Trimming Single Six mainspring coils. how many?

A Single Six stainless I am modifying for myself has the original mainspring. I need to lighten the hammer pull, but don't want to buy a spring kit. I have several original springs left from installing Wolffe kits, so a mistake would be no economic loss. I want to trim the spring, but am unsure as to how many coils to start with. As a toolmaker, I'm familiar with the need for keeping things cool to preserve temper.Experienced advise appreciated. Thanks. Don

Mainspring? Why mess with the mainspring? Reduce the trigger's "creep" by reducing the "height" of the hammer's full cock notch. Polish all points of friction in the lockwork. I'll also carefully "tweek" both legs of the trigger spring. I always use the Factory "mainspring" and on "target toys" I'll bend the "legs on the trigger spring. On a hunting revolver or a "self protection" revolver I'll leave most springs alone. In my humble opinion the way to "fix" a Ruger S.A. is to reduce the points of friction then "fine tune" the relationship between the hammer's portion of the sear and also the trigger's portion of the sear.

Pay attention to detail and retain the "strong" springs if you ever elect to use the gun for "self protection".

JMHO,

flatgate

So I guess you aren't going to tell me then how many coils to trim? I don't mess with sears on ANY of my guns since a near tragedy as a result of me, a file and a $39 parts bin Mauser 93 at age 13. I do respect those of you with the tools, experience and hangers to mess with sears, but I don't. And I already did the "poor man's trigger job" and polished internals except sears. And as I explained, I have several factory take outs in case I want to return to factory strength. Hey. I'm working to learn here. Thanks.Don

Tallbald said:

So I guess you aren't going to tell me then how many coils to trim?

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No, because I've NEVER trimmed a Ruger mainspring. I have around 20 "shooters" and ALL have "full length" mainsprings ( a few have Old Army mainsprings which are a few pounds heavier than Ruger's "standard"
Large Frame versions). The Old Army mainsprings were also utilized in the .357 Maximum revolvers.

IMHO, the key to getting a Ruger to function "properly" is to reduce friction in the lockwork and reduce the "creep" in the hammer. Nuttin' to it.......

flatgate

I never cut springs either. If I need to reduce the force of a spring, I reduce the diameter of the wire the spring is made of.

Slide the spring over a length of welding rod or similar and lightly put the spring against a belt sander. Allow the spring to freely rotate around the welding rod as you sand the wire down in size. After the wire is reduced in diameter you need to polish out any sanding marks as these will allow "stress risers" to form and the spring will crack along them.

With that said, the better way is stoning the hammer notch/seer at the proper angles, keeping both positive. The seer engagement can be reduced to 0.015" which will reduce felt creep.

John Taffin's book Sixguns has a passage in which he describes taking a couple coils off as a way to reduce Ruger mainspring power. He says one, maybe two off will do the trick.

I found it useful for two revolvers. You cut them off with a proper side cutters, and do one coil at a time, then reassemble and test.

I don't desire light triggers, just smooth sensible actions that operate in a sweet spot. In OM Single-Sixes, I found it necessary to take a 3rd coil off just to get them down a tick from "absurdly oversprung." But these were safety converted, and for some reason or another you get the sense that safety conversion mainspring in particular is very strong.

Tallbald... I have to line up with Flatgate and advocate AGAINST trimming the mainspring.

Two items:
1) Too light a mainspring is a cause for MISFIRES and INACCURACY. Fact, not opinion.

2) The .22 rimfire requires a surprisingly stout blow to the primer.

In all the trigger jobs I do, the mainspring is not cut. I want reliability and accuracy. In fact, reducing mainspring pressure may accentuate any creep you now feel.

I did a bit of live ammo fast draw when I was young, still take a stroke now and then. NEVER lightened the mainspring on a Ruger. (I know, some fast draw wizzes lighten the mainspring, but I rather doubt they carry those guns in the woods.)

There is one other reason to not lighten the single action mainspring: Unbeknownst to you, your clothing may cock your holstered revolver! I watched it happen as a man sat down to play cards. An old model Blackhawk .41 magnum, holstered on his right hip. A fold in his shirt cocked his revolver as he sat. I carefully brought the hazard to the man's attention, then interposed my thumb between the hammer and recoil shield. Eased the revolver up; rotated cylinder to once again rest the hammer on an empty chamber. A light mainspring.

As for the potential danger of a light trigger: MUZZLE CONTROL is the responsibility of the person holding the gun. There is no other way. Nobody gets shot by safe gun handling.
David Bradshaw

I too fall into the group of not trimming coils off a mainspring. If you are not comfortable working over the action,, get a good smith to do it. I have spent a little time with the worlds best revolver shooter, (Jerry M) and many would be surprised to learn he has heavier than factory mainsprings in his guns.
I have many old & new Rugers where proper attention was given to the mating surfaces in the action. The result is a much smoother & lighter feeling action. No mainspring adjustments needed.

Revolver mainsprings----a broad subject.
With the coils, promoted from the start of his revolver building, Bill Ruger set another brick in his post-war firearms revolution. Ruger quality coil springs maintain a consistent pressure. Leaf springs do not have this constancy, and tend vary in tension between individual pieces, and vary tremendously in quality and lifespan between manufacturers.

Among the best leaf spring ever put in a firearm----the old-school drop forged mainsprings of Smith & Wesson revolvers. The strain screw is a great part in the S&W design, both as a great convenience for assembly/disassembly, and as a means of adjusting hammer fall.

There are modern leaf springs which in service life don't come close to the S&W forged mainspring. All my Smiths are old school and have the old-style parts. Except for the J-frames, which have coil mains.

To lighten the the S&W trigger, one or 1-1/2 coils may be cut from the trigger rebound spring. Or, preferably, replaced with the factory S&W "light rebound spring." Shortening a coil spring may shorten its stroke, weakening pressure at extension. (A spring close to its "at rest" position when installed may be too weak at extension to reset the trigger, or to fire a primer.)

Yes, one may nip a coil or two off the Ruger mainspring. For reasons mentioned earlier, I never do it.
David Bradshaw

Here are a few pointers that aspiring tinkerers might find useful. I'll keep it simple for the benefit of the OP.
a). the springs in a gun are not chosen individually, but as a working group. Modifying one spring will affect the operation of the entire gun.
b). spring length is a primary requirement and should never change.
c). spring weight can be reduced slightly by reducing the diameter of the wire, not the length of the spring.
d). consider first whether you know more than the designers of the gun.

-cu

Well well. Lots of answers to choose from. Some digressed from my original question, misreading it to begin with. I am interested in reducing hammer pull. Not trigger. I have psoriatic arthritis in my hands as well as my spine, hips, knees and elbows.... It causes physical pain to pull the HAMMER back. Not the trigger. Stop shooting a single action? No way. Use the heel of my hand to cock the hammer? I think not. Hey!! I'll see if I can adapt to my medical problem by reducing the strength of the mainspring, and ask the group where to start trimming. That way if I go too far, I can use a replacement takeout spring and be back to original, no harm no foul. Folks I posted a simple request for information. I appreciate the respectful responses received. Didn't think I was inviting belittling by some on a public forum. No I don't claim to know more than designers of the gun. No, I don't touch my sears. Nor though do I pontificate if a less knowledgeable person asks me a question ( I learned that kindness early in my long career as a Registered Nurse, caring for often very uneducated people). If I think my response is fraught with the risk of sounding condescending, I'll PM the questioner or just not offer my opinion. Overall, I'd say this has been a minor adventure. One I do not care to repeat.Don

Tallbald... Went back to your original post: stainless Single-Six; Ruger springs left over from Wolff installations. So, the question is, which is the lightest spring, have you tried it, does it work? If so, that is your answer.

If the lightest mainspring on hand is too heavy, cut one coil and try again, and so forth.

In performing trigger jobs on competition Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks, I generally prefer to install blue steel trigger and hammer springs. I like the feel, and trust them to hold up for years without fatigue. To ignite small rifle primers, the .357 Maximum came with the heavier cap & ball mainspring, which was blued. I didn't mess with it.

With the tenderness of your joints, I would not think twice about cocking the revolver with the heal of my off hand. And you may find some .22's ignite more easily than others. Similar to the Federal #100 small pistol primer, popular with PPC shooters for light-indent ignition.

Best of luck,
David Bradshaw

David, I sincerely offer you thanks. That's what I was hoping to learn. Don

Don... there is another facet to cocking a revolver for single action fire: conformation of the hammer and hammer spur. A tall or long hammer spur increases leverage. Sharp serrations or checkering on the spur enhance purchase.

I happen to love Peacemaker ergonomics. Great handling and pointing characteristics. It has not the grip for dissipating recoil sharper than the standard .45 Colt load. For fast draw pointability, the Blackhawk is superior to the Super Blackhawk. The Super Blackhawk grip was intended to spread recoil, slow rotation, and increase the distance between your middle knuckle and the trigger guard.

You might try a Bisley grip frame on your Single-Six----last one I bought from Ruger parts, with appropriate hammer and trigger and socket-head screws, ran over $100. A Bisley grip on the Single-Six puts more weight in the hand, lightening one's sense of where the muzzle is, an undesirable feature. The aluminum grip frame makes for nice balance of the chrome-moly Single-Six. Your stainless S-S has a stainless grip frame; beautiful, but heavier.

The Colt peacemaker grip frame has thinner straps. With short barrel, the peacemaker truly was a pocket cannon.

Two things to be aware of with the Ruger Bisley: the low hammer spur, in conjunction with the high backstrap, places the spur of a cocked hammer closer to the backstrap. One must be aware of this when shooting with a gloved hand. The web portion of the glove can capture the spur and prevent or delay hammer fall. Something to consider at all times when afield.

Spur serrations of the Ruger Bisley hammer take less aggressive bite of your thumb.

If taking purchase of your Peacemaker-style hammer is at all iffy, sharpen the serrations or crosshatch them with a fine checking file.

Also, consider shooting with the softest, close-fitting deerskin gloves. Rub the gloves with leather treatmen, such as Pecard's, mink oil, snowproof, or pure neatsfoot oil. So treated, the gloves last and provide better tactile control.
David Bradshaw

Also the new, New models like the Vaqueros have that taller, longer hammer spur, the cowboy action shooters wanted this, and does make it easier to cock the hammer back, lots and lots of info and whys'/wherefores and differences from cutting coils on a single action versus a double action...we do NOT cut coils in a single action and can at times , on the D/A's....so as noted above, try and see what works for YOU , as said, go to the point of "misfire" and then go back??? (yep need a spare handy....) good luck

Lightening the hammer spring increases the lock time for the revolver (the time between when the sear releases the hammer and the hammer actually hits the firing pin and fires the cartridge). I don't know about other shooters, but lock time is important to me. Since I can't hold a revolver perfectly still off-hand, lock time determines how far off the target the gun may wonder before the cartridge fires. If it is too slow I notice that my shooting accuracy decreases. When I switch to a gun with a fast lock time, my practical accuracy increase substantially.

I don't understand the current trend to lighten hammer springs. It may make it easier to cock the hammer, and maybe a bit smoother too, but unless you're shooting off a rock solid bench, the longer lock time also decreases accuracy.........

Tallbald said:

A Single Six stainless I am modifying for myself has the original mainspring. I need to lighten the hammer pull, but don't want to buy a spring kit. I have several original springs left from installing Wolffe kits, so a mistake would be no economic loss. I want to trim the spring, but am unsure as to how many coils to start with. As a toolmaker, I'm familiar with the need for keeping things cool to preserve temper.Experienced advise appreciated. Thanks. Don

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I have always nipped my single six springs because they are the same as used in the large frames but without the leverage advantage of the taller hammer. I cut them with parrell dikes right in the gun 1/2 coil at a time until it's acceptable.
This is usually down to 22-23 coils. Lo and behold that's what the New Vaqueros come with. I've never had misfires.

Ruger springs are either .046" diameter and the OMs had .060" and were way to stiff for the 22s.

could someone help me out with my p85. i have some questions about the differene between the p85 and p89 thanks

therugerp85guyy said:

could someone help me out with my p85. i have some questions about the differene between the p85 and p89 thanks

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I don't think the people who know about the P guns will see your post on a thread about Trimming Single Six mainspring coils in the gunsmithing section. It's better to start a new thread and for your questions, in the semi auto section. Just FYI, hope that helps.

I have worked on several firearms from leading Custom Gunsmiths that became unreliable. They had butter smoothe triggers but springs get "lazy" with age and use. Main springs in particular because of intense action of storing and releasing the energy to power the hammer. Usually triggers will lighten naturally because of the "set" they take in use, that's the major reason for factory springs are heavy. The factory knows it will relax naturally but they want the gun to remain reliable, factory returns cost big bucks to a business.