SRH vs SBH

[24mileboy]

Hello all,
Just recently purchased a NM SBH in 44 Mag and haven't shot it yet. I wondered at the capability of the SBH to handle loads that the SRH will handle. I use Buffalo Bore 300 gr in my SRH sometimes and wanted to know if the SBH will be ok with this load? Normal loads will be 240 cast with 23 or 23.5 w296.
Thanks,
Jon

 

[flatgate]

Ask Sundles about his ammo.

I know the SRH is also chambered in .454 but the Super Blackhawk is not.

Your safest bet is to follow "tried and true" loads.

flatgate

 

[24mileboy]

Flatgate,
Thanks for the reply.
We are not to far away from each other, my fathers family was from Etna.
Small world.
Jon

 

[reuben_j_cogburn]

I shoot "Alaska Ammo" 320gr hardcasts in my 5.5" SBH......
No troubles yet.. Although I admit I don't shoot a lot due to cost.. As soon as I get the room I'll replicate them on my reloading bench.. They shoot great....

reuben...

 

[24mileboy]

Reuben, Nice picture and good info,
Thanks for the response.
Jon

 

[mod31c]

Ive read that the super redhawks chambered in 454 and 480 are stronger than the 44mag I would say dont exceed the case pressure the manufacturer sets for the gun

 

[BigJ71]

The Super Blackhawk will handle any of the commercial +P+ loads (Buffalo Bore, Corbon, etc..) with no problem. I wouldn't want to push it to the 454 pressures, I don't think the cylinder will handle it. The frame most certainly would but the cylinder would give. The Super Redhawk cylinder is bigger and stronger than the Super Blackhawks cylinders.

I have fired many cylinders of the Buffalo Bore 340 gr. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.) ammo without a hitch out of my 7 1/2 and 5 1/2 supers.

 

[JimMarch1]

There are a few "over-long" 44Mag loads out there that will fit in an SRH but not the SBH. I don't think Tim Sundles at BB is doing that but it's possible? He'd know for sure and he's approachable by phone. Garrett Cartridge is known for that sort of load but they're very clear to mark them as such on their website and the ammo's box.

The issue isn't actually strength as much as it is length. If a given 44Mag cartridge will fit in an SBH, you can fire it unless it's fundamentally bad ammo (overcharge, etc.).

 

[COR]

Here the real deal....A cast bullet at an extra couple hundred feet per second doesn't gain you much of anything.

Yes it is a big boom, Yes you can brag to your friends, Yes you can spend $75 dollars on ammo (per box). None of which really means jack squat if you miss.

Cast bullets DO NOT NEED VELOCITY to be efficient killers. That same 240gr bullet with a nice flat nose at 1100-1200fps will do all a man needs.

No sense to push any firearm. It will hurt your hand, probably not be very accurate over extended shooting sessions, and for what? Accuracy wins the day, ALWAYS. The funny thing about pushing any handgun is you have to break it to know you went too far.

 

[bowfishn]

In some cases the extra velocity is not needed, but on the other hand, a cast 44 cal (or 45) bullet with a Meplat of .320 driven at 100 fps faster delivers an 8% greater wound channel, 200 fps 16% and so on. So even though it over penetrates it does more damage on the way through causing a quicker kill. I guess if you had a large dangerous animal bearing down on you quicker kill may be of importance to you.

1400 fps will also deliver at 100 yards what the 1200 does at the muzzle.

The extra 200 fps will help push a larger meplat further, and it is the Meplat diameter and not the caliber diameter that causes the wound channel, the larger calibers allows for a larger Meplat.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/wound.htm?v2=1400&v1=.322

It all depends on what your looking for.

 

[CraigC]

Cast bullets DO NOT NEED VELOCITY to be efficient killers. That same 240gr bullet with a nice flat nose at 1100-1200fps will do all a man needs.

Exactly!

 

[steve b]

The BB loads I've had were 305gr, and OK in my SBH. Have killed deer with the Federal CastCore 300grs and have decided the 255gr LBT type is enough for deer. My deer hunting is in the woods/hills/swamps. No shots past 50yds. I would not consider the 300gr and heavier loads unless I found the 255gr lacking in accuracy at distance, or had much bigger critters on the menu. The heavier BB,320 or 340 ?, +P+, I'd reserve for the RH's. steve b

 

[24mileboy]

Thanks for all of the replies. The SBH will probably be fed a diet of 240 gr casts at 11-1200 but I was curious of what it could take. I knew length was an issue and some of the BB recommend not using in certain revolvers.
Jon

 

[CraigC]

Basically, they can handle any load from a specialty loader like Buffalo Bore or Garrett that is not too long for the cylinder. For the handloader, 330's and 355's can be driven to 1350fps and 1250fps respectively. Brian Pearce even suggests that they can take loads near his maximums for the big DA's, which are in the 45-50,000psi range.

 

[COR]

In some cases the extra velocity is not needed, but on the other hand, a cast 44 cal (or 45) bullet with a Meplat of .320 driven at 100 fps faster delivers an 8% greater wound channel, 200 fps 16% and so on. So even though it over penetrates it does more damage on the way through causing a quicker kill. I guess if you had a large dangerous animal bearing down on you quicker kill may be of importance to you.

1400 fps will also deliver at 100 yards what the 1200 does at the muzzle.

The extra 200 fps will help push a larger meplat further, and it is the Meplat diameter and not the caliber diameter that causes the wound channel, the larger calibers allows for a larger Meplat.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/wound.htm?v2=1400&v1=.322

It all depends on what your looking for.

Nope...Still not buying any of that voodoo. Quote Stanton's numbers all you want, they are just numbers and THEORY. 8% to 16% greater wound channel is nothing but theoretic in any live animal. I'll rely on dead game to be my judge of efficient killing from my own hunting experiences and others. Speed just doesn't make ANY cast bullet a better killer. Stanton also writes that 1100fps is all a man needs with a cast bullet if you read him further.

Sorry to sidetrack the original post I just have a strong opinion of it.

 

[MMichaelAK]

bowfshn,
Im also a member over there at Marshall's site.
We go round and round over this one too.

The consensus of guys using heavy loads is wide meplats on moderately heavy to heavy bullets for caliber at moderately fast velocities.
300-325 grain bullets with wide meplats at 1100 -1200 fps.
My personal load is .45 Colt Starline cases, CCI large pistol magnum primers, 20 grains of H-110 and a 300 grain hardcast bullet. Yep, Wide flat nose gas checked.
1040 fps in my 4 5/8th inch barreled Rugers, 110 in the 5 1/2 inch barreled ones and just under 1200 in the 7 1/2 inch barreled guns. That and its SERIOUS out of the M92 carbine! No trouble penetrating and no troubles with function in Blackhawk or Redhawk.

 

[Bucks Owin]

bowfshn,
Im also a member over there at Marshall's site.
We go round and round over this one too.

The consensus of guys using heavy loads is wide meplats on moderately heavy to heavy bullets for caliber at moderately fast velocities.
300-325 grain bullets with wide meplats at 1100 -1200 fps.
My personal load is .45 Colt Starline cases, CCI large pistol magnum primers, 20 grains of H-110 and a 300 grain hardcast bullet. Yep, Wide flat nose gas checked.
1040 fps in my 4 5/8th inch barreled Rugers, 110 in the 5 1/2 inch barreled ones and just under 1200 in the 7 1/2 inch barreled guns. That and its SERIOUS out of the M92 carbine! No trouble penetrating and no troubles with function in Blackhawk or Redhawk.

Sounds like a fine load. Not quite "full tilt' yet very powerful and easier on the gun and cases... :wink:

I expect I have the only .45LC bullet I really "need" in the MP 270 SAA which in non HP form weigh about 290 grs. That said, a 340 gr LBT WFN PB mold and something light and lead frugal to cast for plinking like maybe Lyman 45468 would keep my "tinkering" itch scratched... :lol:

 

[TCGuy]

Ive read that the super redhawks chambered in 454 and 480 are stronger than the 44mag I would say dont exceed the case pressure the manufacturer sets for the gun

Ruger uses a different alloy of stainless for the .454.

More here: http://www.modernapplicationsnews.com/articles/m0401stainless.htm

http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1608

 

[mraywi]

Here the real deal....A cast bullet at an extra couple hundred feet per second doesn't gain you much of anything.

Yes it is a big boom, Yes you can brag to your friends, Yes you can spend $75 dollars on ammo (per box). None of which really means jack squat if you miss.

Cast bullets DO NOT NEED VELOCITY to be efficient killers. That same 240gr bullet with a nice flat nose at 1100-1200fps will do all a man needs.

No sense to push any firearm. It will hurt your hand, probably not be very accurate over extended shooting sessions, and for what? Accuracy wins the day, ALWAYS. The funny thing about pushing any handgun is you have to break it to know you went too far.

WELL SAID!!

 

[mraywi]

Ive read that the super redhawks chambered in 454 and 480 are stronger than the 44mag I would say dont exceed the case pressure the manufacturer sets for the gun

Ruger uses a different alloy of stainless for the .454.

More here: http://www.modernapplicationsnews.com/articles/m0401stainless.htm

http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1608

Beat me to it! Because of the different alloy this is comparing apples to oranges!!!

 

[bowfishn]

Nope...Still not buying any of that voodoo. Quote Stanton's numbers all you want, they are just numbers and THEORY. 8% to 16% greater wound channel is nothing but theoretic in any live animal. I'll rely on dead game to be my judge of efficient killing from my own hunting experiences and others. Speed just doesn't make ANY cast bullet a better killer. Stanton also writes that 1100fps is all a man needs with a cast bullet if you read him further.

Sorry to sidetrack the original post I just have a strong opinion of it.

All a man needs is just an opinion, you believe what you want, you have the right. Just remember it does not mean what you want to believe is right.
The closed mind is a sad thing.

 

[COR]

bowfishingguy

You are quoting "another mans" experience on paper (actually internet) ... I am telling you my own personal experience which admittedly is limited compared to some of the handgunners on here. I have been down the velocity road that you (actually Marshall) suggest and in real world experience it doesn't "kill better" (whatever that means) I am not the only hunter on here that believes this either. Velocity facts... It will recoil more, it will make some gun shy, it will cost more in powder but it will not be a better killer. Flat trajectory is not something I worry about much in a sixgun llimited to under 75yds but I can bust buckets at 300 - 500 yds all day (once I get the range)with some of my sixguns that I shoot well. I'm not trying to be "right", I'm telling you that no HUNTER shoots ballistic gelatin and those numbers like 8% or 16% greater wound channel are completely useless to any hunter. Go check the difference between 1 full inch and 1.16 inches and tell me what a 16th of an inch gets you. I have read all of Mr. Stanton's articles and he has some great info but some just isn't proveable in the field. I like accuracy and penetration, I used to think speed mattered too but it's just simply doesn't. Shot placement and ADEQUATE pentration to get to vitals (hopefully through and through) is what I want. Air in, Blood out and I usually find an animal within 50yds on average.

Since you actually did bring up the "dreaded charging dangerous game theory" I also believe that a CNS hit is about the only thing keeping a 350lb black bear (or a 700lb Grizz for that matter)from ending up in your lap on a charge, and even then you still may end up under a dead bear, black bear are quick buggers!...again no velocity claim there, just accurate shot placement with whatever you have. I actualllly have more issues with wild dogs and two leggers here in PA. I don't need more than a 44spl loaded with 200gr fn at 900fps for those varmints!

Let's try not to get personal...If you continue to feel the need to make it personal, PM me about my "closed mind". You may also want to thicken up the leather a bit as a suggestion. This forum runs on opinions.

 

[bowfishn]

PM sent

 

[Ruger4Life]

Some guys are quite happy with their 240 gr loads or whatever else. Yes, they do the job just fine on most critters.

I load a Oregon Trail True Shot 310gr HC Gas Checked .430 slug over 21.0 grains of W296 at 1200fps. Cuts through deer like butter, with no expansion of the bullet. No expansion needed either, since the wide meplat delivers such a shock to the deer that they act like they have been shocked with high voltage. They don't go far either.

I personally use this load because:
1.) It will kill anything that walks on all fours that I get a chance to hunt in the future. Penetration is amazing. I have full confidence that this load will completely penetrate a Grizzly lengthwize.
2.) Recoil is not as brutal as a "Keith load" with a 250gr SWC at 1300fps. Its more of a heavy push than the wrist-wrenching loads that use lighter bullets and faster powders.

But to each his own. Glad everyone has a favorite.