Difference between new and old model vaquero's ?
- Thread starter kemper
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5of7
Hunter
An attempt has been made above to connect the old Vaquero term to safety.
I disagree with that because to say "old model Vaquero" would not serve to cause one to infer that the old Vaquero was safe when it wasn't, it would more likely serve to cause one to think that it was unsafe, when it is, thereby encouraging caution, albeit unnecessary caution......a good thing.
Actually I think it is far more dangerous to simply refer to the old model Vaquero as a Vaquero because one can't be 100% sure that it is in fact the old version that is being discussed rather than a new Vaquero without the "new" attachment.
Now, that misconception, coupled with a discussion of hand loads could lead to a blown up gun and possible serious injury to the shooter.
By all means, whenever discussing the Vaquero, new OR old, take the time to be sure that the reader of the post knows for sure which model you are talking about.
I disagree with that because to say "old model Vaquero" would not serve to cause one to infer that the old Vaquero was safe when it wasn't, it would more likely serve to cause one to think that it was unsafe, when it is, thereby encouraging caution, albeit unnecessary caution......a good thing.
Actually I think it is far more dangerous to simply refer to the old model Vaquero as a Vaquero because one can't be 100% sure that it is in fact the old version that is being discussed rather than a new Vaquero without the "new" attachment.
Now, that misconception, coupled with a discussion of hand loads could lead to a blown up gun and possible serious injury to the shooter.
By all means, whenever discussing the Vaquero, new OR old, take the time to be sure that the reader of the post knows for sure which model you are talking about.
5of7 said:
I'm with you on this, although "knowledge" that (to date) .44 Specials alone are the only anomaly you speak of--*should* be enough. Any other calibers and folks *should* be ok with the "just Vaquero" moniker. Still, your point(s) are well taken for yet another unfortunate reason: that is - particularly since Ruger has further exaccerbated things by themselves referring to ALL New Vaqueros as just "Vaqueros" in their recent(year?) literature. THAT is even more perplexing than the one (again, to date) "screw up" on the actual gun with the .44 Special...which is the sort of thing that maybe (?) shouldn't but "can" happen.
reuben_j_cogburn
Blackhawk
Yeah..... which is better for bear defense?
Hondo44
Hawkeye
gak said:
gak,
That would make yours look like a Montado but in 44 Spl, very cool!
I do more target work with my blue 44 Spl Flattop. So I installed the Montado diamond checkered SBH hammer in it and the SS Montado grip frame with the grooves in the front strap w/o the lock along with a SBH grooved trigger. It looks as good as it shoots.
CraigC
Hawkeye
That blued, short barrelled New Vaquero is a great lookin' little sixgun!
CraigC said:
To Jim Miller and CraigC: Let me qualify my statement by saying I am what others on this forum referred to as "newest newbie". I joined this forum because I enjoy and appreciate Ruger firearms. I can assure you that I am a college educated adult (47 years old) and I have been shooting and collecting Ruger firearms since my early 20's, but when a new member post a topic and is given a reply such as "Most people that use incorrect nomenclature do so because they want to. Because of that some folks just get frustrated and their civility slips." all that does is drive new members away from this site. Other members on here have been quite helpful and understanding if a newbie uses incorrect terminology, but "some people" seem to thrive on putting others in their place, so I hear ya loud and clear and will do my best not to offend anyone by using incorrect terminology when referring to a Vaquero. :shock: :? :roll:
Hondo44
Hawkeye
CraigC said:
Thank you CraigC,
The more I handle and shoot it the more I like it. It's a great little kit gun. I shoot WRFs in it more than mags. They are less costly now that they are a regular production item yet it still chambers the Mag snake loads.
It won't be too long however that us old farts who know about three screw models will be gone and the term "old model Vaquero" will be just fine. Also since I had a couple of pairs (two original Bisley Vaqueros, and two "make that four" new Bisley Vaquero's) of each I can tell you for a fact (quite a few folks disagree with this, but I know it to be true since I've had both in my hand at the very same time and all were new, unfired, and in the box) that the grip frames on the original Bisleys and the grip frames on the new Bisleys are exactly the same. Sure, the cylinder frame and cylinder is quite a bit different and the original model was and is much beefier, but the grip frames are identical. This has made things work out great when trying to locate grips for one or the other since I was actually looking for the very same grip. I just wish I new the slight differences between the plow handled grip frame between original and new model Vaqueros?
I've found that the very best way to make a birdshead grip Vaquero or any other single action revolver is to modify the existing grip frame by welding it up (the web area just before the edge where it makes contact with the grip panels) and scribing and cutting a new profile. Grind and polish until done and then try to fit some grips to the new grip frame. Usually all one has to do is to use the original grips that came off the gun the modification was made on since it is larger in all areas than the birdshead version and the grip locating pin is exactly the same. All that is necessary is to trim the oversized grip down to the new profile. My problem is that the Hogue panels that Ruger now comes with are still made for the time when Ruger thought to use that darn hammer strut safety block so there are cutouts inletted into the inside of each panel to accomodate that safety. Doesn't matter that Ruger discontinued that safety a long time ago and has absolutely no plans on ever trying that idea ever again. (it seems their largest market, "Cowboy Shooters" didn't like that safety and spent the very first amount of modification work on removing that safety). So to keep the Cowboy Shooters happy, the safety was removed and promised to never return. Hogue didn't care and are still making grips as if Ruger was still putting in those safeties. Well, that undercut in the inside of the panels is right on the edge of the new profile of the birdshead grip frame and it leaves a nice little hole in the finished grip. Not good. So I'm buying a pair of "New model super blackhawk grips" and I'm just hoping I can get those grips to fit. You see they are Ajax grip panels and Ajax makes their grip panels out of solid material with no undercuts at all. I may have to reposition the alignment pin a bit, but that's not a problem at all. I'm just hoping that where the grip meets the frames (both cylinder and grip), that that corner comes out OK, then the rest will be a cake walk. Smithy.
I've found that the very best way to make a birdshead grip Vaquero or any other single action revolver is to modify the existing grip frame by welding it up (the web area just before the edge where it makes contact with the grip panels) and scribing and cutting a new profile. Grind and polish until done and then try to fit some grips to the new grip frame. Usually all one has to do is to use the original grips that came off the gun the modification was made on since it is larger in all areas than the birdshead version and the grip locating pin is exactly the same. All that is necessary is to trim the oversized grip down to the new profile. My problem is that the Hogue panels that Ruger now comes with are still made for the time when Ruger thought to use that darn hammer strut safety block so there are cutouts inletted into the inside of each panel to accomodate that safety. Doesn't matter that Ruger discontinued that safety a long time ago and has absolutely no plans on ever trying that idea ever again. (it seems their largest market, "Cowboy Shooters" didn't like that safety and spent the very first amount of modification work on removing that safety). So to keep the Cowboy Shooters happy, the safety was removed and promised to never return. Hogue didn't care and are still making grips as if Ruger was still putting in those safeties. Well, that undercut in the inside of the panels is right on the edge of the new profile of the birdshead grip frame and it leaves a nice little hole in the finished grip. Not good. So I'm buying a pair of "New model super blackhawk grips" and I'm just hoping I can get those grips to fit. You see they are Ajax grip panels and Ajax makes their grip panels out of solid material with no undercuts at all. I may have to reposition the alignment pin a bit, but that's not a problem at all. I'm just hoping that where the grip meets the frames (both cylinder and grip), that that corner comes out OK, then the rest will be a cake walk. Smithy.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
5kwkdw3 said:
Smithy,
Here's what you wanted to know:
The XR3 size below is the New Vaquero. The XR3-RED sixe is the original Vaquero.
You will have to reposition the locating dowel hole.
GRIP FRAMES Hamm's site:
http://www.gunblast.com/Hamm_Ruger-SA-GripFrames.htm
I always refer to the Gunblast articles on the Vaqueros, when comparing the New Vaquero to the original Vaquero. Saves a lot of typing 
.
The New Vaquero - Gunblast
The New Vaquero Revisted - Gunblast
I think I have only seen one Old Model Vaquero style revolver ever BTW. Someone had made a fixed sighted revolver out of an 3 screw if I remember correctly.
.The New Vaquero - Gunblast
The New Vaquero Revisted - Gunblast
I think I have only seen one Old Model Vaquero style revolver ever BTW. Someone had made a fixed sighted revolver out of an 3 screw if I remember correctly.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
If it was a 357 3 screw, you saw an Old Model New Vaquero! :shock: :lol:
Thanks Hondo44, that told me a lot! I'll be in business if I get ahold of an XR3-Red grip as all I'll have to do is to shorten the forward portion of the grip a very small amount and I'll be equal with the current offerings of Ruger. (that and the location of the grip locating pin). Now if I went and ordered a Super Blackhawk grip, then I might run into some trouble. Again I can shorten the height and forward length of the grip profile, but on that one it looks as if I do this modification I won't have enough grip to come down to the bottom of the grip frame? Ie. right where the middle finger goes. Well I haven't done anything as of yet so after checking out what I have to work with, I may end up mixing up some epoxy and mix in some powdered ivory grip material to color the epoxy so I can put a drop or two in the offending areas to build up that area that would have produced the holes prior to filing and sanding the grip to the new profile? Just a thought. Smithy.
