GP-100 cracked forcing cone

The CS issues aside, the forcing cone on your friend's revolver looks really beat up and flame cut/eroded. That level of erosion is much worse than what should be expected from 1700 rounds of factory ammunition.

I would be really curious what powder S&B is using as that magnitude of erosion often associated with a high nitroglycerine content powder like LilGun. I have Rugers that have had thousands of rounds through them of heavy loads using H-110 and 2400 and the forcing cones don't show anywhere close to the erosion on your friend's gun has.

I wish your friend luck in getting his gun fixed up. Ruger is great about their CS here in the states and I hope that carries over to your side of the pond. One thing is for certain, I would be looking for a different ammo vendor. You should be able to shoot a Ruger for your entire life and not end up with a forcing cone that looks like that.

S&B had a reputation (here in the USA) a few years back, of occasional double-charges and extra-hot loadings. It was not uncommon to hear of bad lots in various calibers.

that aside, use the contact info on the Ruger website and reference this thread, asking the Ruger CS contact to review US-customer inputs. Unfortunately, I understand your distributor's reluctance due to US ITAR regulations on gun parts and bits. But I'd also have a heart-to-heart with your local contact. Guns are machines, and machines bugger and break. Use or abuse makes little difference, however I join the crowd that reserves judgement until the round count/quality effect is verified.

BTW, excellent pictures tell excellent detail! thanks.

22/45 Fan said:

Firearms are a special case and international shipping is anything but straight-forward.

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Believe me, I am aware of this. Local restrictions in Europe are even harsher. We can not send our guns with any shipper. For any services we have to drive our guns to often very remote places.

contender said:

ADP3 has an excellent point. If you can, try & contact Ruger directly. Tell them you are in Poland. AND tell them that your dealer/distributor is reluctant in helping in such matters. They have the ability to directly contact the dealer/distributors themselves and get it resolved.

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This is what I did. I contacted Ruger and asked to affect the local dealer in order to solve the problem. Still waiting for any news. In any case, no matter if the problem happens in USA or in Europe, Rugers acceptance and good will to solve the issue is required. In our situation it is a little more complicated as they need to gently push their dealer to act according to good standards.

contender said:

They stand behind their products, no matter where they are sold.

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...and this is what I hope for

contender said:

So, if your call to them doesn't work, go the "Tell the CEO" route on the company webpage.

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This is what I leave to myself as an ultimate weapon :twisted:

mohavesam said:

Unfortunately, I understand your distributor's reluctance due to US ITAR regulations on gun parts and bits. But I'd also have a heart-to-heart with your local contact.

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Well, I understand problems with shipping gun parts, but I do not understand this reluctance of local dealer in PL. If they acknowlede the problem and promise to solve it, they should do it. If they don't, they should tell my coleague to go... play somewhere else. They chose the worst way - they agreed to help and then lost interest with his issue.

If any news come up I will post them to this thread. Thanks again for support and advice.

Classic European customer service, nothing Ruger can do but fire the local distributor and try to find a better one. With all the various local country rules required to be navigated, between USA/ITAR and Polish laws/rules, the task of local distributor isn't easy. It's doubtful there's better local Polish distributors, it's been my considerable experience the new sales/distributor is usually worse than the one that was fired.

Mine looks the same without the crack, gun is less than 2 years old shot a little over 1000 magnum loads with it. Just called a Ruger repair center and it seem if you reload your warranty is void even if you never went over max loads on the powder manufacture site, so if you happen to have the same problem, don't forget to say you only shoot factory made ammo. It doesn't pay to be honest.

I am in Europe, too. With a couple of decades experience with half a dozen warranty repairable American guns I now know there is no way to get them to warranty repairs. The only way is to have them fixed by a local gunsmith.

Thanks for this idiotism goes to all the communists and fascists of the world, or liberals as they are called in the U.S.

kobs57 said:

Mine looks the same without the crack, gun is less than 2 years old shot a little over 1000 magnum loads with it. Just called a Ruger repair center and it seem if you reload your warranty is void even if you never went over max loads on the powder manufacture site, so if you happen to have the same problem, don't forget to say you only shoot factory made ammo. It doesn't pay to be honest.

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You're right, kbobs -

That's some serious throat erosion for only 1000 magnum rounds. If you don't mind my asking, what was the powder type, load and bullet weight were you typically loading and shooting through your revolver? You mentioned that you did not load over max recommended.

Thanks,

Bayou

Since I bought the gun I shot a box of Winchester 110 gr., 500 38 special white box win. also and the rest were reloads made with a thick plated bullet called Campro (site says to use jacketed data with them) 158Gr. and 8.4Gr. of Hodgdon longshot following Hodgdon recipe except for the bullet. I weigh each powder load on a mechanical scale so there's no mistake. Bought a thousand of those 158 gr. and I.m just starting on a box of Zero bullets flat point 158 Gr. so I could've shot 50 of those.

Here's a closer shot of it. It looks like some residue but what could look like metal if it is


Accuracy is not bad either with those bullets this is one of the target at 50 feet (orange part is 4 inches)

PWK82 said:

A friend of mine has a problem with his Ruger. We both own GP100's chambered in 357 magnum. Mine works like a clockwork, but problem occured in his gun after shooting about 1700 rounds of regular, factory ammo (158gr) - forcing cone cracked. Revolver was kept very clean and maintained after every shooting. Moreover it was used for target shooting, not for dynamic or speed shooting.

What are your experiences with such cases? After studying forums we found that it happens sometimes and Ruger owners can count on assistance of manufacturer. Please advice.

I didn't expect it to happen in Ruger revolver. Sturdines was one of the criteria when it came to choose between manuacturers.

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*****

PWK82.... your excellent photos are a help. The term "forcing cone erosion" refers most often to BARREL FACE EROSION. Whichever we call it, your GP-100 exhibits advanced erosion. A good machinist can cut the BARREL SHOULDER a thickness of 2 or more threads----enough, when the barrel face is trimmed, to remove the crack from the BARREL STUB, or SHANK. This will also reduce the depth of the forcing cone. Your forcing cone is unnecessarily deep. Aside from degrading accuracy, an excessive forcing cone thins the wall at the barrel face. High pressure & heat stress the thin wall.

In addition, chamber-to-bore alignment may be offset at 4 o'clock, concentrating stress where the wall cracked.

It appears a particularly hot powder or high pressure loading was used in your GP-100. Unless the stainless barrel is unusually soft. The deep rivulets of erosion are evidence of repeated exposure to high combustion temperature and pressure. Many thousands of light loads may start a pattern of light, smooth erosion, but nothing that dramatic.

If you trim the barrel shoulder, TIME the THREADS. With proper THREAD TIMING the barrel should hand-tighten to about 10 or 12-degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center.) Lubricate the threads before tightening. Do not "torque" the barrel to an arbitrary "foot pounds" or "foot kilos." Thread timing is critical to proper barrel fitting.

The slot in the BARREL SHROUD which protects the EJECTOR ROD may have to be lengthened to accommodate the ejector rod. Do not trim the ejector rod.
David Bradshaw

I wonder if Ruger helped the friend?

[/quote]
If you trim the barrel shoulder, TIME the THREADS. With proper THREAD TIMING the barrel should hand-tighten to about 10 or 12-degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center.) Lubricate the threads before tightening. Do not "torque" the barrel to an arbitrary "foot pounds" or "foot kilos." Thread timing is critical to proper barrel fitting.

The slot in the BARREL SHROUD which protects the EJECTOR ROD may have to be lengthened to accommodate the ejector rod. Do not trim the ejector rod.
David Bradshaw[/quote]

Question...
Does this final 10-12 degree tightening vary much by caliber and does a SS frame barrel
vary from a steel one? Steel barrel into aluminium frame different?
Just trying to learn something. Anybody just use shims, or would that be a hack job?
Thanks I appreciate your detailed posts.
Dave

Brownells sells a tool to set back the barrel shoulder without power tools.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...nt-tools/barrel-set-back-fixture-prod854.aspx

PWK82 said:

A friend of mine has a problem with his Ruger. We both own GP100's chambered in 357 magnum. Mine works like a clockwork, but problem occured in his gun after shooting about 1700 rounds of regular, factory ammo (158gr) - forcing cone cracked. Revolver was kept very clean and maintained after every shooting. Moreover it was used for target shooting, not for dynamic or speed shooting.

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kobs57 said:

Mine looks the same without the crack, gun is less than 2 years old shot a little over 1000 magnum loads with it.

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Considering that there is no top strap cutting on both revolvers, looks to me that we have here both; double base powders, and inferior steel and/or heath treatment of the barrel.

I've heard nothing but very high opinion about durability of Security Six. Anybody had same barrel erosion problem on them?

According to some shooting ranges, where they used Security Six as a rental guns, some of them did hundreds of thousand rounds, and still going strong. I am assuming that majority of the rounds were 38 Special, but again, that is a lot of ammo.

Question...
Does this final 10-12 degree tightening vary much by caliber and does a SS frame barrel
vary from a steel one? Steel barrel into aluminium frame different?
Just trying to learn something. Anybody just use shims, or would that be a hack job?
Thanks I appreciate your detailed posts. ----Dave P.
*****

Dave P..... in tightening a barrel to the frame, the object is for the barrel to not loosen, yet not be so tight it swell a ring in the bore at the barrel/frame juncture. This is properly handled by THREAD TIMING----timing the threads of frame and barrel so that the barrel hand-tightens shortly before it reaches Top Dead Center. Until about 1980 Smith & Wesson used a cross pin to hold the barrel from rotating loose. The pin was eliminated under the Bangor-Punta ownership, probably to save money.

Consider Colt, S&W, and other revolvers built in the 19th century with soft steel, which would be considered crude today. To over tighten could warp the frame. Thread timing was understood then and it needs to be understood today.

* To hand tighten to 10-12 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) works with chrome-moly and stainless. Don't know about aluminum.
* Fine threads on the barrel shank provide strength and allow a little more leeway in timing without producing a compression ring in the bore.
* For a given diameter barrel shank, fine threads have a greater root diameter, which translates into greater wall thickness. Greater wall thickness resists a formation of a compression ring.
* Caliber shouldn't make a difference. For a given shank diameter, a smaller bore has more wall thickness to resist distortion from wrongful tightening.
David Bradshaw

I wonder if the Blue GP 100's have the same issues ?

ODS

David B.

Thanks for taking time to answer questions. Maybe just one more..
On modern SS guns if a "factory" installed barrel is removed is there
usually too much thread distortion to simply reinstall it. Will it clock up
when reinstalling?
My experience with stainless it that it galls if you look at it sideways.
Should one just plan on chucking it in the lathe and take facing cuts to get
one more turn and deal with the BC gap as needed.
I can see less final torque and a retaining pin might be a better way. production
cost being the problem.
Dave

"On modern SS guns if a "factory" installed barrel is removed is there
usually too much thread distortion to simply reinstall it. Will it clock up
when reinstalling?

Should one just plan on chucking it in the lathe and take facing cuts to get
one more turn and deal with the BC gap as needed...
... less final torque and a retaining pin..."
*****

Pulling and reinstalling barrels on stainless Ruger single actions is done routinely without galling. Even when the barrel is over-tightened to the point of raising a compression ring in the bore. It is good to lube threads before installation. Aside from creating an aesthetic disaster, a spacer ring between barrel shoulder and frame is no way to go about THREAD TIMING.

Improper thread timing should be corrected by turning the barrel shoulder so that barrel hand-tightens to 10 or 12-degrees Before Top Dead Center. As you face the muzzle, if the
front sight hand tightens at:
* 9 o'clock, the front sight is 90-degrees BTDC.
* 10 o'clock, front sight is 60-degrees BTDC.
* 11 o'clock, front sight is 30-degrees BTDC.

Note: If the barrel hand tightens to 30-degrees BTDC, a COMPRESSION RING will "thread choke" the bore at least .001-inch and ruin accuracy.

Note: fine threads, as used by Smith & Wesson simplify barrel fitting by allowing more forgiveness in thread timing. Coarse threads make for critical thread timing.

The barrel pin on older S&W revolvers was found to be redundant. Beautiful as it is on the older guns, it is unnecessary. A barrel pin would look out of place on a Ruger.
David Bradshaw

Thanks for the answers.
I understood the thread timing concept, recently made some triple thread 75mm fittings
that had to tighten within a couple degree at a given torque. only made one junk one.
That job lead to my curiosity about the barrel fitting.
Sounds like a careful person would go just shy of the calculated cut and do a test fit,
skim it again if needed.
Thanks again.
Dave

Dave P. said:

Thanks for the answers.
I understood the thread timing concept...
Sounds like a careful person would go just shy of the calculated cut and do a test fit,
skim it again if needed.
Thanks again.
Dave

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*****

Dave.... correct. THREAD TIMING is a must, and to calculate how much to set back the barrel starts with knowing TPI (Threads Per Inch).
David Bradshaw