Speed Six in 9x23

[KurtC]

Posting these for a friend, who should chime in shortly. It is a Ruger stainless Speed Six that left the factory as a 9mm. It was converted to a DAO 9x23 by Hamilton Bowen.
Bowen also added his custom sights and gave it a matte finish.
Nifty little hiking pistol.

 

[Matt C.]

Nice camera work Kurt, thanks.

 

[dougader]

Gorgeous, like nearly everything Bowen does...

That's a real jump in power from 9x19 to 9x23 Winchester. I run 125's to 1500 fps in a 5" 1911a1.

It's a big jump in pressure, too; from 35,000 psi to 50,000 psi.

Would love to hear a range report! 8)

 

[Pale Horse]

I just can't look at that without commenting on it. That's a cool gun right there.

 

[KurtC]

Gorgeous, like nearly everything Bowen does...

That's a real jump in power from 9x19 to 9x23 Winchester. I run 125's to 1500 fps in a 5" 1911a1.

It's a big jump in pressure, too; from 35,000 psi to 50,000 psi.

Would love to hear a range report! 8)

I got to fire a few Winchester 9x23 loads thru it earlier today, along with some standard 9mm fodder. Still a pussycat with the 9mm, but the 9x23 felt more like a .357 magnum. No problem with a cylinder or two, but I wouldn't want to fire a qualification with them. :wink:

 

[Timber Wolf]

Hmmm, you just clued me in to what to do with all my high dollar 9X23 brass and ammo I am too cheap to run through and risk losing in my Colt 1911. I really like my 9mm Speed Six but that kind of power (9X23) out of a moon-clipped snub is fantastic! And still able to shoot standard 9mm for practice!

 

[MOUNTAIN WILLIAM]

Thanks, thanks a lot. Now I have to hunt for a stainless 9mm Speed Six.
I hope you're happy now.

 

[exlogger]

That is pure sweetness. A delicious, delectable, savory treat. I'm gonna need a moment alone boys. :shock:

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

That is Sweet!

 

[Matt C.]

Thanks, thanks a lot. Now I have to hunt for a stainless 9mm Speed Six.
I hope you're happy now.

Sorry Brother, but in my defense,I'm pretty much blamin Kurt.

 

[DeletedMember275]

Gorgeous, like nearly everything Bowen does...

And pretty darn cool, too, like nearly everything Bowen does. I had the pleasure of meeting Hamilton and shooting a couple of his personal guns a couple of years ago, including his MP40 SMG. I did decline the honor of shooting his titanium .50 AE revolver, though, after he assured me that it causes everyone who fires it to bleed! One of these days, I hope to have him build a special revolver for me.


Note: I'm the ugly, shorter one, firing the MP40.

 

[Lee Martin]

Neat little piece. Should be a good stopper.

 

[dougader]

Hey Matt, do you plan to load your own with this one? I know getting factory ammo can be hit or miss, but sometimes you can find Winchester or CorBon ammo. I have some of both, but handload the bulk of what I shoot.

I have a bunch of Blue Dot, and it performs well in most calibers for me. But, IME, it is really pretty average in the 9x23. I like AA7 and VV3N37.

 

[Matt C.]

Hey Matt, do you plan to load your own with this one? I know getting factory ammo can be hit or miss, but sometimes you can find Winchester or CorBon ammo. I have some of both, but handload the bulk of what I shoot.

I have a bunch of Blue Dot, and it performs well in most calibers for me. But, IME, it is really pretty average in the 9x23. I like AA7 and VV3N37.

I've found factory ammo (so far) but may very well do most of my range sessions with 9x19.
Thanks for the heads up on the powder.
Also, have you any experience with 147 gr silvertips (I found a source)?

 

[dougader]

Silvertips are good bullets IMO. I wouldn't pay Speer Gold Dot prices for them, and have never fired them in 9x23 but if I saw a really good price on them I'd buy them.

The 124 grain Speer GDHP 9mm bullet (not the 357 sig bullet) holds up really well to about 1400-1450 fps. Above that, I go with the 357 Sig GDHP. The Hornady xtp holds up well to 1400-1450 fps too but the jacket does separate from the core at that level.

VV powders have gotten really expensive. Winchester WAP was a popular powder in 9x23 before it was discontinued. People say that Silhouette is the same powder. I can't verify that.

You probably won't get the same velocities with the relatively short barrel revolver but still have a slick defensive weapon. Bowen does gorgeous work.

 

[Matt C.]

Thanks again Doug for the excellent reloading info.
Consider it filed.

 

[jjc333]

Mountain William, forget about the 9mm Speed Six; you can't find a nice one under $600. I sent my .38 cylinder off to TK Customs and he milled it for 9X23. Worked out cheaper than buying and converting a 9mm.

 

[JimMarch1]

Wonderful gun, BUT...you may have a problem shooting standard 9x19 in it. Maybe one of two different problems.

Is it set up to headspace purely with moon clips, or do the cylinder bores still have a "lip" that the front of the 9x23 shells rest on? In original form that gun would have had such a "lip" set for the depth of a 9x19 shell. Did Mr. Bowen eliminate the lip completely or did he move it deeper to 9x23? (One look inside the back of the cylinder with a light should tell the tale.)

If the latter, I would NOT shoot 9x19 in it period. Here's why: as the 9x19 bullet comes out of the shell, it will "scrape" on that lip at the 9x23 depth and deform. Even if accuracy doesn't suffer, the gun may be taking a considerable pounding as mutant "scraped" bullets hit the forcing cone and/or barrel throat.

If that "lip" is flat missing, then OK, the stress on the gun will be less...but...it'll still be there a little bit. Consider the example of shooting 22LR rounds in a 22Magnum chamber - the 22LR bullet will rattle around loose in the wider chamber area where the 22Magnum shell would have been if you were shooting the right ammo - and hit the cylinder's forcing cone at a funky angle. Accuracy suffers and the gun takes a beating. You really, really don't want to do that - which is why Ruger, Heritage, Chiappa, NAA and every other vendor past or present of 22LR/22Mag convertible revolvers does the caliber switch via separate cylinders instead of loading 22LR rounds into the 22Mag cylinder.

In your case the 9mm bullet will travel 4mm (the difference between 19 and 23) in a chamber that's significantly wider than the bullet width of .355 or .356. That may be enough to allow the bullet to skew off-kilter before hitting the forcing cone. The stress won't be as bad as the bullet hitting a 23mm deep "lip" but it'll still be there I think?

I would strongly recommend reloading for 9x23 instead of using 9x19 practice ammo.

In the example of shooting 38Spl in 357Mag chambers, the difference in length is only 2mm. We know that's not enough for significant skew to develop as the 38Spl bullet moves towards the forcing cone. But you're doing 4mm...even if there's no "lip", that's...not the same as 2mm. Mind you, I'm not 100% sure there would be a problem if that cylinder is a "no lip" type (requiring moon clips to headspace). I personally wouldn't do it.

If there's a lip...I think that's going to be worse.

 

[Matt C.]

Thanks for the heads up Jim.

Mr. Bowen had a max-spec reamer made to eliminate the step (loads w/moonclips).

On your second point, shooting only 9x23 is not an issue (though it seems to like .38 Super also) as it is not unpleasant to shoot and reloading components are readily available.

 

[Matt C.]

scratch that^
Lip was moved forward to accommodate 9x23.
Thanks again.

 

[KurtC]

Typical 9mm bullets extend about 10mm beyond the 9x19 case, well passed the lip of the 9x23 chamber. Unless you notice copper shavings in the chamber or the bullet keyholes into the target, there shouldn't be problem using 9x19.

Years ago I had a S&W 610 reamed out 10mm magnum (about 32mm case). The standard 10mm with its 25mm case shot fine, but the .40 S&W with its 22mm case produced shot gun patterns. The bullets were expanding too much before hitting the throat.

 

[Timber Wolf]

forget about the 9mm Speed Six; you can't find a nice one under $600.

An internet search would certainly lead one to think that. I had been sort of keeping my eyes open for one for a while and several months back had given up haggling on one listed locally for private sale at $600 when I happened upon one at a local pawn shop. When I asked to see it the girl behind the counter said, “oh yeah, that is that odd one”. I paid $405 OTD for it in somewhat rough, actually just really filthy, condition. It is fine mechanically it just was not at all cared for. The seller of the other one told me he did eventually get his price ($600). This past weekend I bought a second, very good condition, 9mm Speed Six for $432 total from a quick/high turnover Gun Show dealer. It is in very good, maybe excellent condition and came with a few 1/3, ½, and full moon clips. So now I have two, both purchased locally in less than a year and both in the low $400 range. If this (admittedly limited) sampling was all I knew, I would surmise that they are in fact plentiful, and fairly priced to boot! Now to be honest I did spend my first 51 years on this Earth without seeing even one and may spend the rest of my days without seeing another one for sale. But in the meantime, I have two of my very own. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[KurtC]

forget about the 9mm Speed Six; you can't find a nice one under $600.

An internet search would certainly lead one to think that. I had been sort of keeping my eyes open for one for a while and several months back had given up haggling on one listed locally for private sale at $600 when I happened upon one at a local pawn shop. When I asked to see it the girl behind the counter said, “oh yeah, that is that odd one”. I paid $405 OTD for it in somewhat rough, actually just really filthy, condition. It is fine mechanically it just was not at all cared for. The seller of the other one told me he did eventually get his price ($600). This past weekend I bought a second, very good condition, 9mm Speed Six for $432 total from a quick/high turnover Gun Show dealer. It is in very good, maybe excellent condition and came with a few 1/3, ½, and full moon clips. So now I have two, both purchased locally in less than a year and both in the low $400 range. If this (admittedly limited) sampling was all I knew, I would surmise that they are in fact plentiful, and fairly priced to boot! Now to be honest I did spend my first 51 years on this Earth without seeing even one and may spend the rest of my days without seeing another one for sale. But in the meantime, I have two of my very own. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I hate you.

 

[Meeko]

NICE!!! I wish Ruger would make the GP 100 in 9X23mm with moon clips then you could run 9X23, 9mm and 38 Super all in one. I've suggested that they do a convertable GP 100 like the Blackhawk on the ask the CEO link but nothing. Still hoping

 

[Timber Wolf]

forget about the 9mm Speed Six; you can't find a nice one under $600.

An internet search would certainly lead one to think that. I had been sort of keeping my eyes open for one for a while and several months back had given up haggling on one listed locally for private sale at $600 when I happened upon one at a local pawn shop. When I asked to see it the girl behind the counter said, “oh yeah, that is that odd one”. I paid $405 OTD for it in somewhat rough, actually just really filthy, condition. It is fine mechanically it just was not at all cared for. The seller of the other one told me he did eventually get his price ($600). This past weekend I bought a second, very good condition, 9mm Speed Six for $432 total from a quick/high turnover Gun Show dealer. It is in very good, maybe excellent condition and came with a few 1/3, ½, and full moon clips. So now I have two, both purchased locally in less than a year and both in the low $400 range. If this (admittedly limited) sampling was all I knew, I would surmise that they are in fact plentiful, and fairly priced to boot! Now to be honest I did spend my first 51 years on this Earth without seeing even one and may spend the rest of my days without seeing another one for sale. But in the meantime, I have two of my very own. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I hate you.

Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful! :mrgreen: Be happy for your brother in (ruger)arms. :wink: