Unburned Powder

[Boatbuilder]

While trying out some new loads in my 5.5" Ruger Bisley 45 Colt today, I noticed unburned powder in the chambers and barrel. While unloading the spent cases, there was odor I can only describe as "something burning," not the usual aroma of gun smoke. The load was 17.0 grains of IMR 4227 behind a Hornady 250 grain XTP using CCI 300 primers - a standard pressure load below the max in the Lyman manual. I've seen this before when using RL7 in 45-70 rifle loads, but not with the burning smell. Other than the odd smell, the ammo shot fine with good accuracy and light recoil in the stout Ruger. Is this anything to worry about? Should I try a different primer for standard pressure 45 Colt loads? Is it perhaps related to less than full cases? Thanks in advance for your help.
Jon

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Assuming all that's in your load is "per the book" I'd start with a little more crimp. Slower burning powders often need a bit of extra "hold" to get lit off properly. You'll hear all kinds of stories about "neck tension" being enough. That's a fine topic for forum fodder, but in real life the factories have crimped EVERYTHING I've ever gotten from them. Since they load a lot more ammo than I do (like several times my lifetime count over 50 years in a single day? ), I tend to think they may have learned something of value along the way. As such, I try to follow their lead.

Now, if something like your primer isn't "per the book", I'd still start with a little more crimp, and if that doesn't do the job, then start changing components.

How you add crimp is up to you: some folks like to use their regular seating/crimping die, either in a "regular" 3 step process just adding a little more crimp in small increments, or a 4 step process (adjust die to seat bullet with no crimp, then come back and adjust for crimp and no seating), while others don't care to dink around with such stuff as much and go with a dedicated 4 step process, using either a second seating/crimping die, or a fourth die like the Redding Profile or Lee Factory Crimp dies. I like the Lee FCD myself, but whatever you like will do the job.

Good luck!

Rick C

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

^^^ +1 ^^^
Slow burning powders like heavy bullets,heavy crimps and charges that are near or at maximum for best burn. Reduced charges with standard for caliber weight bullets work best with faster burning powders like Unique.

 

[Luckyducker]

I agree fully with Rick Courtright about needing a good crimp, also sometimes these ball powders get better ignition with a hotter primer such as a magnum, and finally sometimes lower pressure loads can cause unburned powder issues. Unburned powder is not harmful to anything other than the kernels of powder can get into the lock works and wreak havoc with the functioning of the action, I know this from experience. :roll:

 

[tsubaki]

If the unburned powder is prevalent with each shot and you are still in the testing mode try some with CCI350 primers.

I get filthy when shooting Blue Dot in 45acp and was advised to do the same.
Though I've not yet done it, this is on my list to try.

About half of the data I could find advises to use CCI350 primers when using IMR4227 in 45colt.

 

[Slenk]

CCI350 primers sure made a difference in my 44s when I used IMR 4227. Cleaned right up. No more unburnt powder. It also likes heavy crimp & heavy bullets .

 

[Jimbo357mag]

The Hodgdon online data does not show any 45 colt loads using IMR4227 or H4227. If you move up to 'Ruger Only' loads there are many for H4227. I would not use that powder for soft loads in the 45 colt.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

[loaded round]

I agree with the others about a tighter crimp using a slow burning powder like IMR-4227. I experienced the same thing, especially the unburned powder, many years ago when first starting loading my Smith Model 29 with heavy cast bullets and 2400 powder.

 

[DGW1949]

Any/all powders are designed to burn best within a specific pressure range, and trying to use IMR4227 for a "standard" .45LC "service load" aint going to get you there. That said though, my Speer Manual say's that you should be using a CCI Magnum primer....most probably because doing so will help get the pressure up a bit, which in turn, MIGHT help with the "unburned powder" problem....or not...meaning that when it's all said 'n done, you'd still be using the wrong powder for what you're wanting to do, so at best, switching to the recommended (magnum) primer is more of a crutch than a cure.

You can take it from there.

DGW

 

[7p's]

Pretty typical of IMR4227 with below max loads. The CCI350 primer is a hot one and has a sharp peak pressure spike, which might reduce some of that un-burnt powder residue. I would just increase your charge closer to your manuals top-end loads.

If you keep shooting low pressure loads you'll sooner or later experience your cylinder tying up where the cylinder experiences difficulty closing - that will be because one of those un-burnt powder particles will get under your star extractor - just brush it out and you'll be good to go.

 

[sixshot]

No star extractor on a Ruger Bisley but I agree on bumping up the powder charge with 4227, switching to a mag primer & also add some crimp & I think you will see a cleaner, more complete burn. Reduced loads of 4227 just don't match up in a big 45 Colt case & your load is border line. A very popular load with a 250 gr. cast slug is 20 grs. of 4227 just for reference.

Dick

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Several posters have noted that low pressures can add to the list of problems. Just one person's experience here, but regardless of the load, I've found that using recipes which produce pressures within about 10% or so of SAAMI max will usually give me the best results.

For example, if SAAMI says 35,000 psi max (say, .357 Mag), and I can find two loads which show the same velocity on paper, and one produces 31,500 psi (~90% of max), while the other produces 27,500 psi (~79% of max), the higher pressure load will probably work better. The fact SAAMI limits the .45 Colt to about 14,000 psi (I don't subscribe to the "Ruger Only" school of thought so I'll leave that part of the discussion to the guys who do) means there's not a wide range to work with...

Naturally, as with so many things in the reloading world, YMMV!

Rick C

 

[Boatbuilder]

Thanks for all the responses. The cases were crimped, but not heavily. I also double checked the manual and it showed large pistol primers, but I will use magnum primers if I try this load again. More likely I'll just switch to Unique for standard pressure 45 LC loads and save the 4227 for 44 mag rifle loads where it has worked well for me in the past.

 

[Rclark]

Always use Magnum Primers with 4227. More consistent. 4227 smells different from other powders (I kind of like it). It will always leave a bit of residue (to me they look like tiny black/grey balls in barrel or on bench if shooting from there). No biggie. My favorite load with 4227 is 20g under a 250g RNFP or 255g SWC (I never use jacketed in my revolvers). YMMV of course and check your sources. Taffin liked this load too.

Note: My chrono tests showed for example of Extreme Spread:

20.0g IMR 4227, 255g SWC, CCI-300, _911fps, 139 ES (30 shots) (normal primer)
20.0g IMR 4227, 255g SWC, CCI-350, 1030fps, _69 ES (15 shots) (magnum primer)

Here is another resource for loads too, you'll notice 4227 is a Tier 2 load:

Brian Pearce .45 Colt loads