Tweaking my Flattop 44???

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29aholic

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
390
Location
Flemington MO
A few questions. My gun I believe is one of the Lipsey runs. 5 1/2" barrel
1) I have checked the bore with a tight patch and it does not seem to be choked at the frame like I have heard of some. I have about 150 or so rounds down the barrel and I am getting a trace of leading at the forcing cone (load is 6.2gr Trail Boss with a semi soft cast bullet). I have heard Ruger chamber throats are sometimes under sized. Has anybody fire lapped their chamber throats versus reaming them?

2) The pin for the rear sight keeps walling out of the frame. In the past on Colt Gold Cups I have taken that pin and bent it slightly. Is there another fix?

3) Other than looks is there any advantage to going to the Keith #5 base pin?

4) I have done the "Poor Boy's" trigger job on it and it s really not bad at all. Sans sending it to someone is there a way to get much better?

5) What does it take to take out the internal lock?

6) As stated above I am loading 6.2gr of TB with a 200gr cast bullet for now. Has anybody gone warmer with TB? I am not looking to make a magnum out of it I have plenty of those, but maybe something a little zippier. Going by Hodgdon max is a case full to the base of the bullet.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,479
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
I'll try to offer some help.

1. I'd try a different brand of bullet,, maybe a bit harder to see if you still get leading. Most 44 cal guns do not suffer the same issues as the 45's.
2. We do the slight bend the pin thing too. Easiest & cheapest fix.
3. Many folks feel a Belt Mtn base pin takes out cylinder slop. However,,, sometimes the "slop" is necessary to allow the cylinder to align properly as the bullet transitions from the cylinder to the bbl.
4. Many feel the poor boy trigger job is just fine. I've found it much better to have the action parts "cleaned up" by a gunsmith, (I do my own) is the best way to go. I've bought a few NICE Rugers because someone had slipped off one leg of the spring, causing it to bind the mainspring & make the action feel "bad." I got a 357 Maxi for $275 like that.
5. The infernal,,, eerr,,, internal lock. It can be modified. The easiest way is to replace the grip frame. There is a tutorial somewhere on this site that explains how to remove it & modify things.
6. I don't worry about maxing out TB. But if I want something zippier, yet not "magnum" level, I use a different powder.

I hope this helps a little.
 

29aholic

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
390
Location
Flemington MO
Thanks for the advice so far.

I have some harder bullets in 240gr. If I am loading lower velocity stuff I tend to lean toward a softer bullet so it will obturate better. Would I benefit any at all by fire lapping?

I figured bending the pin was the easiest.

There does seem to be some slop in the cylinder. Is the Belt Mtn. oversized but still plug and play or does it take some fitting?

I usually do the clean up myself too, but I notice more and more gunsmiths are selling ready made drop in components. I don't know if it is being offered for the BH's and if so is there a difference.

I am not really concerned too much with the internal lock since you cant see it. I does add a little weight back there. If it was as simple as replacing the mainspring strut I might go for it. Beyond that I will leave it be.

I was actually going to go with my standby powder 700X but I had TB in the hopper so I figured I'd give it a try.
I would like to find a load for 800X as I have quite a bit of it.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,479
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
Firelapping helps a bore constriction,,, not necessarily the reason for a little leading.

Bending the spring is one way,,, and unhooking one leg is another way. It's the unhooked legs that can cause issues. If you can bend the spring & not mess it up, (they are cheap to replace anyway,) then maybe try it. I still prefer a cleaned up action.

Generally, the Belt Mtn pins fit right in,, just tighter.

No such thing as drop in parts in most cases. Fitting is still required in most cases. If anybody has any,,,it'd be Power Custom.

The lock issue requires a bit more than replacing the strut.

Never tried 700X or 800X at all in mine. No help here.
 

Poco Oso

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
1,970
Location
Central Orygun
Here's a link for some spring modifications. (click on "gun notes" on the left side bar)

http://www.cylindersmith.com/

My wife has a Lipsey's flat top, in .45 Colt/ACP. The throats on both cylinders were tight, and were leading around the forcing cone. I had them reamed and pretty much eliminated all of it. Accuracy also improved. I installed a Wolff reduced weight spring in hers (trigger spring only) and polished some internals and it's a joy now. Good luck with yours.
 

Enigma

Hunter
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
2,529
Location
Houston metro area, TX
No personal experience with the Power Custom hammers and triggers, but everyone who has used them reports a significant improvement in the action's feel, and no fitting required. One could alternately buy the Power Custom trigger stoning fixture with the Ruger adapter for about the same amount of coin, and then could stone many Ruger triggers - that's the approach that I took.

FWIW, Brownells carries both the stoning fixture and the replacement PC parts - and factory parts, as well.
 

SAJohn

Hunter
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
2,300
Location
Terrebonne, Oregon, USA
I have an old model .357 Blackhawk whose cylinder holes were a bit low to the barrel bore. The Belt Mountain cylinder pin took a bit of fitting but raised up the cylinder and the improvement in accuracy was amazing. Shimming is a bit tricky but can also help.

I only use the bent spring method on new models. I carefully polish the sear surfaces on all of my firearms. I do not use any sort of fixtures to do the honing other than clamping and good lighting. I do not change the main springs. All of my Blackhawks now have smooth trigger pulls in the 2 to 3 pound range.
 

Hondo44

Hawkeye
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
8,051
Location
People's Republik of California
Eliminating the lock is the easiest thing you asked about.

Chapter 3. Internal locks: To replace a grip frame with an internal lock (which was discontinued in 2012),
with one that was not made for the lock, all the internal parts and the hammer spring can be transferred to the replacement grip frame, except for the lock of course. But a standard spring perch, Ruger # KXR00500, or the Bearcat perch discussed below for its added advantages, is needed to mount the hammer spring.
Or just the Bearcat spring perch can be used to eliminate the lock from a grip frame that has one, see below.
When the locks first made their appearance in 2005 on the .357 Anniversary model Flat Top Blackhawk and New Vaquero, I started making and selling this titanium lock bypass seat:
orig.jpg


An even simpler alternative is just a flat piece of steel with an oblong hole for the spring strut that will work; the spring tension will keep it in place:
Back in 2007 I had my Bearcat apart and noticed that its spring seat is the longest seat made for any of the Ruger single actions, go figure!! It just bridges the gap in the grip frames made for the internal lock and I posted its use as a replacement for the lock, on the other Ruger forum at the time.

It's an inexpensive Ruger part, that's all I use now, and quit making/selling my own.

The beauty of the Bearcat spring seat is that it disassembles the same way as the lock with the disassembly pin hole right below the spring so the spring never has to be dismounted from it's strut, which can be a gruesome task for many.

To swap the Bearcat spring seat for the lock is the easiest swap there is. You don't even need to remove the grip frame, just the grips! After cocking the hammer, a disassembly pin like a nail is inserted into the spring strut hole thru the groove in the top edge of the lock. Now uncock the hammer so the spring and strut have play. This allows the lock to be wedged up and out of the grip frame, and off of the strut. Because the temporary pin used to hold the spring compressed, fits in the groove on the top of the lock, the spring is still captured on the strut.

Therefore the strut and spring assembly doesn't need removal from the hammer slot. More importantly, nor does the spring need to be dismounted from the strut like Ruger SAs w/o the lock, where the disassembly pin is inserted below the spring seat which is captured on the strut along with the spring.

With the regular spring seats captured on the strut with the spring, the grip frame must be removed or at least loosened to change spring weights. It's also more difficult to mount a spring and a seat on the strut, rather than just a spring.

Now once the lock is out of the grip frame, the Bearcat seat slips on the bottom end of the strut below the spring retaining pin. The Bearcat seat also has a round hole in it for the end of the strut, so once on the strut, it can be pivoted 90 degrees, strut and seat moved into position over the gap in the grip frame where the lock was, then pivoted 90 degrees onto the two shelves of the gap.

Now hold in place, cock the hammer, remove the spring retaining pin, and drop the hammer. Voila, all done. The seat doesn't overhang the gap very much on either side but once the spring tension is applied, the seat is held tightly in place.

I've been using these for years on dozens of guns and never had one slip yet. Some have reported issues retaining the Bearcat seat on the round corners of the grip frame gap: you can file a small shelf on either side of the gap in the grip frame to insure the seat stays put. If you have a Ruger with the new grip spacer and it doesn't fit back in the gun when installing the grips, the bearcat seat must be mounted in the other direction for the spacer to clear the hammer spring.
There you have it, the history of the Bearcat seat replacement for the Ruger lock which was discontinued in 2012.

I even use the Bearcat spring seat on other Ruger's w/o the lock so I can quickly try different spring weights which pre-mounted on spare struts because of the easy changeability with the Bearcat seat!

This is especially helpful on the single sixes because they have the same tension springs as the larger Blackhawks, but their shorter hammer has less leverage than the larger frames. .22s do need stiffer springs to detonate rim fire cartridges, especially the 22 Mags, but the Ruger springs are overkill IMO.

Therefore I experiment with spring tensions until I get a compromise of reliability of ignition and easier hammer cocking for my grand kids.

NOTE: the hammer springs that come with the lock in the New Vaqueros and Flat Top Blackhawks only, are only 25 coils since they were designed to be softer/lighter by Ruger for Cowboy Action shooters. I always retain them when removing locks and also use them as replacements in all other Ruger SAs.
 

DougGuy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
171
29aholic said:
I have heard Ruger chamber throats are sometimes under sized. Has anybody fire lapped their chamber throats versus reaming them?

Actually the best way IS to ream them, then hone afterwards to clean up behind the reamer. The one thing the reamer does that other methods of enlarging the throats don't do, is cut precise ROUND holes. For this reason I prefer the reamer because nothing beats it for precise holes. I use a Sunnen automotive hone to finish after reaming and it does really nice work.

If you can't push your bullets through the cylinder throats from the front, then the throats are smaller than the bullet, and regardless of what you initially size to, they are going to exit the front of the cylinder at whatever diameter the throats are. If your cylinder won't pass the push-through test with the bullets you are using, this is likely the reason you are getting some leading. If you'd like to send the cylinder and have the throats done send me a PM, I do hundreds of cylinders every year, excellent work done, lots of happy customers..
 
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