Ultimate 9mm target pistol

[Yosemite Sam]

I don't participate much in this section, but have been thinking about this recently so figured I might as well ask here.

I'm looking for a high quality target 9mm. I've had at least a dozen 9s over the years, including all the popular ones like Glock (17, 17L), Sig (P225, P228), Browning HP, AR-24, Beretta 92, etc. Of all these, the Glock 17L has been the most accurate, believe it or not. I really, really want to love my BHP more, but the Glock just plain outshoots it. Now if it just fit my hand properly.

What would be your suggestion for the most accurate, comfortable, ergonomic 9mm target pistol?

-- Sam

 

[Grendel]

I don't participate much in this section, but have been thinking about this recently so figured I might as well ask here.

I'm looking for a high quality target 9mm. I've had at least a dozen 9s over the years, including all the popular ones like Glock (17, 17L), Sig (P225, P228), Browning HP, AR-24, Beretta 92, etc. Of all these, the Glock 17L has been the most accurate, believe it or not. I really, really want to love my BHP more, but the Glock just plain outshoots it. Now if it just fit my hand properly.

What would be your suggestion for the most accurate, comfortable, ergonomic 9mm target pistol?

-- Sam

Not from personal experience, but shooters I know and do well: M&P 9L/Pro.

-JT

 

[Snake45]

What would be your suggestion for the most accurate, comfortable, ergonomic 9mm target pistol?

-- Sam

Something on the 1911 platform. You might have to have it built, or build it yourself from hand-picked parts. Something suitable might be available over the counter, I don't keep up with 9s enough to say. But I do know that the 1911 is a well-developed, mature target platform, and that excellent 9mm parts are available for it.

My only 9s are S&Ws, P.38s, and a P-35, but if I wanted a "target" 9, I'd build up a 1911 without a second thought.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Probably the most accurate factory 9mm target pistol is the CZ Champion or for a little less the Tactical Sport. Both are fairly expensive, over $1100 for the Tactical Sport. They also make the CZ SP-01 Shadow which is a factory tuned version of the SP-01 and it is very accurate. You can get one of those for $800. The 1911 9mm target guns are very nice but they pull pretty hard on your wallet.

added note: nix the Champion, they only make it in a .40 now.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Thanks guys; I'll out those M&Ps. I like the idea behind them, and owned an XD once before (similar "next generation Glock" concept).

I've always liked the 9mm 1911s myself, but have always managed to convince myself they were a bad idea. I've heard of mag/feed problems, and the like. But now Springfield makes one, and it's getting good reviews, so it might be worth another look-see.

Hmm... CZ. Good thought. I've never tried one of their single actions...

-- Sam

 

[marlin1881]

I have to agree with Snake45, in that the 1911 platform provides the best machine for accuracy, provided that all parts are properly fitted. The trigger is one item that excels in the 1911. From a load standpoint, I've had good success with Hornady XTP bullets pushed by a medium burnrate powder; i.e. PowerPoint work well but it's for true magnum velocities. I'm going to test a bit of Longshot Hodgdon powder. Take a look at their website and see the ballistics. I think it's going to work quite well. On the fast powder end, I've had good luck with Titegroup, but you can't push it real hard.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Hmm... CZ. Good thought. I've never tried one of their single actions...

-- Sam

Sam the CZ Tac Sport is a single action, the SP-01's are DA/SA

 

[Snake45]

I have to agree with Snake45...

Boy, I don't hear that much around here! Thanks for brightening my whole day! :wink:

 

[TRanger]

They're pretty pricey, but the SIG P210 is probably the most accurate 9mm there is. Another consideration would be Smith & Wesson's M952

 

[marlin1881]

I have to agree with Snake45...

Boy, I don't hear that much around here! Thanks for brightening my whole day! :wink:

Quite welcome! I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Actually, I shoot bullseye with a 1911 in centerfire and 45, and I know how well the 1911 platform can shoot.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

They're pretty pricey, but the SIG P210 is probably the most accurate 9mm there is. Another consideration would be Smith & Wesson's M952

Yeah, that's sort of one of those "holy grail" guns. But then you start running into issues with parts availability, $250 magazines, etc. I do like the M952, too.

I had a Sig Elite Stainless P226 on order for a while, but after 8 or so weeks of waiting, canceled it and moved on to something else. Finally months later my shop got one, and I'm fairly happy I didn't get it; It seems pretty heavy, a dressed up standard gun, and not real special for the $1075 price.

The Sig X-5 might not be bad, but then we're up near $2K again, and for that, it better be real special.

Others I'm keeping an eye out for are the Pardini GT-9, the Beretta Steel, and the Sphinx. Unlike the others, you can sometimes find the latter for less than the cost of a small car...

Well, I've got some ideas... There's a new 1911 maker offering parts kits, and they have an all-steel 9mm gun "in the white". That might be fun.

-- Sam

 

[Ruber]

If you like the HPs and they fit your hand well, you should check out some hi power forums ( http://hipowertalk.com/forum/ ). I've had three and all have out shot any other semi-auto I've ever shot. Most problems I've seen others have is with the trigger being gritty and grabby which can be easily smoothed out (something I do before the first shot). My bare bones stock HP has done some amazing things in the hands of friends who shoot IDPA.

I've also seen long slide Browning HPs that people use to make major in IPSC also, that might be a fun option if you like the platform.

(However, my old BKH36 out shoots the HP in my hands, but they may be biased on that one...)

 

[marlin1881]

I'd like to build a parts gun 1911, hand-fitting every step. The 9mm can be quite accurate. I'm also trying some 147gr cast bullets now, with the theory that bearing surface and a flat base, can contribute to accuracy. I've got a lot of powders to choose from, but haven't quite found that special one just yet. I think I mentioned above, that I'm going to try some Longshot powder, as it has the fill-ratio and burning rate that should work quite well.

I've got a Springfield XDm 9mm, which I've fitted a Springer Precision trigger system to it. Fantastic gun, but the trigger still isn't on par with what you can get from a 1911. But, the more I shoot that XDm, the more I like it. There is a big difference between the XD and the XDm.

 

[Hamcan]

If you are thinking about a 9mm 1911, and I sure have, the issue of reliability/feeding has been a concern for many. The Springfield is supposed to be decent. STI makes some real nice ones: The Trojan, government size, the Ranger II, a commander model. They are supposed to be very accurate and a pleasure to shoot....cheaper 'cause it's 9mm too!! I have not shot one, but I've probably read every post on every forum about them, and I'm jonsing one badly. I've just exhausted my budget for the next couple of years on a CD HP, CZ P01 and a Colt (.45).

Go here: http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/inde ... page=index

to see the STI's. CZ is a line to look at as well. The CZ 75 B is quite nice. I got the P01 because it is a little smaller, but for target, the 75 B is probably a little better. I love the P01 and the HP. Both triggers can be made to be pretty nice.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Yeah, I've still got my AR-24, which is basically a clone of a CZ75-B. A better looking, more ergo clone (IMO, of course), but a clone. I also owned another clone, a Baby Eagle in .40 S&W at one point.

I've also got a DW CBOB, so I know they do nice work, and am half holding out for their next 9mm offering. They've been hinting at another one for a while now.

And yes, I've considered just working with my HP, sending it out for trigger and accurizing work, installing an adjustable rear sight, etc. The trigger isn't bad, even with the mag safety; I removed it at one point, then put it back, and have never felt compelled to remove it again.

FYI, here's the link for Fusion Firearms, which is the company I mentioned above that produces kits. The 9mms are about 2/3 of the way down the page, or just search in-page for "9mm".

Thanks! This got the juices flowing. Now to decide which way to go...

-- Sam

 

[revhigh]

Where's Revhigh when you really need him?

I'm with Cheese on this one all the way ... SP01 / or SP01 Shadow. IMO, the Standard SP01 will most likely be more accurate than you are. For that matter, a regular old 75B will probably do it.

PS ... 1911's are 45's ... PERIOD .... and .40's are garbage for anything other than LE.

REV

 

[Snake45]

I believe Patrick Sweeney--who's as sharp a handgun guy as anyone writing today--had an article in the last couple months on a 9mm 1911 he built specifically for long-range (100+ yard) shooting. It shot damn well, too, IIRC.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I'm a Pat Sweeney fan, he's a good gun writer and that's what he does writes about guns not a bunch of munesha. He is the guy that did the SR9 torture test. He also is a competitive shooter and likes to talk nuts and bolts about it.

 

[marlin1881]

I believe Patrick Sweeney--who's as sharp a handgun guy as anyone writing today--had an article in the last couple months on a 9mm 1911 he built specifically for long-range (100+ yard) shooting. It shot damn well, too, IIRC.

Just happened to have that Guns and Ammo mag on my desk - June 2009 pg. 46. It was an STI gun with a Kart barrel, Bo-mar sights, special chamber reaming, shooting mostly Hornady 124gr XTP factory loads. He's got a target showing an average group of 1.5" at 25 yds. He discusses 100 yd, 200 yd, and 300 yd shooting (2' groups at this range). Sight alignment was a challenge. :shock:

 

[ab4ka]

For a factory gun, the best one I've had was a Springfield XD9 Tactical. It would do a whole lot better than anything I was capable of. I'd put it on par with a G34 any day and I liked the feel of the trigger better.

 

[22/45 Fan]

I have a Les Baer Premier II 1911 in 9 mm and it routinely groups in 1" to 1-1/2" at 25 yards with my nothing special reloads. Feed and ejection reliability has been excellent for over 2000 rounds. They aren't cheap but building up a 1911 from parts can get very expensive very fast even if the base pistol was fairly low cost.

I obviously agree that the 1911 platform is the way to go for a true target pistol. Very little comes close to the quality of the trigger pulls that can be obtained.

The only other pistol I considered was the S&W 952 which has a stellar reputation for accuracy and a great trigger. Unfortunately, Smith won't (or can't) put an ambidextrous safety on it and, being left-handed, that was a must have for me.

 

[cwo3usmc]

I concur with the 1911 platform for target. I have a Springer fully loaded and a STI Trojan, both in 9mm and they are both great shooters. Mind you, these are NOT the GI issue versions with their loose fit, shoot anything and barndoor accuracy I carried for years on active duty! The Springer is cheaper, but STI is worth the extra. The slide rails feel like they are on roller bearings. It is tight, extremely accurate, and hasn't failed on any diet. I have the tirggers on both down to 3# with a crisp, clean break...doesn't get any better for target shooting. I also have a Springer EMP which is excellent, and while extremely accurate and flawless functioning, I don't consider its smaller package the idea target weapon. YMMV

 

[Leucoandro]

I don't participate much in this section, but have been thinking about this recently so figured I might as well ask here.

I'm looking for a high quality target 9mm.

What would be your suggestion for the most accurate, comfortable, ergonomic 9mm target pistol?

Well, you could get a Thompson Center Contender in 9mm. I have always found them to be very accurate.


Charlie

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Funny you should mention that. I have a Contender, and am expecting a .223 barrel for it soon. It's currently set up with a .22 LR barrel. Getting a 9mm is an option. As is an older Bisley Blackhawk .38/.357 with the 9mm conversion cylinder, if I could find one. I love the Bisley, and have three in other calibers.

The STI might be an option, too. I've got a half dozen 9s right now, and would consider selling a few to finance a new one, that would presumably take the place of those sold. Been looking for the "perfect" one for a while now...

I think that before doing that I may go ahead and do some work on (and with) the BHP. I originally got it because that was the platform JB designed for the 9mm, much as he designed the 1911 for the .45. I like to go with proven designs, and have not had luck trying to make things work as not designed. I know the 9mm 1911s have improved over the years, but I've still got this niggly worry. Not that the occasional FTF is that big a deal in a target gun...

My DW .45 feels like it's on greased ball bearings, too. It's a nice feeling when you get a pistol that really does feel like some quality went into it. My older S&W revos are like that, too.

-- Sam

 

[Snake45]

The P35 is a much more...what's the word? Subtle? Nuanced? Design than the 1911. There are things about it that are much better than the 1911 design, and things about it that aren't nearly as good.

Mine has worn a Ciener .22 conversion since they became available in the spring of 2004. One of my favorite shooting/plinking/training pistols in that guise; I simply love it. Not my first choice in a defensive handgun though (not that we were talking about that anyway).

 

[Yosemite Sam]

P35... I forgot that was another name for the BHP, and had to check out the P38 reference. That reminded me that I know of a minty P5 for sale for a good price. Probably wouldn't be my "ultimate 9mm", but would make an interesting addition to the collection.

Always the problem: More, or better?

-- Sam

 

[Snake45]

I'd love to have a P5, and/or a P88. Walther hasn't produced anything since then that has interested me in the slightest.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

The one I know of is real clean, comes with a box and 2 mags, and is well under $500. It's being offered on a forum, so if you're interested, let me know and I'll forward you the details.

I'm tempted myself, and have been since I first saw it two months ago, but I need "yet another 9mm" like I need a hole in the head. Heck, there's a W. German P226 sitting in my dealer's case at an attractive price that I'd like, too. I'm poking around looking for a good target gun, not just a good gun. The P5 does have panache, uniqueness, and styling on its side...

-- Sam

 

[kujiin]

Is it safe to say the "taurus" name here? if so I have the 24/7 OSS in 9mm with 5.25 inch barrel. Really an accurate pistol, one can be had if you look for about $350..


Kuj

 

[Tallinthesaddle]

For some $$$$ H&K USP Tactical.
Quality firearm.