What am I doing wrong?

[tek4260]

Seems like everyone says they are getting 1200-1400 fps from their revolvers with 300gr pills(even from Alaskans). I'm not.

Did some shooting today to try some of my loads. First up way my ragged old Super. 300gr Mihec over 21gr of H-110 with WLP primers @25 yards

Not great, but good enough for government work, and good enough for me to confidently shoot to 100yds.

Next was my 45 that I have been firelapping, fitted a cylinder, springs, and worked on the sights. I fired 20 rounds, checked for leading, and fired a group. 300gr Mihec over 22gr of H110 with CCI-350. I should try some with WLP and see what happens. Also at 25yd.

Waaaay better than before cylinder and dropping back from 24gr of H110

But, then there is this

So now what do I do to get that 1300fps that everyone talks about from their short barrel revolvers? I am already at the point of compression with my powder. And we all know you need 1300fps to kill a deer or stop that 12ft tall grizzly.

Maybe I should just keep thinking BS to my self when someone claims those velocities.

Or maybe I got a slow chrony.

Please help! I don't want to be sitting on the stand opening morning feeling all inferior and such because my loads aren't even breaking 1100

:wink:

 

[Nowata]

Apparently, the deer in your part of this great nation are a lot more armored than mine! :D Joking aside, I push a 260gr. WFNGC at about 1100fps(11gr. Unique) thru my bisley Hunter.44. I have yet to find a bullet...double shoulder shots to at least 50yrds. No need to feel anemic with loads less than 1300!!

 

[M'BOGO]

Not breaking 1100 fps, those slugs will bounce off deer!

 

[Jimbo357mag]

You need a longer barrel, a lighter bullet and a lot more powder. ...And when estimating velocity add a good 150 fps at least. :roll: :roll: :mrgreen:

...Jimbo

 

[Bucks Owin]

tek 4260: "Maybe I should just keep thinking BS to my self when someone claims those velocities"....

I like to read a few of those "fast" chronos myself, mine's not quite as optimistic either.....:wink:

Gotta admit, I didn't like the cyl pin "peen" episode the other day, and it's made me reconsider the sense in beating my BH any harder with 22+ grs 296 just to "go to bonneville" with a heavy bullet... :? Besides, it's not like a 325 @ 1160 fps is somehow "weak" by any stretch, the penetration in my homegrown bullet trap tells that tale pretty clearly! :wink:

I'll likely dote on the 290 gr Mehek (WW alloy, .454") doing 1300 on 296 with no strain as my .45 "go to"...It's an accurate bullet right out of the gate besides, and not fussy to powder, charge weight or velocity it seems! What a fine bullet..

Now for the lead frugal lightweight, flat shootin' 150 yd varmit sizzler! :lol:

 

[pps]

tek 4260: "Maybe I should just keep thinking BS to my self when someone claims those velocities"....

I like to read a few of those "fast" chronos myself, mine's not quite as optimistic either.....:wink:

Gotta admit, I didn't like the cyl pin "peen" episode the other day, and it's made me reconsider the sense in beating my BH any harder with 22+ grs 296 just to "go to bonneville" with a heavy bullet... :? Besides, it's not like a 325 @ 1160 fps is somehow "weak" by any stretch, the penetration in my homegrown bullet trap tells that tale pretty clearly! :wink:

I'll likely dote on the 290 gr Mehek (My alloy, .454") doing 1300 on 296 with no strain as my .45 "go to"...It's an accurate bullet right out of the gate besides, and not fussy to powder, charge weight or velocity it seems! What a fine bullet..

Now for the lead frugal lightweight, flat shootin' 150 yd varmit sizzler! :lol:

For grins and giggles, I found the Barnes 230gr in 45 Colt +P proves adequate for a charging ground squirrel. :D

So does the 22 Hornet with the Varmint Grenade (Shooting in the stupid Condor zone this AM....with the game warden, so no v-maxes this AM)

 

[Olsherm]

I would not be afraid to shoot a deer with 5 1/2 to 6 grs of Titegroup or 7 1/2 grs of Unique. Killed an 8 point buck with the old 44/40 with about the same load. It does not take a "cannon" to kill a deer. But each to his own liking. I don't even like the big rifles anymore. Killed more deer since I switched to the old 38/55 Marlin.

 

[tek4260]

Funny thing is that I am getting 1004fps from a 280gr cast HP with 12gr of HS-6 and shooting it out of 4 3/4 Uberti.

So, the difference between a Ruger only and a Colt safe load is 60fps and 20gr of boolit weight. :)

 

[dougader]

In 45 Colt, I have been loading 300 to 335 grain bullets with 22.0 grains of WW296 and CCI 350 primers.

In the 7.5" SRH, the 300 grain SSK style slug averaged 1196 fps.

The last time I ran some across the Chrony (note the cheap chronograph; it could be accurate enough; maybe not?), it was fired from a 5.5" Bisley, but the load was made up in cut-down FA 454 brass with a 335 grain WLNGC bullet from Cast Performance. 6 shots averaged 1211 fps.

Shorter barrels just doesn't take advantage of all that slow powder. For example, my 454 load (335 WLNGC over 28 grains 296) runs 1428 fps from the 7.5" SRH, but only shows 1174 fps from the much shorter Alaskan.

I'd rather carry the Bisley with a stout 45 Colt load than an Alaskan in 454 that has a lot more recoil and blast and less velocity.

 

[pps]

Funny thing is that I am getting 1004fps from a 280gr cast HP with 12gr of HS-6 and shooting it out of 4 3/4 Uberti.

So, the difference between a Ruger only and a Colt safe load is 60fps and 20gr of boolit weight. :)

That's weird. With a 7 1/2" barrel I'm getting 1120fps from a 325 grain slug pushed by 13 grains of HS-6...for a VERY comfortable/controllable round. Sized to .454"

The same bullet (sized to .452) pushed by 23 grains H-110 gets 1300fps and a tight extreme spread. Accurate to boot. I too, think the shorter barrel is really penalizing you with less velocity than the 7 1/2" barrel.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Funny thing is that I am getting 1004fps from a 280gr cast HP with 12gr of HS-6 and shooting it out of 4 3/4 Uberti.

So, the difference between a Ruger only and a Colt safe load is 60fps and 20gr of boolit weight. :)

Shorter barrels cost some velocity....8)


280 gr .454" HP/13 grs HS6/WW case/WLP primer/Super Moly: 1167 fps

I'll load some with 12 grs and we'll get an idea of 4.75" vs 7.5". I'm thinking I'll get 1075+

With heavier bullets and slower powder the gap widens even more I'd think..

 

[tek4260]

Sounds like a good excuse to break the OM Super and 45 out and see the velocity difference from my 4 5/8" revolvers.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Small point: Every gun and barrel is unique, and same-lot ammo velocity variations can exceed 200 fps from exact same models.

Tested....

 

[cruzerlou]

Hey teck,
My normal deer load for my 7 1/2" SBH is a 240 gr XPT over 23.5 gr's of H-110 and although I haven't cronoed it should be somewhere around 1500FPS according to the Hodgen websight .. Now if I want a real thumper I load a 3000Gr XPT over 18.7 gr's of H-110 and it should be moving at around 1300FPS . Ether one of there loads will make a through and through sholder shot at 100 yards on a White Tail deer and leave a nasty exit hole and they drop in there tracks provided that I've broken both sholders .And I wouldn't hesatate to shoot a Black Bear with ether of these loads The 240gr load I shoot in my 6" M29 and just found out that it works just fine in my 1965 Deerstalker carbine too .The 300 GR load is a Super Black hawk only load [ not that the M-29 can't handle it ,but why accelerate ware on my gun].
Since you've droped back to 22gr's from 24 gr's of H-110in your .45 and the accucary your getting + shooting that heavy hard cast bullet enen if your only getting 1000 FPS ,with that bullet it's a real deer killer .A couple 100 FPS isn't going to make a diffrence at 100 yards .
J.M.H..O, but I think your right there in the deer killing department with the loads you have ,your groups look great and theres more than enough kenitic enegry there to do the job .For a griiz I wouldn't want to tangle with one with anything less than a .454 loaded hot ,but thats just me .Now If I had to shoot a griz I would with ether of my loads out of ether gun ,but only if I had to .Lucky for me i guess we don't have griz's on the east coast ,but with any gun you and I both know shot placement is more inportant then the load your using .Granted the bigger ,heaver hitting load is better ,but I think your O.K.
Lou

 

[bigboredad]

it's really easy to get to 1300 and a chrony. Just don't unfold it all the way :shock:

 

[Bucks Owin]

Hey teck,
Now if I want a real thumper I load a 3000Gr XPT over 18.7 gr's of H-110 and it should be moving at around 1300FPS

Never happen IMHO...

Now if you were to put the 23.5 grs you use under the 240 gr under a CAST 300 gr you may see 1300 fps.. :wink:

 

[pps]

it's really easy to get to 1300 and a chrony. Just don't unfold it all the way :shock:

I think there might be a future as a "global warming scientist" for you, sir!

 

[cruzerlou]

Buck,
Right off Hogdon's websight 18.0 gr's of H-110 under a 300gr XPT is 1266 FPS.Thats what the manfacture shows ,so if you uped the load by .7 grains you should be close.Their data for a 300 gr bullet is 19.0grs max so a load of 23.5 grs is an overload of 4.5 grs. not a good idea I.M.H.O.
Lou

 

[WESHOOT2]

WAY too many assumptions being waved about in this thread.

Please, if one actually wants to know the velocity for any given load one must actually test it from their gun.

In fact, I'll go way out on a limb here and suggest further that testing be conducted using different test equipment at times that provide varied test environment.
Like on a real hot day AND a real cold day.
With your XYZ chrono and another's ZXY chrono.
With AT LEAST 20 rds fired during each session.

Way too many assumptions about published data, too. Published data is simply a guide.
One weight bullet can vary wildly in performance versus a different brand bullet of same weight (think Barnes vs Sierra vs Nosler vs Cast Performance).
MY lot of H110 (W295?) may vary significantly from YOUR (modern) lot of H110 (W296?).
My (old) 2400 and AA9 may differ radically from your lot of (new) 2400 and AA9.
I might use CCI magnum primers and you might test with Winchester.
I might only use new sized cases for maximum-performance ammo, and you might be fine using fired cases.
Our actual OAL might vary over .005".
I might chrono at 946 ft above sea level and you might test at 200.
I might use my 5.5" and 7.5", and you might use a 4 5/8".

So in the dual interests of safety and gun longevity, assume NOTHING; start LOW and work up SLOW; actually TEST then KNOW.

Yeah.....

 

[Bucks Owin]

Buck,
Right off Hogdon's websight 18.0 gr's of H-110 under a 300gr XPT is 1266 FPS.Thats what the manfacture shows ,so if you uped the load by .7 grains you should be close.Their data for a 300 gr bullet is 19.0grs max so a load of 23.5 grs is an overload of 4.5 grs. not a good idea I.M.H.O.
Lou

Data here: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

21 grs W296/325 gr LSWC/WLP gave me 1162 fps not long ago...

25.5 grs W296/250 XTP/WLP primer went 1343 fps in my 7.5"...

Like Weshoot said, one needs to actually chrono their own gun... :wink:

Hodgdon also claimed some impressive .357 mag velocities with LilGun when introduced but danged if I could match their claim... :?

FWIW, the Linebaugh loads I've used clock pretty much what John says they will....Hodgdon's pressure barrels? Not so much.. :wink:

 

[pps]

Buck,
Right off Hogdon's websight 18.0 gr's of H-110 under a 300gr XPT is 1266 FPS.Thats what the manfacture shows ,so if you uped the load by .7 grains you should be close.Their data for a 300 gr bullet is 19.0grs max so a load of 23.5 grs is an overload of 4.5 grs. not a good idea I.M.H.O.
Lou

Data here: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

21 grs W296/325 gr LSWC/WLP gave me 1162 fps not long ago...

25.5 grs W296/250 XTP/WLP primer went 1343 fps in my 7.5"...

Like Weshoot said, one needs to actually chrono their own gun... :wink:

Hodgdon also claimed some impressive .357 mag velocities with LilGun when introduced but danged if I could match their claim... :?

FWIW, the Linebaugh loads I've used clock pretty much what John says they will....Hodgdon's pressure barrels? Not so much.. :wink:

Do they still use a 10" test barrel

 

[Bucks Owin]

My Hodgdon data shows a 10" pressure barrel for .357 mag, for .45LC in "Ruger, FA and T/C" loads a 7.25" ...

 

[Rick Courtright]

My Hodgdon data shows a 10" pressure barrel for .357 mag, for .45LC in "Ruger, FA and T/C" loads a 7.25" ...

Hi,

By "pressure barrel" I assume we're talking about a fixed breech, universal receiver. In that case, simply eliminating the "loss" from the barrel-cylinder gap can have quite an effect.

And temperature CAN have major effects, depending on load. Just one example:

Years ago, another fellow and I did a lot of shotgun chronographing for our customers at the trap & skeet range. He had done some work w/ a major powder mfr during his military days, and described some of the parameters that could be controlled in the lab that we simply couldn't manage in the field.

One of them's temperature. He said the lab he was in used 70 deg F as their test temperature. Our field temps sometimes rose as high as 110 deg F during the summer. On rare occasions, they could also drop to mid-30s in winter.

What we "learned" for practical purposes was that if we plugged in a "correction" factor, we could do coarse but reasonably consistent adjustments to compare some of our field data w/ book data. W/ the powders, components and guns available to us, we settled on ~3fps/deg F above 70. (We never came up w/ a reliable number going below 70.) So, if it was 110, we had 3 fps times 40 deg, which gave us 120 fps difference. That's 10% of a "standard" trap load--quite a change!

One reason this was of interest to us was that, at the time, such a load COULD have even been interpreted to be an "illegal" competition load, as the rules at the time spec'd 1200 fps +25 fps as a max but didn't mention temperature. So a "legal" load at 70 could technically become "illegal" at the temps we'd encounter at our summer tournaments. It would be kind of the opposite end of the spectrum from those pistol sports where one must "make major" and some loads just squeak by.

There's a huge amount of variance in all ammo, be it shotshell or metallic, so it's best to believe YOUR chrono in YOUR gun and just let the other guy's report serve as a guide just like you would "the book."

All in all, you're probably not doing ANYTHING wrong!

Rick C

 

[cruzerlou]

Well Buck ,I'm just going by the data provided ,I can't afford a good Crhono So i believe you . I'll tell you this though my 240 XPT load is death on deer out of ether revolver or the rifle out to 150 yards and thats all I need it to do anyway .
Lou

 

[63November]

Buck,
Right off Hogdon's websight 18.0 gr's of H-110 under a 300gr XPT is 1266 FPS.Thats what the manfacture shows ,so if you uped the load by .7 grains you should be close.Their data for a 300 gr bullet is 19.0grs max so a load of 23.5 grs is an overload of 4.5 grs. not a good idea I.M.H.O.
Lou

The Hodgdon website, Blackhawk, FA, and T/C, data shows:

335 GR. CPB LFN GC Hodgdon H110 .452" 1.680"
20.5 1109 19,200 CUP 23.5 1240 28,000 CUP

This is for lead; jacketed is generally less:

300 GR. SPR JFP Hodgdon H110 .451" 1.650"
21.8 1191 26,700 CUP 22.2 1198 30,100 CUP

FWIW, I've run a pretty goodly number of 320 cast bullets through my Blackhawk and Redhawk revolvers with 23.0 grains of W 296. The former, a 4 5/8" generally runs 11xx something; the latter wi/ 5 1/2" barrel gets around 1240. 300 grain chunks of lead, even at 'only' the speed of sound, seem to be pretty formidable penetrators in my experience.

 

[cruzerlou]

Well guye I guess I should have said that I was looking at .44 mag data for jacketed bullets.+.I didn't know there was a seprat data sheet for Blackhawk,F.A.'s and T.C's . Where do I find this on the Hodgen website?
Thanks a lot .
Lou

 

[RalphS]

I don't really care whether you guys believe me or not but here are my chrono results -

Shooting Chrony Beta set 15 feet from muzzle
Temps 90 degrees
Redhawk 45LC 4 inch barrel
Missouri Bullet Company 300 grain hardcast
MAX load of H110
Avg Vel 1238 fps
Std Dev 29 (I'm not happy with this. Need to shoot some more and collect more data)
Sample Size 14
no signs of overpressure

Same load with the Cast Performance 300 gr hardcast gives 1258 fps but I don't have enough data yet.

Not bad for a 4 inch barrel.

btw, I measured the Buffalobore 325 grain hardcast out of this gun and it got 1275 fps which means that they might be using more H110 than I am willing to do or they are using a better powder than H110 not available to reloaders or maybe they are really pushing the pressure up to 30K psi.

 

[tek4260]

What is MAX load of H110?

 

[tek4260]

And yes, I am stirring the pot. I am happy with my load and don't feel a bit undergunned. I just think we get a bit optimistic on our velocities sometimes. :)

 

[RalphS]

What is MAX load of H110?

I don't like publishing my load numbers on the Internet. If you go to the Hodgdon website, you'll see that they don't provide load data for 300 gr. 45LC hardcast bullets. So, take the data for the 325 grain CPB bullet Max Load published there and make adjustments as you see fit.

Another thing - I'm not sure how accurate the Shooting Chrony Beta is. I have nothing to calibrate it with. I did test it shooting some CCI 22LR standard velocity ammo through my Anschutz rifle and the numbers were very close to what they are supposed to be so I tend to believe the numbers. But it's not an Oehler.