Richbaker
Blackhawk
Sports flyovers are typically done during a regular training mission, not usually scheduled special...
Navy jets at Idaho air show collide - crews eject safely
- Thread starter hpman66
- Start date
ProfessorWes
Hawkeye
Given how close they were to each other when they punched out, I'm betting there's four officers who were arguing with, and cussing, each other all the way to the ground, all the way back to base and probably for the rest of the day.
They might be going yet. Hopefully the crash investigation team is interviewing the crews in separate rooms. For safety.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
Year right. The NFL calls DoD and says, "Hey, we'd like a fly over." and the Navy or Air Force just happens to plan a training mission that will take them over a major city and stadium at a precise time.
I take it you were never military. It's called public relations. And it's worth every penny. As long as the crew survived that's all that matters. Combat aircraft are made to be destroyed. Crying over how it's done is a waste of time. If there was a cause, it' most likely that aircrews do not get near the flying hours as they once did. Why? Because some bean counter says "it's too expensive".
And it is, according to them, right up until their penny pinching costs someone their life. I lived that scenario, and it did cost an F-105 Wild Weasel pilot his life.
F-18's use Martin Baker. And in checking I found that over 7800 lives have been saved by Martin Baker seats alone. Those seats aren't perfect, I had an up close and personal experience with one that malfunctioned. Hey, they are made by man, failures are going to happen.
Open that door and every government agency will be spending taxpayers money to make themselves look better in the eyes of the taxpayer. No thanks. It might be "worth it" to Israel, but not to us.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
That's what they claim. It's for self agrandizement. The people who go to air shows are usually already people who are pro-military. No hearts or minds being won.
I think that it is cheaper to train a new pilot than buy a new plane.
Made to be destroyed? I thought "survivability" was the important thing. Remember what Patton said, "No bastard ever won a war by giving his life for his country."
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RonEgg
Buckeye
I have just watched a video with the midair as the subject and will attempt to add it to this post.
First many of my assumptions of this incident were wrong. These crews were all instructors, selected and trained by the command for these type of events.
Included in that video is the standard sequence of events, qualifications required of the crew as well as names of the crews, although not the names of the crews in this incident.
First many of my assumptions of this incident were wrong. These crews were all instructors, selected and trained by the command for these type of events.
Included in that video is the standard sequence of events, qualifications required of the crew as well as names of the crews, although not the names of the crews in this incident.
Yaworski
Hawkeye
Sadly, they already do. The FBI's Citizen Academy, Junior Forest Ranger programs, DARE, etc, etc.
The planes are made to be destroyed in that they are sacrificial in keeping the pilots alive. And if you believe a mechanical item is more important than a human life, I will pray for you, cuz you are going to need it.
I guess Israel and the Jews have a permanent lease on your brain. You just can't seem to resist trying to blame everything on the Jews. Pathetic.
ChrisL
Single-Sixer
This is a rediculous waste of our tax dollars. These are electronic warfare planes, not fighters. And unlike the outfits like Blue Angels, which are dedicated 100% to air show type events, this is a "side hustle" for the pilots. They cannot be good enough just taking time off from regular warfighter duties. It's great that the crew survived. But the cost to us is very high. And ... why are there 2 crew members in each plane? The non-pilots have no role in aerobatics, so they are just cannon fodder.
oldmarine69
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- May 19, 2017
- Messages
- 118
Breaking from all the speculatin' and guesstimatin' a bit here, but I'm reminded of this little tale, although I suspect it to be mere rumor, since a former Soldier shared it with me, and any Marine will tell you Soldier's aren't to be trusted.
Three guys, one Navy, one Air Force, one Marine, were hanging out together, each waxing nostalgia, when a military jet flew over.
The Air Force guy looked up, smiled, and just marveled at the sleek beauty and speed of that aircraft;
The Swabbie, (oops, I'm sorry,) the Navy guy looked up, and said, that is such an aviation and engineering miracle;
The Marine starred at the jet for a few seconds, slightly cocked his head, pointed and said ---oooh-oooh-oooh!
Have a great day everybody. Don't forget to laugh, hard and often. Laughter is much cheaper than therapy.
Three guys, one Navy, one Air Force, one Marine, were hanging out together, each waxing nostalgia, when a military jet flew over.
The Air Force guy looked up, smiled, and just marveled at the sleek beauty and speed of that aircraft;
The Swabbie, (oops, I'm sorry,) the Navy guy looked up, and said, that is such an aviation and engineering miracle;
The Marine starred at the jet for a few seconds, slightly cocked his head, pointed and said ---oooh-oooh-oooh!
Have a great day everybody. Don't forget to laugh, hard and often. Laughter is much cheaper than therapy.
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There is a YT channel called Blancoliriio, the narrator is retired military pilot and I believe is currently still a commercial pilot.
He really tore up the incident and went into depth as to what the maneuver was supposed to look like. He claimed the pilots of the Growlers were not full time demonstration pilots, basically part time air show pilots. His feeling was that demo team pilots should be full time demo team only and it was too dangerous to do otherwise.
Blancolirio’s YT channel reviews/breaks down tons of aviation mishaps. Another one is called PILOT DEBRIEF, another excellent channel by a retired F-15 driver and current commercial pilot. And there’s CAPTAIN STEVE who is former Navy pilot, and recently retired commercial pilot. All three do an outstanding fact based accounting of aviation mishaps.
He really tore up the incident and went into depth as to what the maneuver was supposed to look like. He claimed the pilots of the Growlers were not full time demonstration pilots, basically part time air show pilots. His feeling was that demo team pilots should be full time demo team only and it was too dangerous to do otherwise.
Blancolirio’s YT channel reviews/breaks down tons of aviation mishaps. Another one is called PILOT DEBRIEF, another excellent channel by a retired F-15 driver and current commercial pilot. And there’s CAPTAIN STEVE who is former Navy pilot, and recently retired commercial pilot. All three do an outstanding fact based accounting of aviation mishaps.
The guy in back has a lot more to do than just sit there. In addition, he can and is qualified to fly it should the pilot become incapacitated. I suppose if a two seater went down because it only had one pilot on board with a medical emergency you'd complain about that too.
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I am a complainer about our gigantic over built military industrial complex, Eisenhower warned us of what would happen if we did not curtail it.
But in this instance I'm not going to jump on the demeaning band wagon... we need to show off like this and I'm going to also say I'm glad the pilots survived.... I'm also going to speculate that the crash was not pilot error but either mechanical or a wind induced fluke.
But in this instance I'm not going to jump on the demeaning band wagon... we need to show off like this and I'm going to also say I'm glad the pilots survived.... I'm also going to speculate that the crash was not pilot error but either mechanical or a wind induced fluke.
What's the excuse when two Navy ships crash into each other?
Yaworski
Hawkeye
A friend of a friend's career ended because of that. Naval Academy grad, dad was a flag officer, as was granddad. The CO's career ended as well as did the career of the OOD.
Still wondering about the pilots ... but it seems they are physically okay... at least reports are they are all in 'stable condition' but nothing I can find on the internet with a quick search is really current.
https://www.military.com/four-navy-aviators-survive-midair-collision-at-idaho-air-show
From what little I know, punching out of and up through the cockpit of a fighter jet is not something one really wants to do and there is a good chance of being injured from it... but like I said, it is only what I've heard somewhere along the way.....
https://www.military.com/four-navy-aviators-survive-midair-collision-at-idaho-air-show
From what little I know, punching out of and up through the cockpit of a fighter jet is not something one really wants to do and there is a good chance of being injured from it... but like I said, it is only what I've heard somewhere along the way.....
Spinal compression injuries are quite common. Some end up with permanent injury and never fly military again. But as opposed to being dead...
There are other injuries that can happen from the air blast when they leave the aircraft, or injuries sustained when then land. Pilots don't really get a lot of parachute training. And, if like this incident, they eject at a low altitude there isn't much time to prepare to land. Also it looks like they were 70 to 80 degrees off vertical when they ejected.
Note, the seats I am familiar with wouldn't eject the pilot beyond a certain degree off vertical. Some early seats would actually eject with the aircraft inverted. Not to mention a few aircraft that ejected downward.
The best setup was the B-58 Hustler or F-111 Aardvark. The entire cockpit ejected and the crew left the pod only when it was on the ground. The pod was also a lifeboat. So you ask, why don't all aircraft have something similar? Bean counters. If it were up to the aircrews that fly the aircraft in combat every aircraft would have a pod of some sort.
Even further out there are AERCAB systems that were essentially a small rocket powered glider.
There are other injuries that can happen from the air blast when they leave the aircraft, or injuries sustained when then land. Pilots don't really get a lot of parachute training. And, if like this incident, they eject at a low altitude there isn't much time to prepare to land. Also it looks like they were 70 to 80 degrees off vertical when they ejected.
Note, the seats I am familiar with wouldn't eject the pilot beyond a certain degree off vertical. Some early seats would actually eject with the aircraft inverted. Not to mention a few aircraft that ejected downward.
The best setup was the B-58 Hustler or F-111 Aardvark. The entire cockpit ejected and the crew left the pod only when it was on the ground. The pod was also a lifeboat. So you ask, why don't all aircraft have something similar? Bean counters. If it were up to the aircrews that fly the aircraft in combat every aircraft would have a pod of some sort.
Even further out there are AERCAB systems that were essentially a small rocket powered glider.
