What is the ultimate . . . . .

[m657]

I've come to recognize what 'standard design features' seem to serve *MY* needs best. Trial and error (ah! error, what be thy name?) shows the typical minimal 'buff & polish' kind of things that help me get the most accuracy/reliability/pleasure out of a particular gun.

Leaping in with the 'too much is not enough' is a phase I'd wager most RF members have managed to leave behind them.

 

[CraigC]

I don't need to shoot a new 10/22 to know that it is not going to yield half inch groups at 50yds or better. I don't need to send 1000rds downrange to realize that the trigger is never going to be what I want it to be without help. I don't need to burn two bricks to realize that the stock doesn't fit. The fact that I need a better barrel, target trigger and a stock that fits does not mean that I can't shoot.

Just as equipment will never make up for a lack of shooting skill, no amount of practice and shooting skill can make up for the shortcomings of the equipment.

You cannot always buy what you want. Sometimes you have to build it, or enlist the help of a professional.

Some people are satisfied with guns as they come out of the box. This is irrelevant to those who are not.

 

[1gunsnotenough]

It is amazing the number of people that buy a new .22 and immediately want to know
what the "best" or "ultimate" what-ever there is for their new toy. We see an equal
number of people that want to know what to change. Why?


The trigger is one of the main items that tends to smooth out from use. Why not
give it the chance to improve, by itself?

The other question to those that buy a gun and immediately want to "improve" it
is . . . . why didn't you buy what you wanted, to start with? That will save you time,
money, and in many cases, frustration.

Have fun, shoot safe.

A. We were all new at this once. Most of the people that ask about what to do I would assume are new.

B. Triggers may smooth out but I have never seen any that lighten up much. Most of my shooters have triggers under 3 lbs. My Competition 1911 is 1.2 lbs.

C. Not everyone can afford the gun they want first. So they have to do improvements as they can afford it. I remember when I started shooting IPSC in 1990. Started out with Colt National Match about 800$ then. Then in order to run with the big dogs had a Para P14 limited gun built with most of the bells and whistles cost about $1400. Then to went to Para P16 full house limited gun $2500( back then you could not get today's custom features on a factory gun). At that time took me about 3 years to to be able to afford last gun and to develop the skills to justify the $$ spent.

 

[gtxmonte]

Really..........whats the point in putting a 1000 rounds down range in a gun with a junk trigger, because when you get that done it will STILL have a junk trigger. They may get "smoother" whatever that means, but they don't get lighter, nor loose creep and over travel.

 

[CraigC]

Exactly!

Methinks 'some' folks are completely satisfied with box stock 10/22's and can't understand why everyone else doesn't feel the same way.

 

[jadek44]

Just buy a Marlin Model 60 and you're all set. No need for mods. Why buy a gun you're not going to be happy with from day 1??

 

[gtxmonte]

Just buy a Marlin Model 60 and you're all set. No need for mods. Why buy a gun you're not going to be happy with from day 1??

Why buy a house and repaint a room, or change the landscaping?..........why buy a truck and change the wheels, or add accessories?..........why reload and tinker, isn't factory ammo "good enough"?...........why do ANYTHING?............because you want it like YOU want it and everybody does NOT have the same wants or needs. Nor can you always buy EXACTLY what you want.

As far as guns...........do you want to just shoot it, or do you actually want the gun to "SHOOT" and there IS a difference.

I have a match grade Kimber 22 rifle. Do I expect my 10/22s to shoot as well.........No, but I know I can make it shoot LOTS better than it comes out of the box.

 

[wwb]

You can usually tell a new shooter by the questions asked, and the decent thing to do is to respond in a civil manner, and give responsible advice.

In the case of a 10/22, the best thing a new shooter can do is fix the trigger.... and that's really the only thing that needs to be done until his shooting ability has progressed to where he could benefit from some more exotic (and expensive) mods. If the stock trigger is like dragging a piano down a gravel road, the benefit will be immediate and obvious... but a crisp 3 pound trigger is all that would be needed.

 

[Shooter III]

We all know there are dozens of different .22 ammo available to us, which all feed, fire, and eject with its own behavior, thus making .22's finicky. One of the reasons I bought a Ruger .22 semi-auto is I believe it is the best .22 pistol money can buy. If you want to make your Ruger MARK I, II or III sing like a banshee I humbly suggest doing the following modifications as I have, please don't misunderstand the intent of this post, I'm not bragging (maybe just a wee bit). Regardless, I have enjoyed making an awesome pistol better, I love tinkering with it. Here is a list of the mods I've done to my Ruger MK III 22/45.

1.) I installed this kit >>> https://www.volquartsen.com/products/1067-bolt-tune-up-kit-for-mki-mkii-and-mkiii <<< This is an awesome upgrade as Ruger uses stamped steel parts, the firing pin tip is .004 inch wider and hardened, the extractor has crisp right angles, is .005 inch wider at the hook and hardened as well, since I used these parts I have had zero failures to feed and eject, except for maybe one out of a several hundred fail to fire, if that, after all .22 ammo is finicky.
2.) After running 500 rounds through it I looked at the wear marks on the bolt and then took a Dremel with a cloth wheel and Flitz Polish and buffed up the bolt in those areas, it slides buttery smooth now.
3.) I also used the Flitz polish to buff the sear, hammer, and other internal parts, now my trigger pull is clean, crisp, and breaks at 3 ½ pounds versus the 5 ½ as it came from the factory, I'll never buy another aftermarket trigger kit again …. Polish I say … Polish.
4.) I took out all the Mag-disconnect parts and installed a MARK II hammer bushing, this is an awesome Mod as well, now the dis-assembly and re-assembly process is simple and mags fall to the ground upon release instead of hanging up on the disconnect arm.
5.) I did the Slingshot mod by grinding two slots on the Bolt Hold Open arm with my Dremel, thus creating a small post, then I used the spring from inside the Bolt release detent knob on that arm which rests on the bottom of the barrel / receiver out of the way of bolt operation, after lock-up on last round fired I drop the empty mag, slam in a full mag and with a slight pull on the bolt ears the bolt now slingshots forward like any other Full Sized pistol chambering a new round without having to fiddle with that stiff bolt release button.
6.) I took out the steel blade on the LCI (loaded chamber indicator) which I feel caused a few failures to feed.
7.) I took up 2/3's of my trigger pre-travel by drilling a small hole in the same area that an aftermarket Target trigger would have a set screw, then through trial and error I placed a small metal rod in the hole, BINGO, 2/3's of pre-travel gone.
8.) Installed a Tactical Solutions fiber optic Hi-Viz front sight.
9.) Modified my mags to hold 11 rounds by shortening the pin which sits inside and on top of the mag spring.
10.) Shortly after I bought my Mark III 22/45 they came out with the model that has replaceable grip panels (Dang-it !) so I had a guy mill off the grip panels which are molded into the lower and install 1911 style bushings and grip screws …. Now my choices on grips is almost endless.

 

[Varminterror]

I have yet to find a factory model that is exactly the way I want it.

Putting quotation marks around "Improvements" the way you have is really implying that you don't believe that factory firearms can be improved. I've owned over 300 firearms in the last 20yrs, and have yet to find a single one that didn't need SOME KIND of action work, refinement, etc to bring it up to my standards. I buy factory firearms with the intent of modifying them, as it's often cheaper to do that than buying custom actions and paying a smith to build them. Even on affordable rimfires rifles, adding a bedding job will almost always make MEASURABLE IMPROVEMENTS in accuracy.

Another "improvement" might be a duracoat/cerakoe/hydrographic finish job, transforming a black synthetic and blued rifle into a concealable game getter. There is no black in nature, and too many of these low quality "blued" finishes that are so common these days LOOK black, let alone the cheap tupperware black stocks they strap them into. Should an animal ever be able to spot your rifle before you ventilated it? Not really, but some times they have keener eyes than we do. I'm not a "camo gun" guy, but I'm much more into camo guns than black guns (referring only to finish, not to AR's).

The "wear it in" trigger job is a joke to me. Nothing but a great opportunity to ruin what could have been a good trigger by working it over itself with uneven sear engagement and rough mating surfaces. It'll slick up as one surface eats away the other, but it'll always feel "grittier" and have a rougher travel than a properly tuned trigger. A heavy spring will work in with a bit of use, but it's still a heavy spring. A 14lb mainspring will never become a 9lb mainspring, even if it might lighten up from a factory 16lb over strength to a regular 14lb.

And of course, there are those of us that want our guns to look as good as they shoot. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you can't please everybody, but I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing some embellishment on a firearm that you're going to build memories with in the field.

If you don't want to modify your firearms or have them professionally modified, that's fine, they're your guns. But there's no real sense in diminishing the REAL advantage of action jobs and trigger jobs that other people want in their firearms just because they have different standards than you.

 

[Varminterror]

I have yet to find a factory model that is exactly the way I want it.

Putting quotation marks around "Improvements" the way you have is really implying that you don't believe that factory firearms can be improved. I've owned over 300 firearms in the last 20yrs, and have yet to find a single one that didn't need SOME KIND of action work, refinement, etc to bring it up to my standards. I buy factory firearms with the intent of modifying them, as it's often cheaper to do that than buying custom actions and paying a smith to build them. Even on affordable rimfires rifles, adding a bedding job will almost always make MEASURABLE IMPROVEMENTS in accuracy.

Another "improvement" might be a duracoat/cerakoe/hydrographic finish job, transforming a black synthetic and blued rifle into a concealable game getter. There is no black in nature, and too many of these low quality "blued" finishes that are so common these days LOOK black, let alone the cheap tupperware black stocks they strap them into. Should an animal ever be able to spot your rifle before you ventilated it? Not really, but some times they have keener eyes than we do. I'm not a "camo gun" guy, but I'm much more into camo guns than black guns (referring only to finish, not to AR's).

The "wear it in" trigger job is a joke to me. Nothing but a great opportunity to ruin what could have been a good trigger by working it over itself with uneven sear engagement and rough mating surfaces. It'll slick up as one surface eats away the other, but it'll always feel "grittier" and have a rougher travel than a properly tuned trigger. A heavy spring will work in with a bit of use, but it's still a heavy spring. A 14lb mainspring will never become a 9lb mainspring, even if it might lighten up from a factory 16lb over strength to a regular 14lb.

And of course, there are those of us that want our guns to look as good as they shoot. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you can't please everybody, but I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing some embellishment on a firearm that you're going to build memories with in the field.

If you don't want to modify your firearms or have them professionally modified, that's fine, they're your guns. But there's no real sense in diminishing the REAL advantage of action jobs and trigger jobs that other people want in their firearms just because they have different standards than you.

 

[gatorhugger]

Last time I took one of my MK3 out to the club, this guy walks up and tells me it's nice, but I must get this trigger set, and I must get his grips, and must get his sight. didn't know him from Adam. I think he wanted to show me his gun so I dutifully walked over and checked it out. Nice. He was grinning like a kid when I squeezed his 3 oz trigger. I am glad he was happy, I was happy that he was happy. I didn't change a thing on my gun except the grips to another style I liked. People are like that with a lot of guns, and of course AR15 nuts are the worst.

 

[Shooter III]

"I didn't change a thing on my gun except the grips to another style I liked. People are like that with a lot of guns, and of course AR15 nuts are the worst."

Ummm, yea, sure, I disagree .. .. .. women that are really into horses are worse ! :lol:

 

[Pat-inCO]

If you don't want to modify your firearms or have them professionally modified, that's fine, they're your guns. But there's no real sense in diminishing the REAL advantage of action jobs and trigger jobs that other people want in their firearms just because they have different standards than you.

Go back to the original post. My complaint is the people, many with little or
no experience, go out and buy a gun and . . . immediately . . . ask about what
the best mod's are or what they should change.

To those people I say, just shoot it for a while. Once you have 500 or a
thousand rounds through it, THEN decide if you need to change anything.

As to the trigger and rough parts making things worse, isn't that what
manufacturers warranties are for? If you have NOT changed anything,
the manufacturer will fix what ever was wrong. If you went in and changed
parts, they will tell you to take a hike.

 

[REP1954]

Do I smell fish?

 

[Varminterror]

What does 500-1,000 rounds do for a gun? A rough or ill-fit bolt will mar its receiver, or vice versa, whereas you could have fixed that straight away. A gritty trigger will start to FEEL smoother a bit by nature, as the rough edge of either the trigger or sear might route it's own groove into the mating part, which might end up in an unsafe trigger condition a couple thousand rounds later (been there on a Marlin 60) - cleaning up those surfaces right off the bat would prevent any of that damage. An 11lb Ruger DA trigger will never become a an 8 1/2lb trigger just by "breaking it in".

Leave your guns bone stock if you want, but don't mislead others to believe that a knocking motor will flatten its own idle just by running it down the road a few thousand miles.