SR1911 and Federal Ammo

[Steve4cr]

Hi
I purchased a SR1911 last week. Loved the look and feel. Bought a box of Federal .45 and went out the forest to fire it. I found it would never chamber the second round after firing the first shot. The slide would be about 1/8 inch from home. Slamming it forward would send it home but would not fire. The only way to get it out was to grab the slide with a full grip and slam the grip with my other hand. This is dangerous with a live round. I put about 20 or so rounds through it 1 at a time to see if it just needed a break in. No help

I have see others with this same issue and they sent it back to Ruger for a repair. So, I sent mine back to Ruger. I live in Phoenix so it got there in 1 day and I got it back in 1 day. The changed the slide and repaired the extractor. Performed a safety check and fired 28 rounds through it.

Went down to the local range and paid my $17 and fired the first round (same Federal) and same exact problem. Will NEVER fully chamber a second round and needs a hand slam to get the live round out.

So my question is, does anyone use the Federal 45 Auto 230 Grain FMJ RN typically found at Walmart? I would like to know before Ruger blames the ammo. Not sure if I want a handgun that is this fussy about ammo.

Thanks
Steve

 

[LaneP]

I haven't fired any of the recent production Federal ball but past experience with it has been trouble free.

What I would do in a case like that is remove my barrel, then take one of the suspect cartridges and drop it into the chamber. If the cartridges freely enters the chamber and the cartridge rim falls at least even with the end of the barrel hood, you've eliminated 3 dimensional aspects of the loaded ammo (case length, bullet seating depth and diameter).

Next it is going to either be the rim dimension of the cartridge or the profile or tension (or both) of your extractor. The cartridge rim needs to be able to slip up under the extractor as the slide pushes it up the feed ramp into the chamber.

With your slide removed, see if the rim of the cartridge will slide into place under the extractor. How difficult or easy it is to do will give you clues if the cartridge rim dimension is not the same as other ammo that feeds reliably or if your extractor is excessively tensioned or too square on the bottom edge. Excessive extractor tension and profiling can be corrected by the do-it-yourselfer but if you're not confident with the process, send it to Ruger explaining what you think is the matter. Most 1911 extractors benefit by having a slight radius or rounding of the square edge of the bottom of the hook to prevent binding against the cartridge rim.

If it's the cartridge rim dimension and tuning or shaping your extractor doesn't improve reliability with it, the ammo just isn't going to work in that particular pistol.

 

[Steve4cr]

Thank you Highspeedlane for you reply. I have heard of the test you mentioned sometimes referred as the plunk test. I did try that and it seemed to drop OK but I cannot be completely sure as this is not a very scientific test.
As for the aforementioned "Slide removed, see if the rim of the cartridge will slide into place under the extractor", I am confused as to this as the extractor is part of the slide (I believe, I am not familiar with 1911).
What I am hoping to get is some people with the SR1911 who have experience with this model and the Federal ammo. If I see that the majority of people use this popular ammo with no problems, mine should also. Thus Ruger should make it work. If I get reports that it is fussy about ammo, I am not sure if I even want it.

Do you own the SR1911and have you used the Federal rounds?

Thanks again
Steve

 

[Pat-inCO]

First, try another brand. Where you live it is easy to travel a relatively
short distance and find a safe place to shoot (save the $17). If it works
properly, dig out some calipers and measure the Federals. If the diameter
is correct (implication is yes, because the first round fires correctly) then
check the overall length. Once again, since the first round works fine,
it probably is good.

Try shooting ten, one at a time. Load one in the mag, shoot it, drop the
mag and load one again.

What are you using for lubrication, oil or grease? If you have it greased,
that could easily be your problem.

One other thing to try: get some snap caps and load the magazine.
Hand cycle it to see that all of the snap caps feed/eject correctly.

Last thing is to have a friend that KNOWS 1911s try it. I have a buddy
that could not get his to feed/function properly. He asked me to try it
and I used his gun, his ammo, his magazine . . . and had no problem.

By the time you have done all of the above, you should know what your
problem is. You will have isolated: ammo, lubrication and user, one at
a time. I believe you will know by then.

 

[LaneP]

Hey Steve,

I have the SR1911 CMD that I shoot quite a bit but all my shooting is with handloads using mainly R-P, Winchester and Starline brass.

My Ruger has been flawless with that. I have no experience with current production factory ammo, including Federal.

As others suggest, try another brand and if you have similar issues, you can zero right in on the extractor as the culprit. I don't have access to my camera at the moment or I would post up pictures for you.

I should be able to do so later in the afternoon 3 or 4 hours from now. I'd like to take a pic of the extractor profile I'm talking about to give you an idea of how a correctly shaped extractor should look.

 

[Steve4cr]

Thanks for the input guys. I do live in the PHX area and the nearest desert spot is about 40 minutes and the range is 10 minutes and it is 110 degrees here. I do believe that if I get some different ammo I may have success but would still like to hear from a Federal user. If Federal works for some or many users, it should work on mine.
I am far from a gunsmith and need practice on just doing the breakdown (took me an hour to get it back together)

Here is where I am.
Gun purchase $650
1st box Federal $24
2nd Box Federal $38 (all they had where I went)
Range visit $18
Timer off work to wait for Fedex, priceless


Thanks for the input
Steve

 

[DGW1949]

Over the years, I've fired 1000's of rounds of Federal .45ACP through various pistols and have yet to have a problem.
Most recently, a box of 50 were used to function-test my Son in Law's new SR1911.

Unless both of the boxes you bought came from a bad batch, your problem lies elsewhere.

DGW

 

[Steve4cr]

OK, glad to hear from someone who has tried the ammo. Actually. I did not crack the new box (I know stupid but I was disgusted and wanted to leave).
Called Ruger and was told that if I am only planning on using 1 type of ammo perhaps this is not the gun for me.
I own 5 Rugers and this will be my last

Will try some more brands tomorrow. Cha Ching.

 

[Steve4cr]

Add this - just bought 2 boxes American Eagle and remington
Gun purchase $650
1st box Federal $24
2nd Box Federal $38 (all they had where I went)
Range visit $18
Timer off work to wait for Fedex, priceless

1 box American Eagle 27.00
1 box Remington 28.00

 

[LaneP]

So this is some informational pics I mentioned. I don't recommend you perform any mechanical adjustments unless you feel 110% confident in your abilities and are aware of the potential consequences.

Pic showing the vicinity of the slide and ejection port of my SR1911 CMD:

This pic shows what I was referring to with regard to the radius (rounding off) of the lower portion of the extractor. Arrow points to area that is rounded so that as the cartridge is being driven out of the magazine and into the chamber, binding between cartridge body and extractor is minimized:

The extractor shown is Ruger factory and is correctly tensioned and shaped. This pistol has fed nearly 2000 rounds flawlessly. Pic below illustrates a loaded cartridge seated against the breech face. I can seat it in position with only finger pressure, but the extractor firmly grips it in place. Arrow 1 shows there is adequate clearance between facing edge of extractor and cartridge, and Arrow 2 is the portion of the extractor applying gripping pressure to hold the cartridge in place:

Again, this is just gee-whiz info. If you retest your pistol with different ammo and it shoots everything clean you're good to go. Others have mentioned ensuring correct recoil spring is being used (which should be the case since your pistol is new) and slide is adequately lubed.

However excluding lube, recoil spring tension and properly dimensioned ammo, an improperly adjusted extractor will definitely contribute to the problems you've described. Best of luck and don't give up because it's a great pistol for its price point.

 

[Steve4cr]

Nice pics, thanks.
My plan is to break it down (I'll look at the extractor and try to take pics), clean and lube and then head for the desert first thing in the AM.

I do like the pistol but I currently own 7 handguns and 5 rifles and ALL fire with any ammo I feed them. This is new to me and dangerous with that live round in the chamber.

Thanks again

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I own 2 Ruger SR 1911`s, one 5" and one CMD and will be picking up my third,a CMD monday.
I have only fired one box of factory loads (Remington) inthe 5" and none in the CMD but have fired lots of reloads. My brass is mixed with about 20% of it being Federal. I have had exactly ZERO feed problems with either gun.
That said, and you are happy with the plunk test, you are shooting ball ammo. The problem is there when using either of your magazines and you feel the extractor is ok (Ruger surely checked that) and the slide is lubricated, I am at a loss as what the problem is. I just wish I could take a look at it in person.
I was a small arms repairman in the army and could disassemble a 1911 in my sleep.
I still would bet that your ammo is out of spec. . A different lot number may run as slick as anything in your gun.

 

[dakota1911]

The Federal Champion ammo? The bullet sort of has a frosty look? It has a small primer which is pistol I assume. The base on the ones I have is not totally flat. Sort of dished in.

My wife called me from a WalMart that we usually do not go to and asked me if there was anything I wanted her to pick up. I asked her about .45, 9mm, and .22 ammo. No .22. She got 100 rounds of 9mm and the limit was two boxes of .45. (In this case thank you limit).

Never shot it in my SR1911CMD. Shot it in my Colt new Series 70 and got similar results. Thing is I had over 800 rounds through the Colt so ammo jumped to the forefront. Finished it off in a Ruger/Lipsey convertible SA revolver with the .45 ACP cylinder. They all went bang but the groups opened way from the ammo I had been shooting.

Try different ammo before condemning the pistol.

I will say that my SR1911CMD I bought new in Jan. 2013 has been impressive. I have shot over 1K rounds of a bunch of different ammo through it, including the Aluminum CCI Blazer and Russian steel cased stuff.

I would try different ammo.

 

[Steve4cr]

OK, took it apart and cleaned & oiled it.

Here are some photos of the extractor on Dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6lw8t95jaehy1yd/AAA4TCxrpnKCUkJfSCz3Ac4Ga

 

[LaneP]

Definitely looks like your typical Ruger 1911 extractor. Once you're able to retest with a different brand you're going to know much more.

Looking forward to your update and thanks for sharing. I know it can be tuned up to feed any SAAMI spec ammo. Federal should be no different than any other out there as they have been around a long time.

 

[Pat-inCO]

A few links on tuning the extractor.

http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/tuning-the-m1911-for-reliability/
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10261/learn/1911_Auto_Extractor_Adjustment

 

[Steve4cr]

OK, went to the range and here are the results

American Eagle (these are made by Federal)-(Ruger says they use these for testing.) I had the same issue as the Federals. Would not cycle the 2nd round, jammed and needed to smack the grip to free it.

Winchester sXz-Went through the whole box and had about 3 or 4 jam. In a different way. I Did not need to smack as hard to free it.


All the talk of the extractor possibly being an issue. The empty round ejects (extracts) fine. It is the next one in line does not chamber and jams in there.
The range I wen to is pretty strict and luckily they didn't see me smacking the grip while holding the slide.


Well the store I got it at is graciously going to return it to the distributer for a new one. He said it should feed these types of ammo.

 

[LaneP]

Glad to hear they are going to replace it for you. It should feed any SAAMI spec ammo all day.

Let us know how the replacement shoots. It can happen with the best of makers. I know from reports across the web as well as my own experience with it they will digest anything you feed them when correctly tuned up.

 

[y2k-fxst]

I have shot hundreds of rounds of Federals through my SR1911, never any problem. I have had both the 50 round boxes and the 100 round boxes. Have probably shot 500+ rounds of Federal in the past year.

I was surprised that the ballistics are different between the 2. The 50 round boxes of 230 grain FMJ RN are rated at 830 fps at the muzzle and 352 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. The 100 round boxes of 230 grain FMJ RN are rated at 890 fps at the muzzle and 405 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Both are standard Federal small primer cases. Both have been bought at Walmart depending on what they have in stock.

 

[Steve4cr]

Thanks Y2k, that's what I wanted to hear. I'm getting a new gun and I am hoping it shoots all or at least most ammo.