Would love to see a LCP with as many stainless steel parts as possible and then add fit and finish like no other. I myself would be willing to pay more for one , Would love to see Ruger make the best pocket 380 , and stop worry about meeting a certain price niche , I don't mind paying for quality. What ever happened to building the best ? Keeping cost low isn't always the market to shoot for. Look what Freedom Arms did with the single action revolver , what say you ?
WHY NO STAINLESS LCP ?
- Thread starter JES14352
- Start date
Geoff Timm
Single-Sixer
If you have that kind of money, go get it done. Fact the LCP is a relatively cheap and reliable pistol not meant for flourish and display.
Geoff
Who has one unseen in the best places.
Geoff
Who has one unseen in the best places.
Jim Puke
Hunter
JES14352 said:
The LCP is TOP DOG in the .380 market just as it is...hard to improve on that.
JES14352 said:
If Ruger raised their prices to the S&W or Springfield or Glock price ranges for equivalent or competing models ... Their sales would plummet.
Ruger makes a good gun, but the facts are that if they didn't have a $75-100 price advantage over the main brands, they'd lose sales by the thousands. Ruger has always been a price point gun, and with their latest plastic offerings .... They are even more so.
Seriously .... For the same money .... Would you buy a Ruger SR9 or a Glock 19 .... Or SW M&P 9 or Springfield XD9 ? I know there are Ruger fanatics that will buy anything that says Ruger on it without even thinking, but the vast majority would buy the competing guns at the same price, given the choice.
Not bashing Ruger .... Just the way it is. It's always been like that. Rugers sell by price ... Always have.
REV
So basically what your saying is that Ruger is the Walmart of the gun industry ? Why not try to improve your product . There are different price markets out there. Why just limit your self to just the cheap ones ?
Geoff Timm
Single-Sixer
JES14352 said:
Return on Investment. The effort must be worth more than the return and there is little market if any for premium pocket pistols.
Geoff
Who notes Browning no longer offers a Renaissance set. http://www.sportingcollectibles.com/Bro/bro20018.jpg
JES14352 said:
Pretty much in certain areas (nothing wrong with that) .... with their autos and plastics. About on par with Taurus anymore if you're being honest and realistic. Taurus makes a pretty damn good gun these days. Rugers are priced where they need to be to sell ... And sell they do ... In big numbers. Ruger is a company dedicated to their shareholders, as any corporation should be .... Consequently .... They do what works ... Sell lots of cheap guns at lower prices than the premium manufacturers do.
People always wonder why very few LEOs or militaries use Rugers. There's a reason for it. If they were as good, AND being lower priced .... It would seem that they would get every contract .... Yet virtually no LEOs ever use them. Why ?
Ever wonder why almost all the people defending Ruger against higher priced brands always start their defense with the words .... 'For the money' ....
I've always looked at Ruger realistically ... They excel in some areas like the rim fire autos and all the revolvers, and rifles .... Not so much in CF autos in plastic. But they're cheap, so they sell well. For civilian range and CCW use ... They're perfectly adequate.
Put them up against CZ's, Sigs, HK's, and there's no comparison. It's closer between the Smiths and Springields, though, which is where Ruger has the upper hand in the 'value' area because of price. Which is why I always say ... If you're gonna buy a Ruger and dump a few hundred bucks in mods into it ... You could have bought a better gun right out of the box with a different brand.
I'm not bashing Ruger, I'm being realistic .... their CF SA's and plastics are what they are .... Inexpensive guns that are more than 'good enough' ... For most casual range use and civilian CCW.
REV
I have to agree. They are built to be price competitive. If you look at an LCP side by side with a Kel-Tec, the Ruger sure looks like it is worth the extra $40 or so. Put that same LCP with a SS slide next to a Sig, Colt, S&W,Kahr, etc, and the choice is a lot less clear. Ruger's business model seems to be working pretty well for them as it is.
96/44 said:
I can't go along with that at all. I see virtually no difference between the two, and I own a P3AT, except for the slide being held open after the last shot. I really like it .... For what it is .....
Otherwise ... They're identical IMO.
REV
Jim Puke
Hunter
revhigh said:
I can't go along with this...Taurus guns are not in the same league as Ruger.
Jim Puke
Hunter
revhigh said:
I think the market makes my case very well. I don't remember Taurus ever having a million gun backlog of orders.
Put a Ruger for sale and a Taurus for sale and see which generates more interest and moves quicker.
And, then there is my local gunshop that put Taurus out of the store this year due to customer returns and customer service problems with the company.
I will not interject the long descriptive details of my personal experience with a couple that I bought for Christmas gifts 2 years ago and they still have problems...after using the vaunted lifetime warranty service with the shipping being on my dime every time.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to disagree with you...it is nice that way. You can hold them in high regard if you like, but for me, not so much...I paid for the right to have my opinion of them.
Yet you bought two Tauri ... Why ? Price I'm sure. Same reason Ruger sells instead of S&W or Springfield in certain instances.
Many People here have had your exact same Taurus experience with Ruger products, which means nothing in terms of overall quality of the product. Just an isolated unfortunate incident.
I didn't say anything about sales volume ... I merely mentioned roughly equivalent quality.
What you've mentioned as to Ruger being appreciably better is biased conjecture and opinion .... Not measurable reasons and specifics. But that's OK.
REV
Many People here have had your exact same Taurus experience with Ruger products, which means nothing in terms of overall quality of the product. Just an isolated unfortunate incident.
I didn't say anything about sales volume ... I merely mentioned roughly equivalent quality.
What you've mentioned as to Ruger being appreciably better is biased conjecture and opinion .... Not measurable reasons and specifics. But that's OK.
REV
Jim Puke
Hunter
revhigh said:
I failed to see your "measurable reasons and specifics" to support you position, also.
And, the gun buying public agrees with me... :mrgreen:
Jim Luke said:
Sig, HK, and CZ sell nowhere near as many guns as Ruger either .... Does that mean Rugers are better ?
Sales volume does not equate to the best product ... In fact ... It rarely does. Usually the exact inverse is the case .....
REV
Jim Puke
Hunter
revhigh said:
I was wrong...backlog is nearly 2 million.
Jim Luke said:
Around these parts it's the one that's priced cheaper. Now, if a Taurus and Ruger (similar gun) are priced the same, the Ruger will likely sell first.
We've only got 4 gun retailers in a 50 mile radius of my little town. None of them are big box stores. All of them carry both Ruger and Taurus but you couldn't tell by looking. You see, there's still virtually NO Rugers on the shelves because they can't get them. But, Taurus has supplied each with darn near a full line of their products. Snubbies in 22LR, 22 Mag, 38 Special, etc. Four inch revolvers the same. Semi-autos including 1911's in 45, 9mm, 40 cal, etc. THIS is part of where Ruger is losing the market here locally; no product to buy and IL will have CCW in a few months. Darn big state to not be able to deliver a J Frame sized wheel gun or LC9.
Some 2 years after the 100th Anniv of the 1911 ..... none of these local stores have received more than 3 or 4 Ruger 1911s for sale. You know what? Taurus and Springfield 1911s move like hot cakes here; because they're in stock.
None of the dealers claim to have a service problem with Taurus, no huge volume of guns being returned defective. What few have gone back, results on repairs were excellent. Another Taurus "line" popular around here are the refurbished guns. Dealers here seem to get a lot of them and they sell well.
I've owned a number of Taurus guns over the years. Never had a problem with one but ...... seems I've always sold them or traded them for something I like better ...... usually a Ruger.
Yup ... Taurus used to be a joke, and they're still trying to overcome that rep.
I have only owned 1 . A PT22 ... A copy of a Beretta compact 22.
Works just fine. Doesn't have the name prestige of Ruger, but Ruger doesn't have the name prestige of Smith, Colt, CZ, or Sig either.
All I'm saying is the current Taurus guns are a lot better than Tauri of the past, and Ruger has had slipping quality in the last 5-10 years, specifically in their CF SA line. It's doubtful anybody who has been following the gun industry for the last 10-20 years or so would disagree with that.
REV
I have only owned 1 . A PT22 ... A copy of a Beretta compact 22.
Works just fine. Doesn't have the name prestige of Ruger, but Ruger doesn't have the name prestige of Smith, Colt, CZ, or Sig either.
All I'm saying is the current Taurus guns are a lot better than Tauri of the past, and Ruger has had slipping quality in the last 5-10 years, specifically in their CF SA line. It's doubtful anybody who has been following the gun industry for the last 10-20 years or so would disagree with that.
REV
There's lost of hysteria here right now because CCW is right around the corner in IL for the first time ever.
Sad for Ruger that when folks walk into a gun store they see a 4" SP, maybe one snubbie SP and a 6" GP. Meanwhile, there's snubbie Taurus 22's and 38's on the shelf in the $300 range brand spanking new.
On the semi-auto side they see a 24/7 or 709 Slim vs. a huge SR9.
Sad for Ruger that when folks walk into a gun store they see a 4" SP, maybe one snubbie SP and a 6" GP. Meanwhile, there's snubbie Taurus 22's and 38's on the shelf in the $300 range brand spanking new.
On the semi-auto side they see a 24/7 or 709 Slim vs. a huge SR9.
groberts
Single-Sixer
I guess I am wierd. To me a pocket gun needs to be light, reliable and inexpensive. SS is overkill. It's a tool, not an object of art.
But then I see the same thing on the Savage forums - everyone wants to buy one and modify it with stocks, barrels, triggers, etc.
But then I see the same thing on the Savage forums - everyone wants to buy one and modify it with stocks, barrels, triggers, etc.
Stainless steel would be just to Help with the rust factor that LCP's are so well known for .... Has nothing to do with Bling.... Maybe they could come up with a better finish inside , out that would hold up better to salty sweat ?rgburrill said:
groberts
Single-Sixer
Gotcha :wink:JES14352 said:
Personally I like the feel, and look, of a stainless steel gun, but I think the LCP would be heavy enough in SS that it would no longer be feasible as a pocket gun. My guess is that most folks who carry the LCP do so in their pocket and weight is very important. If you decide to carry in an IWB holster, then you might want a larger caliber than the 380. Right now I can only carry when out of state (Illinois) and the LCP is what I usually put in my pocket. If I were willing to have a bit more weight I would take my sr40c in an IWB holster and have the larger caliber and higher number of rounds available.
The slide is made of steel already. I don't think going to Stainless will effect the weight significantly. It is for function rather than looks.
gramps
gramps
wixedmords
Blackhawk
I don't see any problem with making it in stainless. Just a matter of time I imagine. Until then, I'd go for an aftermarket coating on the slide.
mohavesam
Hawkeye
I would see no problem with a stainless slide. Or all-stainless internals for that matter. I ve gone so far as to send a 22/45 to Robar to have all metal parts NP3'd for hunting in squalid conditions ("drop it in a creek, find it next week") as a potential.
Is everyone forgetting about "Tell the CEO"?
Is everyone forgetting about "Tell the CEO"?
exavid
Hunter
Tauri are interesting guns. I bought a TCP a couple years ago, it wasn't so much due to price but because I liked the gun. It shot well and was accurate, nice trigger and great size for CCW when I wore shorts. Unfortunately after firing around 500 rounds I let a friend in my club try it out after I finished firing a couple of mags worth. Unfortunate because the first round he fired caused the pistol to self destruct. The slide broke into two halves right about where the ejection port's front end was. He was hit by the rear half of the slide which cracked a tooth and the forward part of the slide shot forward about 20'. After contacting Taurus I was offered any gun of their manufacture to replace the TCP. My friend settled for a fair amount of money to pay for his dental work and for the inconvenience and pain. I decided on a Slim 740 .40S&W mainly because I'd handled and shot one previously. I got the replacement pistol within a couple weeks an took to the range. It was a fine shooting pistol and very thin and light for CCW. Good trigger, good sights and overall a nice gun. I was very satisfied with the pistol until somewhere around 300rds one day at the range it decided to fire doubles and triples. Very interesting hanging onto such a small light .40 when it's in automatic mode. I ended up sending it back to Taurus and requesting they just refund the amount I paid for the original TCP. I will vouch for Taurus customer service, they were very good, and quick to respond. I liked the design and handling of the two guns other than those rather serious problems. I didn't accept a new TCP because even though I knew that the slide destruction was unlikely to happen again I just didn't feel I'd really ever trust another. Pretty much the same with the 740. It's too bad because they were nice guns but too untrustworthy for self defense carry.
I replaced the TCP with an LCP and have fired a lot of rounds with it. Needed to because it took me quite a while to be able to shoot it accurately at a steel plate at 25yds. It's not built for that use but the gun can do it. My LC9 has been a fine pistol as well. I've never had a real problem with a Ruger pistol. I've owned Rugers for well over 50 years and have never had a problem with any of them.
I was skeptical of the poly pistols at first but now really like them for their light weight and corrosion resistance.
Due to my experience with both Taurus and Ruger I prefer Rugers and trust them more. It isn't the price to me but Ruger's reliability and durability.
I replaced the TCP with an LCP and have fired a lot of rounds with it. Needed to because it took me quite a while to be able to shoot it accurately at a steel plate at 25yds. It's not built for that use but the gun can do it. My LC9 has been a fine pistol as well. I've never had a real problem with a Ruger pistol. I've owned Rugers for well over 50 years and have never had a problem with any of them.
I was skeptical of the poly pistols at first but now really like them for their light weight and corrosion resistance.
Due to my experience with both Taurus and Ruger I prefer Rugers and trust them more. It isn't the price to me but Ruger's reliability and durability.
toysoldier
Hunter
I'm no expert in manufacturing processes, and perhaps someone here can support or correct me. I believe that the higher cost of SS guns reflects higher machining costs. Stainless is more difficult to machine, and hold to tolerances. And as you get to minimal dimensions, I believe non-stainless alloys offer greater strength.
As for corrosion, I just took a good look at the LCP I waited a year for, and have been carrying ever since. There's a hint of rust on the back corner of the slide, the only part in contact with skin (and only when I'm carrying IWB, which is very little). Perhaps a factory-applied coating would not raise the cost more than a few dollars. In the increasingly competitive CCW market, we might see something like this as a marketing boost.
As for corrosion, I just took a good look at the LCP I waited a year for, and have been carrying ever since. There's a hint of rust on the back corner of the slide, the only part in contact with skin (and only when I'm carrying IWB, which is very little). Perhaps a factory-applied coating would not raise the cost more than a few dollars. In the increasingly competitive CCW market, we might see something like this as a marketing boost.
