Soot, Soot, Soot

[opos]

Just a quick question...fairly new to reloading with cast boolits. I loaded up a "test set" of .45 Colt using a Missouri #4 cowboy action 200 grain projectile with a hardness of about 12....have one lube groove with a blue lube. Loaded over Trail Boss in varying loads from the IMR suggested low of 5.5 grains to their upper limit of 6.5 grains. Very accurate with almost non existant recoil...no leading in the barrel at all...really enjoyable for an old duffer like me...used a moderate roll crimp and used a cci large pistol primer in mixed once fired brass. Didn't shoot these in the Ruger...used the Pietta single action SAA clone...nice and tight and accurage revolver..

Everything was perfect except the amount of soot..I've reloaded quite a bit of jacketed rounds in the .45 and .44 special as well as 38/357...I can get sooting with light loads in those using HP38 and some other powders, etc but the sooting with the Trail boss was pretty severe...realizing these are "cowboy action loads" it may be that the cases are not expanding because of the lower pressures and might not be a problem with higher hardness and higher velocities. The gun was not leaded but was pretty sooty...cleans up easilly but wondered if anyone had some input if I might be doing someting wrong here...

Any thoughts or similar cases? Many thanks

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[DeletedMember275]

I think you're correct about the low-pressure Cowboy loads being the cause. Not a lot you can do about it except bump up the powder charge.

 

[led]

Completely normal with Trail Boss and low power loads. Get use to it or up the power.

Later,
Stephen

 

[Tellico]

I did not get that much soot on the case heads with about the same load. Some may be due to different lube. You can go up a tad above 6.5gr but the acc. may be better or worse. Depends on your gun. Don't tell anyone but I have been all the way to 9gr T Boss with 200 gr. SWC's but my best was acc. was at 6.5. Using the formula from the Manuf. shown here.
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf I get 9gr as max. It is still a moderate load. My results here.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=149736

 

[opos]

I did not get that much soot on the case heads with about the same load. Some may be due to different lube. You can go up a tad above 6.5gr but the acc. may be better or worse. Depends on your gun. Don't tell anyone but I have been all the way to 9gr T Boss with 200 gr. SWC's but my best was acc. was at 6.5. Using the formula from the Manuf. shown here.
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf I get 9gr as max. It is still a moderate load. My results here.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=149736

I'd seen your post about the loading you did....kind of used it for a range to do my loading...I looked at the mfg "70% load formula" and was surprised at the difference between what that shows and what they recommend as actual min/max loads....I've loaded Unique from time to time and with that I usually suspect some sooty cases but this really surprised me....I also had played with some crimps (some more than others) and it didn't seem to matter one way or the other....I'll up things very slightly and see what the outcome is and also shoot some in the Blackhawk and see if there is any difference there....None of this sooting is more than just something to clean up so no biggie...I was just wondering as I'd seen some posts somewhere that Trail Boss was fairly clean burning and this sort of surprised me...at any rate...the accuracy and the overall experience of pop gun recoil was really enjoyable. When I shoot the Blackhawk with Nosler's suggested max loads of W231 and Nosler 250's in it I can't write my name for a couple of days...really bad arthritis....thanks to all...guess I'll just have some cases to clean...
opos

 

[Tellico]

As a comparison, I shoot 5.5 in .45 ACP with 200SWC's and it is very clean and acc. Given the case capacity difference, 6.7-7.0gr in .45 Colt should be as clean? But things don't always work out that way in reloading. :lol:

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Your soot is powder residue only? No lube mixed in (tacky, waxy feeling), right?

Lighter charges of a faster powder (Red Dot, Bullseye, Titegroup) might help with sealing the chamber. You get a quick pressure spike that falls off rapidly. That might give you the seal even with a smaller charge. I've seen mild loads of Titegroup in 44 Mag revolvers not get too dirty. Maybe that's why.

 

[opos]

Your soot is powder residue only? No lube mixed in (tacky, waxy feeling), right?

Lighter charges of a faster powder (Red Dot, Bullseye, Titegroup) might help with sealing the chamber. You get a quick pressure spike that falls off rapidly. That might give you the seal even with a smaller charge. I've seen mild loads of Titegroup in 44 Mag revolvers not get too dirty. Maybe that's why.

There is some residue that isn't just soot...looks sooty but is either burned on or sort of caked on...I'm guessing some of it is lube as well as burned on powder soot...can't change the lube as I have about 1000 of these to use up....as I said it's no biggie...just surprised me a bit....one of the reasons I'm trying Tight Group is that I don't like big cases with light charge hotter powders...I've heard Universal is similar to Unique but not quite as dirty...I might borrow some from a buddy and give that a try too.

 

[Hammerdown77]

You're just getting a lot of blowback it appears. I'll bet the chambers on that Pietta are on the larger side of the spec.

It's a hassle, but you could try just neck sizing those fired cases to see if that helps. Since they are fire formed to your chambers, they'll seal up better. You'll need a universal decapper die to decap without sizing, then size just the neck with your regular sizing die.

Again, something to try just to see if there's an improvement, but I wouldn't want to do that for a whole bunch of them. I wouldn't worry about it. Shoot real black powder and then come back and complain about soot!

 

[DGW1949]

The 45LC is famous for blow by when using low power/low pressure loads.
Simply put, the lighter the load, the more blow by you're going to see.

I'd suggest a heavier bullet and a firmer crimp for starters. Whatever you do with the powder charge should be dictated by a reputable loading manual, but don't be surprized that in the end, you'll end up with a load that perty-much duplicates factory ballistics for a non "ruger only" load....meaning some combination of componants that safely launches a 250ish bullet at about 850 FPS.

DGW

 

[opos]

The 45LC is famous for blow by when using low power/low pressure loads.
Simply put, the lighter the load, the more blow by you're going to see.

I'd suggest a heavier bullet and a firmer crimp for starters. Whatever you do with the powder charge should be dictated by a reputable loading manual, but don't be surprized that in the end, you'll end up with a load that perty-much duplicates factory ballistics for a non "ruger only" load....meaning some combination of componants that safely launches a 250ish bullet at about 850 FPS.

DGW

Figured that was much of the problem...sort of like one time I loaded some 38 specials way down (still within spec of a couple of manuals) with HP38....one cylinder full and the cylinder locked up (my GP100 has a very tight cylinder gap) and I had to clean things up before it would shoot again.....the "start load" in the manuals was something l like 4 grains of hp38 and the load that turned out to be acceptable was just shy of 5.5 grains and that was not really hot for the bullet...the soot on the straight case 45's is very much like the conditions on the straight case 38's back then....Frankly the light and very accurate load in the 45 Colt with Trail Boss and 200 grain softer boolits is probably worth the cleaning I'll need to do on the gun (not that bad and no leading at all) and the case cleaning is pretty much automatic as part of my make ready so not a big deal....

Many thanks to everyone that posted and had comments....one thing....I shoot a lot of Ruger single actions in various calibers and had bought this SAA clone Pietta on sort of a lark...way too cheap and looked pretty good....it's amazing how accurate the darn thing is....I couldn't believe it....really fun to shoot and with sissy loads it's a blast...I'd never load it hot or anything beyond the SAMMI specs for the "non Ruger" data....I'd heard they were surprisingly accurate and I'm a believer now..

Again, thanks
opos

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[Tommy Kelly]

My son has a Uberti that a friend gave him. It is a awesome shooting little gun. I have kicked my butt a hundred times for not buying one years ago when Cabellas started selling them. I'm wanting to say they cost like $69.00 when I first saw them. Buy me being a dummy I passed them up now there close to $400.00 and I still haven't gotten one. Butt I have several 45 colt rugers and load for them on the hot side so I don't want to have to seperate ammo for a uberti so I will not get one for that reason. I guess I could use that for a excuse to buy factory loads to gain brass for my other 45's after they are shot in the uberti. Theres always a reason to get another gun if you put your mind to it.