink:
If that were the case, I as well as others have yet to see a revolver that was properly timed out of the who-knows-how-many revolvers we've seen collectively.
If that were the case, I as well as others have yet to see a revolver that was properly timed out of the who-knows-how-many revolvers we've seen collectively.
Driftwood Johnson
Blackhawk
Howdy
A turn line on a double action revolver is not an issue, it is normal. This is because with a double action revolver when the crane is closed, the cylinder is at a random position, and the bolt is up, pressing against the cylinder. So any subsequent turning of the cylinder will contribute to a turn line. Completely normal.
With a Ruger single action revolver, the timing is purposely designed so that the bolt rises very early. This also causes a turn line, but it is not a problem, that's the way Ruger designed them.
With a Colt or colt style single action lockwork, a turn line can be indicative of poor timing, or poor gun handling. Or both. The bolt will rise on a properly timed Colt so that it strikes the cylinder in the lead in to the locking slot. Over time a short line will be scribed in the lead in, but that is normal with a properly timed Colt. But not understanding how to handle a Colt can also scratch the cylinder. If the hammer is lowered from half cock, the bolt will rise up and be pressing against the cylinder. Any subsequent turning of the cylinder will contribute to a line. The proper way to handle a Colt is to NEVER lower the hammer from half cock. Always bring it all the way back to full cock, then lower it. This will reset the bolt, popping it up into the lead in to the locking slot where it belongs.
A properly timed Colt owned by somebody who understands how it works will not develop a turn line.
A turn line on a double action revolver is not an issue, it is normal. This is because with a double action revolver when the crane is closed, the cylinder is at a random position, and the bolt is up, pressing against the cylinder. So any subsequent turning of the cylinder will contribute to a turn line. Completely normal.
With a Ruger single action revolver, the timing is purposely designed so that the bolt rises very early. This also causes a turn line, but it is not a problem, that's the way Ruger designed them.
With a Colt or colt style single action lockwork, a turn line can be indicative of poor timing, or poor gun handling. Or both. The bolt will rise on a properly timed Colt so that it strikes the cylinder in the lead in to the locking slot. Over time a short line will be scribed in the lead in, but that is normal with a properly timed Colt. But not understanding how to handle a Colt can also scratch the cylinder. If the hammer is lowered from half cock, the bolt will rise up and be pressing against the cylinder. Any subsequent turning of the cylinder will contribute to a line. The proper way to handle a Colt is to NEVER lower the hammer from half cock. Always bring it all the way back to full cock, then lower it. This will reset the bolt, popping it up into the lead in to the locking slot where it belongs.
A properly timed Colt owned by somebody who understands how it works will not develop a turn line.
Boge
Single-Sixer
Driftwood is correct. That is why Colt removes the bolts from their SAA's at the SHOT Show as it "idiot proofs" them. :wink:
J Miller
Blackhawk
Properly handled double action revolvers will not have a full circumference drag line on the cylinder.
Each brand and design of DA revolvers will have some drag line from where the bolt rises as the cylinder rotates to lock. But if you see a DA revolver with a full circumference drag line, it's been miss handled.
Joe
Each brand and design of DA revolvers will have some drag line from where the bolt rises as the cylinder rotates to lock. But if you see a DA revolver with a full circumference drag line, it's been miss handled.
Joe
cwegga
Bearcat
J Miller":1bqsdy6x said:
That is not necessarily true. Just because some people do not like turn lines does not mean that it is mishandling to cause them. :wink: I plan on keeping my revolvers for life. Some people don't like turn lines and some people don't like engraving. That doesn't mean that it would be "mishandling" to have my initials engraved on my revolver... :lol:
Some of us have our revolvers for self defense etc. and don't always have the time to perfectly rotate and align the cylinder before closing it when reloading. It seems like you are confusing using a tool as it was meant to be used for "mishandling." I could keep my framing hammer scuff free if I wanted to not use it effectively, but that doesn't mean that it has been "mishandled" because it has scuffs and honest wear on it.
NMCB3
Bearcat
Thats BSJ Miller":3ey0rmdg said:
flatgate
Hawkeye
NMCB3":1mc39dg1 said:
Perhaps in your opinion. I side with Joe. My Double Action Ruger revolver does NOT have a 360° cylinder latch drag mark.
I choose to operate the revolver that way and that's no BS.
flatgate
Some revolver designs allow the latch (AKA-bolt) to drag on the cylinder during normal cycling. But some don't.
One can handle (or use) a revolver in such a manner that the latch will drag, whether it's designed that way or not.
To me that is a sign of mis-use.
Some manufactures fit their internals better than others, and some just plain don't care how stuff fits so long as the gun functions and fires.
Is a dragging latch a "safety feature" ? .....not in my book.
It might be unavoidable in DA guns due the mechanics and physics that's involved in the lockwork...but safer it aint.
Did Mr Ruger intend for his New Models' latch to drag?...heck, I dunno. What I DO know is.... An early rising latch don't make a revolver lock-up one bit better than a latch that don't drag. That, and it certainly causes a long scar beteen each chamber of the gun.
So if it don't serve a purpose, why is it there?....faulty design? Maybe a dragging latch is cheaper to make than a non-dragging latch? Maybe it just worked out that way and nobody at Ruger cares?...Again, I dunno.
I reckon ya pays your money and ya takes your choice.
DGW
One can handle (or use) a revolver in such a manner that the latch will drag, whether it's designed that way or not.
To me that is a sign of mis-use.
Some manufactures fit their internals better than others, and some just plain don't care how stuff fits so long as the gun functions and fires.
Is a dragging latch a "safety feature" ? .....not in my book.
It might be unavoidable in DA guns due the mechanics and physics that's involved in the lockwork...but safer it aint.
Did Mr Ruger intend for his New Models' latch to drag?...heck, I dunno. What I DO know is.... An early rising latch don't make a revolver lock-up one bit better than a latch that don't drag. That, and it certainly causes a long scar beteen each chamber of the gun.
So if it don't serve a purpose, why is it there?....faulty design? Maybe a dragging latch is cheaper to make than a non-dragging latch? Maybe it just worked out that way and nobody at Ruger cares?...Again, I dunno.
I reckon ya pays your money and ya takes your choice.
DGW
Unless there's something buggered up in the timing or it's been misused, a 3-screw should NOT have a turn line. All my Old Models have been shot (a lot) and don't have a line... a tiny bit of silver down in the lead-in is all.
The New Models, on the other hand, all seem to catch about halfway between the pockets, and have an interrupted turn line. Ain't seen one without it yet.
The New Models, on the other hand, all seem to catch about halfway between the pockets, and have an interrupted turn line. Ain't seen one without it yet.
mohavesam
Hawkeye
I have a Speed-Six that was re-timed by Ruger after some hard use. The cylinder was refinished also - and after more than ten years of seasonal shooting, some 1400-1600 rounds by my estimate, it shows no "ring".
Neither is there a ring on my Royal Blue Python, bought in '84 and fired many hundreds of +p and 357M.
Talk to a real S&W 'smith like Nelson Ford or Jim Clark Jr. They know how to time a revolver to eliminate the ring on the OD.
BTW - a careful de-burr/polish of the stop on a Ruger will do wonders. Do NOT round off the engagement edge.
Neither is there a ring on my Royal Blue Python, bought in '84 and fired many hundreds of +p and 357M.
Talk to a real S&W 'smith like Nelson Ford or Jim Clark Jr. They know how to time a revolver to eliminate the ring on the OD.
BTW - a careful de-burr/polish of the stop on a Ruger will do wonders. Do NOT round off the engagement edge.
flatgate
Hawkeye
DGW1949":2sagab7w said:
Absolutely! In his mind it was "better". I learned long ago how to rectify that situation...
flatgate
J Miller
Blackhawk
cwegga":2arsqopm said:J Miller":2arsqopm said:
That is not necessarily true. Just because some people do not like turn lines does not mean that it is mishandling to cause them. :wink: I plan on keeping my revolvers for life. Some people don't like turn lines and some people don't like engraving. That doesn't mean that it would be "mishandling" to have my initials engraved on my revolver... :lol:
Some of us have our revolvers for self defense etc. and don't always have the time to perfectly rotate and align the cylinder before closing it when reloading. It seems like you are confusing using a tool as it was meant to be used for "mishandling." I could keep my framing hammer scuff free if I wanted to not use it effectively, but that doesn't mean that it has been "mishandled" because it has scuffs and honest wear on it.
Actually your comment is the one that's not necessarily true. Currently I have only a couple double action revolvers. One of which is a S&W 25-5 in .45 Colt that has been my carry gun when I drove armored trucks. My desert gun, hiking gun, car gun, and is now my house gun. It's got upwards of 8,000 rounds of live ammo through it, and untold thousands of dry firing cycles. The cylinder has been opened and closed so many times only God would know the count.
Yet it DOES NOT have a full circumference drag line.
You can drop any and all excuses you want on me and I'll bounce them right back at you. I've used double actions in IPSC combat matches with multiple reloads ( competing against bottom feeders ) and never put a full circle drag line on one.
Nope, if there is no mechanical defect in the gun, a full circle drag line a sign of miss handling.
Joe
My Blackhawk retracts the bolt when the loading gate is opened. After loading, closing the gate brings the bolt back into contact with the cylinder, wherever the cylinder happens to be located at the time. And, in fact, this is usually far from the locking notch. If the cylinder is then rotated, you get a drag line from that point until it locks. Extended use over time will eventually build up a drag line pretty much all the way around. This does NOT constitute "mishandling" of the gun. In any case, a drag line does absolutely no harm to the gun, so this whole argument is rather pointless anyway.
My feelings on the matter too. "Mishandling" is using the gun as a hammer, or fanning the gun (without setting it for the operation as Bob Munden would do), or a myriad of things you can think of that might 'harm' the gun's operation.... My .02 cents
.SAJohn
Hunter
My 3 S&W's all drop the cylinder bolt lock at about half a turn between cylinders. It might as well be the whole cylinder.
I have one OM Blackhawk which was probably dry fired half to death. The cylinder stop was so worn down that it would drop early and ringed the cylinder. My few NM Blackhawks all have Iowegan's extended hammer plunger and no cylinder ring.
All of my OM blackhawks which I bought new have no ring. Same for my 2nd generation SAA.
SAJohn
I have one OM Blackhawk which was probably dry fired half to death. The cylinder stop was so worn down that it would drop early and ringed the cylinder. My few NM Blackhawks all have Iowegan's extended hammer plunger and no cylinder ring.
All of my OM blackhawks which I bought new have no ring. Same for my 2nd generation SAA.
SAJohn
JB696
Bearcat
On a properly timed SP101 or GP100, the cylinder latch will withdraw completely from the notch in the cylinder before the cylinder begins to turn. Then as the cylinder turns, the tip of the trigger plunger slips off the edge of the step on the front of the cylinder latch. And the latch will snap back up against the cylinder and ride along the surface until it reaches the next notch. How soon it snaps back against the cylinder can be varied by changing the length of the tip on the trigger plunger or the depth of the step on the cylinder latch. But it will ALWAYS contact the cylinder well before it gets near the next notch. This contact point will be 3/8 to 1/2 inch before the machined groove leading into the next notch. This will ALWAYS leave a turn line. And it will also eventually leave a mark where it first impacts the cylinder. Then NORMAL opening and closing of the crane assembly will eventually continue this turn line all the way around the cylinder. This is how the guns are designed. If you have one of this model of Ruger without a turn line, the gun is defective and needs to see a gunsmith. Either the cylinder latch is hanging up or the wrong trigger plunger was installed at the factory. Of course, I've only owned 60 of these guns in the last twenty years. So maybe I should defer to the "experts" here on the forum.
ab4ka
Single-Sixer
I'm missing something...how does a full circumference drag line on a DA revolver indicate mishandling? When I got my SP101 it had no drag line at all. Now it has a line, and I've done nothing but fire and dry fire it. The line has small gaps in it next to the notches in the cylinder, but it is there the rest of the way. Am I doing something wrong?
WESHOOT2
Hunter
I would have to get up and check my four DA Rugers.
Except I don't care.
Except I don't care.
