Speed (Combat) reloading

[blume357]

Sorry Yawn, I have to politely disagree... rounds facing forward is better and more practical. I still don't understand why you think you have to turn the gun. But to each there own.

 

[tinman]

When I grasp the new magazine I want that index finger and the bullets facing each other with the base of the mag in contact with the heel of that palm. With a (relatively) minimum amount of practice, inserting the new mag into the weapon can be done very quickly......Lots of good vids on the subject.....Travis Tomasie is one of the best.

Here he is being fast......
https://youtu.be/8d2VdaiIodo


And here he is being crazy fast......
https://youtu.be/Hgdq1FBYTUE


The bottom line is.........practice.

And to "educate your hands" try this: Take an empty gun, several empty magazines and a towel to your favorite TV watching chair/couch.
Sit down and get comfortable, place the towel across your lap, toss the empty mags onto the towel. Now, without looking at the magazines, pick one up, orient it in your hand and insert it into the gun. Drop that mag back onto your lap and repeat the exercise for the entire length of a TV show. You'll be surprised how good you'll get after a couple-a-three sessions. :idea:

 

[Yawn]

Blume... your post a few days ago said that facing AFT was correct. I think you need to reread your previous posts.

For everyone else, i think you need to reread my last post... as you seem to not be understanding what i am saying.

I am not saying that someone cannot do an excellent job with the bullets in the holster facing forward when the top of the mag is pointed down.... but something has to change/twist in direction for the bullets to face the correct direction to insert i to the gun. Why, because something facing forward upside down will face backwards right side up. And since your gun should be facing forward... something has to twist to get them facing the same way. Why go through all of that needlessly?

 

[blume357]

No Yawn,, I either wrote it wrong or you read it wrong.. I said that it appears that the rounds pointing aft is the best way but in reality it is not.... I would agree with you that aft is best except that the folks that created the training I've taken who are smarter than me have taught me that the rounds facing forward is better.

Tactical reload: which would include pocketing the magazine you remove less than 5 seconds...
Emergency reload: having run the gun dry and slide is locked back... less than 3.

 

[s4s4u]

I am not saying that someone cannot do an excellent job with the bullets in the holster facing forward when the top of the mag is pointed down.... but something has to change/twist in direction for the bullets to face the correct direction to insert i to the gun. Why, because something facing forward upside down will face backwards right side up. And since your gun should be facing forward... something has to twist to get them facing the same way. Why go through all of that needlessly?

Nothing has to twist with bullets facing forward. I don't follow your logic at all. With bullets facing forward and the magazine is upsidedown all that is required is to rotate your hand 180 degrees counterclockwise, for a right handed shooter, to orient the magazine into the magwell. There is more work involved with bullets facing aft.

 

[Yawn]

I am not saying that someone cannot do an excellent job with the bullets in the holster facing forward when the top of the mag is pointed down.... but something has to change/twist in direction for the bullets to face the correct direction to insert i to the gun. Why, because something facing forward upside down will face backwards right side up. And since your gun should be facing forward... something has to twist to get them facing the same way. Why go through all of that needlessly?

Nothing has to twist with bullets facing forward. I don't follow your logic at all. With bullets facing forward and the magazine is upsidedown all that is required is to rotate your hand 180 degrees counterclockwise, for a right handed shooter, to orient the magazine into the magwell. There is more work involved with bullets facing aft.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but twisting your hand and rotating your hand 180 degrees is pretty much the same thing. I am not saying that this is an awful thing, but there is no need to rotate or twist the hand to adjust tthe oritentstion of the bullets when they are upside down facing aft. Your hand doesnt have to move at all in any secondsry motion different from the arm..., just a clean arm arch forward from upside down to right side up, now presenting the bulkets facing forward.

Blume, you said “ if you imagine this, then the spare magazine should have it rounds facing aft would be the most practical, but for some reason i know im wrong...” i didnt read that wrong. You admitted that aft would be most practical.. I assume that you said this for the same reasons that I have been saying that it is. You did then say that it was “wrong”, but you insinutated that you didnt truly know why. In your last post, your reason that aft was wrong was they told you to do it the other way. I get your trust of them and respect it... but i think the original purpose of this thread was to ask why? Why do you do you do it that way? They told you too... again totally respect that why. we would love to know why they told you that.

In fact, no one has yet said why facing forward is actually better... but they sure have passionately defended it.

 

[blume357]

Yawn, You should work for either the government or the lame stream media.... take what someone says and cut the last part out and use it 'out of context"... you quote me but then leave the next sentence or two out where I point out that what I just 'imagined' is wrong. I give up...

Once again, my only 'defense' of rounds facing forward is a lot of folks, professional instructors who are smarter and better and faster shooters than me say do it this way.

 

[GunnyGene]

In fact, no one has yet said why facing forward is actually better... but they sure have passionately defended it.

Actually, someone has - Me, in the original post in this thread.

"I've tried both, and don't notice much difference, just seems more natural to me with bullets forward."

To explain: "More natural", means easier and faster with less chance of fumbling it. Ie, better for me. You like bullets aft, obviously for the same reasons others like bullets forward. No problem. Personal preference.

 

[s4s4u]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but twisting your hand and rotating your hand 180 degrees is pretty much the same thing. I am not saying that this is an awful thing, but there is no need to rotate or twist the hand to adjust tthe oritentstion of the bullets when they are upside down facing aft. Your hand doesnt have to move at all in any secondsry motion different from the arm..., just a clean arm arch forward from upside down to right side up, now presenting the bulkets facing forward.

Sorry, but going from upside down to right side up requires rotation of some kind. Whether forward or sideways it requires rotation. There is no "twist", and there is no need to point the gun at yourself with bullets forward. You like your way and I like mine. I have tried your's and it isn't any more efficient and quite awkward actually. Bullets pointing aft requires twisting the wrist to grasp the magazine, whereas forward doesn't. Different strokes......

 

[Yawn]

Yawn, You should work for either the government or the lame stream media.... take what someone says and cut the last part out and use it 'out of context"... you quote me but then leave the next sentence or two out where I point out that what I just 'imagined' is wrong. I give up...

Once again, my only 'defense' of rounds facing forward is a lot of folks, professional instructors who are smarter and better and faster shooters than me say do it this way.

Wow... i thoight no bashing allowed. Yoir “kindness” aside... i did nothing of the sort. Twice above in my statement do i acknowlegde that you said you were wrong in what you imagined. In fact the entire second half of the paragraph is about that specific fact. I didnt cut anything out, and fully addressed what you were saying, and i address it. My comment was... well, it is there to be read again. I will leave it as is.

I also acknowledged yoir reasoning of that was how smart people told you to do it. I am just wondering if they told you why to do it that way and if you would like to share.

 

[Yawn]

In fact, no one has yet said why facing forward is actually better... but they sure have passionately defended it.

Actually, someone has - Me, in the original post in this thread.

"I've tried both, and don't notice much difference, just seems more natural to me with bullets forward."

To explain: "More natural", means easier and faster with less chance of fumbling it. Ie, better for me. You like bullets aft, obviously for the same reasons others like bullets forward. No problem. Personal preference.

Exactly... you said it is more natural to you.... the phrase above, “didnt notice much of a difference” lends to the idea that this “more natruralness” is not a significant difference. And now you are saying that more natural to you further means easier and faster for you with less chance of fumbling it. I would say easier and faster for you with less chance of fumbling may not fit into the category of not much difference... that sounds decently significant.

But in the end, you return to your main point of pretty much small personal preference, and that one isnt really “better” than the other, other than personal prefference. Great! But Others have stopped just short of saying right and wrong. I want to know why they are making such a strong claim? Since you didnt espouse the notion of one way being better (other than personal preference) you are not among the people that I am addrssing with my comment of tell me why forward is better... (or as Blume stated and wrongly blamed me (and associated me with some bad company) for editting out) why aft is wrong.

 

[Yawn]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but twisting your hand and rotating your hand 180 degrees is pretty much the same thing. I am not saying that this is an awful thing, but there is no need to rotate or twist the hand to adjust tthe oritentstion of the bullets when they are upside down facing aft. Your hand doesnt have to move at all in any secondsry motion different from the arm..., just a clean arm arch forward from upside down to right side up, now presenting the bulkets facing forward.

Sorry, but going from upside down to right side up requires rotation of some kind. Whether forward or sideways it requires rotation. There is no "twist", and there is no need to point the gun at yourself with bullets forward. You like your way and I like mine. I have tried your's and it isn't any more efficient and quite awkward actually. Bullets pointing aft requires twisting the wrist to grasp the magazine, whereas forward doesn't. Different strokes......

Before i dive into that though... notice how your initial set of comments about movement specifically adrress movement of the hand, but now you leave out any specific designation about hand movement in your descirption, other when you wrongly speak of needing to twist the hand when the bullets are aft. I foudn that funny because my point from the very beginning has been bullets aft is what allows the hand to NOT have to move at all.

yes, Some type of body rotation has to happen... the wuestion is whether any hand movement, rotation, twisting, etc has to happen. with bullets facing down and aft, no rotation, twist, and/or movement of the hand has to take place. Thumb forward, fingers aft, palm facing in (the way most people walk and the way most people draw their gun) the hand is already in position with the mag to have the full arm sweep up and meet the mag well in one motion. If you made the same motion with the bullets forward and down, the bullets would come up facing you... so i joked that i would not want the gun to have to face me to inert the mag. So, to make sure that the bullets dont face you in that scenario, you would have to twist (or i will use your word, rotate) the hand, twist or rotate the gun, or initialy grab the mag palm out... which is not how anyone grabs the gun on the other side of their hip... nor is it how their hand naturally rests. So you would have to twist to get your hand into position onto the mag and then twist back to reorient the mag. Why do that?

Look, I Am perfectly fine with someone wantign to train themselves to do it this way. But when people start calling one way wrong (or awkward) and one way right, I would like to know why? Again, i repsect Blumes smart people told me. But smart peple told Mike the other way. So now, i guess we can just listen to our own smart people... or we can find out their reasoning and decide for ourselves... whcih is what I am trying to do. Especially when doing it the way I was speaking of reqires less overall movement. Sidenote: grabbing the mag palm in, mag down and bullets aft also allows for my index finger to easily meet the front of the first round.

 

[GunnyGene]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but twisting your hand and rotating your hand 180 degrees is pretty much the same thing. I am not saying that this is an awful thing, but there is no need to rotate or twist the hand to adjust tthe oritentstion of the bullets when they are upside down facing aft. Your hand doesnt have to move at all in any secondsry motion different from the arm..., just a clean arm arch forward from upside down to right side up, now presenting the bulkets facing forward.

Sorry, but going from upside down to right side up requires rotation of some kind. Whether forward or sideways it requires rotation. There is no "twist", and there is no need to point the gun at yourself with bullets forward. You like your way and I like mine. I have tried your's and it isn't any more efficient and quite awkward actually. Bullets pointing aft requires twisting the wrist to grasp the magazine, whereas forward doesn't. Different strokes......

Before i dive into that though... notice how your initial set of comments about movement specifically adrress movement of the hand, but now you leave out any specific designation about hand movement in your descirption, other when you wrongly speak of needing to twist the hand when the bullets are aft. I foudn that funny because my point from the very beginning has been bullets aft is what allows the hand to NOT have to move at all.

yes, Some type of body rotation has to happen... the wuestion is whether any hand movement, rotation, twisting, etc has to happen. with bullets facing down and aft, no rotation, twist, and/or movement of the hand has to take place. Thumb forward, fingers aft, palm facing in (the way most people walk and the way most people draw their gun) the hand is already in position with the mag to have the full arm sweep up and meet the mag well in one motion. If you made the same motion with the bullets forward and down, the bullets would come up facing you... so i joked that i would not want the gun to have to face me to inert the mag. So, to make sure that the bullets dont face you in that scenario, you would have to twist (or i will use your word, rotate) the hand, twist or rotate the gun, or initialy grab the mag palm out... which is not how anyone grabs the gun on the other side of their hip... nor is it how their hand naturally rests. So you would have to twist to get your hand into position onto the mag and then twist back to reorient the mag. Why do that?

Look, I Am perfectly fine with someone wantign to train themselves to do it this way. But when people start calling one way wrong (or awkward) and one way right, I would like to know why? Again, i repsect Blumes smart people told me. But smart peple told Mike the other way. So now, i guess we can just listen to our own smart people... or we can find out their reasoning and decide for ourselves... whcih is what I am trying to do. Especially when doing it the way I was speaking of reqires less overall movement. Sidenote: grabbing the mag palm in, mag down and bullets aft also allows for my index finger to easily meet the front of the first round.

Somebody needs to make a video demonstrating both methods in slow motion. Words ain't doing it, and I suspect are causing more confusion than explanations. I haven't seen any videos on youtube that show a bullets aft method, so a side by side comparison hasn't been possible. I think it would be helpful.

 

[SR1911SHOOTER]

Forward to Gunney,
17 rounds, facing forward. Magazine in my 1911 Hi Cap. No problem.
If I need 17, I need backup!
Blackie

 

[GunnyGene]

Forward to Gunney,
17 rounds, facing forward. Magazine in my 1911 Hi Cap. No problem.
If I need 17, I need backup!
Blackie

I agree. Have to be a lot of zombies before I'd carry a couple extra mags regularly, but you never know, which is why I practice occasionally. :wink:

This is how I do this, other folks will obviously do it differently 11min video by Shannon Smith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfIaMB1TvLI&t=18s

 

[blume357]

Yawn, sorry did not mean to bash and I apologize if I came across that way.... this is just a simple debate that is really not very important, I'd only add that how ever you do it do it consistently.

As for carrying an extra magazine.... I think the main reason to is not so much needing that much ammo but in case you have a malfunction....