A little over a year ago I purchased a new 10/22 for use in rimfire speed steel matches. I replaced the trigger group with a VQ and added FO sights and started racing. With ammo availability having been what it has I’ve been using what I could get. I have found that the only reliable ammo for this gun is CCI mini mags. I’ve read a number of forum posts and determined this isn’t too uncommon. I’ve tried Eley blue box Team, Aquila Super Extra, Remington Golden Bullets, Federal Auto Match, CCI SV and CCI mini mags. All that will run is the mini mag. I have friends whose 10/22 will run any and all of this ammo from the same box. I decided something must be wrong with the gun. I chamfered the bolt, replaced the extractor with a and replaced the guide rod assembly with VQ parts. Cleaned and tested between each change. I’ve also tried two different 10-shot and 2 different 25 shot mags. Same thing. I decided to try to see if I could tell what is going on so I tried close observation as I slowly cycled ammo thru the gun. On all mags and a variety of ammo brands they all hit the metal protrusion on the top of the magazine and are loosed from the ejector prior to reaching the ejector. If I chamber a round and remove the magazine the cartridge rides the bolt all the way to the ejector. Is this a good test? My theory is that the CCI mini mags have enough gusto to overcome this premature contact and have enough bolt velocity to eject the case. Even with the CCI’s being fired ejection is erratic. Some really fly while many just dribble out of the gun. Has anyone determined this is a real problem or am I off in the weeds?
Sorry - Another Stovepipe Topic
- Thread starter dkizer
- Start date
FiremanBob
Bearcat
If you are having FTEs, it is a real problem. The trick is diagnosing it.
The primary ejector is on the left-side magazine feed lip. The ejector on the trigger group ejects the round if there is no magazine in place. So those are working properly and there is no "premature contact". In fact, when the case kicks out from the primary ejector, while the bolt is still moving rearward, it has more time to clear the ejection port for more reliable ejection.
If the extractor is holding the round in place all the way back with the mag removed, that is also working correctly.
Typically, the cause of stovepipes is the bolt short-stroking due to excess friction or a too-strong bolt spring. You upgraded the guide rod so that probably isn't it. Have you polished the inside of the receiver?
One other idea, which you probably won't like, but I find it often among Appleseed beginners. If you aren't holding the rifle solidly into your shoulder, it will move back under recoil - even the slight recoil of .22LR. If the rifle is moving backward, the breech face of the barrel hits the empty case before it can be thrown clear of the receiver. It doesn't take much movement to cause this symptom.
The primary ejector is on the left-side magazine feed lip. The ejector on the trigger group ejects the round if there is no magazine in place. So those are working properly and there is no "premature contact". In fact, when the case kicks out from the primary ejector, while the bolt is still moving rearward, it has more time to clear the ejection port for more reliable ejection.
If the extractor is holding the round in place all the way back with the mag removed, that is also working correctly.
Typically, the cause of stovepipes is the bolt short-stroking due to excess friction or a too-strong bolt spring. You upgraded the guide rod so that probably isn't it. Have you polished the inside of the receiver?
One other idea, which you probably won't like, but I find it often among Appleseed beginners. If you aren't holding the rifle solidly into your shoulder, it will move back under recoil - even the slight recoil of .22LR. If the rifle is moving backward, the breech face of the barrel hits the empty case before it can be thrown clear of the receiver. It doesn't take much movement to cause this symptom.
Thanks for the insight. I have only polished the inside top of the receiver. It, like the sides, was rough from the factory. I polished the bolt as well. I have not done any "improvement" to the sides. No offense on the form suggestion I'll watch for that. My dad did tell me to hold a gun in tight to my shoulder when he was training me to shoot his remington. I just thought he wanted me to drop it.
Precision32
Blackhawk
I fix stove pipe jam issues 99% of the time by fitting the extractor to the bolt. The extractor has to hold the spent case tight to the bolt face during the recoil cycle. When you put a case under the extractor hook, the hook should cam out 0.010" to 0.015" as the rim goes under the hook.
If you don't get the proper amount of cam out, take a small flat file and remove material as shown by the red wedge in the above photo.
If you don't get the proper amount of cam out, take a small flat file and remove material as shown by the red wedge in the above photo.
my money is on 'pre 32' suggestion above, you MUST "fit" an extractor to the bolt, as well as the slot (divot) the extractor goes into at 3 0'clock in the barrel..................the 'hook' ( nose) of the extractor has to be able to keep the case rim firmly held,all the way back to the ejector.........
Thanks to everyone for all the information. I replaced the hammer spring assembly in the VQ TG with the O.E.M. based on a suggestion to my post on another forum. That did the trick. I knew immediately there was much less resistance when I cycled the bolt. It's really slick now. I ran the SV's that were so problematic and a variety of other ammo without a malfunction (til I got to the Federal Auto Match). Thanks again! I'm off to the races
FiremanBob
Bearcat
Glad you found the problem. I had not thought the hammer strut would be an issue because you bought a complete VQ trigger group. One would expect that to be ready to rock out of the box.
I find it hard to imagine that the hammer strut or spring would be bad. More often it's an issue of improper installation of the strut in the trigger group housing that makes it bind on the hammer. I wonder if your strut would work ok in the OEM trigger group.
I find it hard to imagine that the hammer strut or spring would be bad. More often it's an issue of improper installation of the strut in the trigger group housing that makes it bind on the hammer. I wonder if your strut would work ok in the OEM trigger group.
FiremanBob said:
I think it was a matter of spring weight. It didn't seem to bind but the VQ is much stiffer. The CCI mini mags had enough gusto to cycle the action against the stiffer VQ spring and were consistent enough to be reliable. I think the other HV ammo I had trouble with probably had some weak rounds that would cause the same issues as the SV. This is my theory anyway.
FiremanBob
Bearcat
Of course, it's hard to tell over the interwebz - if we could look at it together we'd figure it out pretty fast. I have one 10/22 with the VQ hammer and spring and it has never given a lick of trouble.
Mine worked flawlessly till I installed a recoil buffer and then I had occasional fte. The empty would get caught between the bolt and receiver. Seeing as how I been down the road with recoil buffer and AK I knew what the problem was.
Take the buffer out and all is well.
Take the buffer out and all is well.
Precision32
Blackhawk
Long before the bolt recoils enough to hit the bolt stop the empty case is long gone from the action.
