something odd with primers

[volshooter]

Tried a batch of 9mm I loaded last year. Primers are CCI. I had better than 75% failure to fire rate! After several minutes I put each failure to fire back into the chamber and got 100%. Same thing with two pistols, so I looked at the primers compared to factory. My primers were not set as deep as normal. Checking data says that I used a Lee hand primer, as usual. I suspect the primers not being seated deep caused the problem.
I am going to reseat a box of theses loads and try them.
Normally I seat my primers just below the cartridge face. Is it possible that the primers not being seated to bottom of primer pocket allow the primer to move forward under firing pin hit? All first failure to fire primers had much smaller firing pin hits.
Any thoughts? Really hate to pull 6 boxes. BTW at 30 feet a 1.5 inch group from a subcompact Springfield was normal. Defense load, 124gr. JHP over 5.9 Unique...... don't mean scrap if they are not reliable.

 

[WIL TERRY]

WHAT you surmise is exactly what happened. Firing pins make exceedingly poor seating tools by'n'large.

And so it goes...

 

[volshooter]

Still sitting here feeling spent and unfired primers with my hand. All the spent primers are deeper, not much but enough for me to feel with my finger. I have used too much pressure seating primers before but never not enough. My head is still buzzing as to why.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Yes, the primer should be fully seated in the cases primer pocket.Or the energy that normally would fire the primer is used up fully seating the primer. Primers that fail to fire in that way almost always fire on the second strike .

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Primers should be fully seated slightly below level with the case head, if not you may get FTF's. Be careful seating primers on loaded rounds. See recent thread about just this thing. When I do a block of cases, seating primers, I always look from the side to make sure they are all below flush before putting the powder in.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=232958

 

[volshooter]

I reset one box with a RCBS primer seater, adjusted with a factory round. Noticeable difference for sure. The failure to fire rounds all had rounded edges in the pocket. It is strange for me as all primers are usually seated till slightly flatened filling the primer pocket. I batch process in stages and I'm thinking when those rounds were primed I was hurrying due to volume. I like the LEE primer tool, it is by feel. If the reset primers on the next box fire I will discontinue using the LEE and go back to single seating.
Perhaps I was feeling weak or distracted. I will find out tomorrow weather permitting.
Checked my 1974 Speer manual, ya'll are correct. I know better, still bum-fuzzled how it happened.
Sure hope this is the answer cause I have another 1000 rounds to load.
As a long time reloader, it goes to show even we make mistakes.......if this fixes it.
Did get a bad batch of Federal large rifle primers back int the late 70's, they made it right.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

The Lee primer tool requires two thumbs sometimes.

 

[DeletedMember275]

I've been reloading for for 39 years, and I recently encountered my first group of 'high' primers with my ammo. I was using a new-to-me Hornady hand priming tool (which I seriously dislike) when I loaded this ammo. The cylinder on my Blackhawk wouldn't turn on those rounds, which was mildly distressing. The paper targets that I was shooting at didn't mind, but that could have had more serious repercussions under different circumstances!

Guess I'd best pay more attention in the future, and stop using the Hornady priming tool.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Quick question: do you clean the primer pockets each time you load the cases, Rick?

I used to just reprime, especially with pistol ammo, and on occasion experienced this same problem. Not often, but enough that I did start cleaning the pockets each time with the simple little Lee tool. One quick swipe and a lot of crud shows up. And since then, I haven't had the "click-recock-bang" problem that I can remember. I figured what was happening in my case was I thought I was seating the primer nicely, but was doing so on a base of carbon that didn't support it well enough to fire on the first hit...

Dunno if it makes any difference: most of my priming is done with the Lee hand tool, though I do dig out the ram prime tool for more of my rifle cartridges these days, and both methods work fine.

Rick C

 

[sandman228]

this is why I stopped using a hand primer for 9mm reloads .I bought an rcbs bench mounted priming tool I use it mostly for 9mm and my 35 marlin haven't had any trouble since I switched . I have 2 rcbs hand primers that work fine for all other calibers I loads for

 

[Kevin]

I use a RCBS Universal hand priming tool. I have noticed when I do not clean a primer pocket, sometimes it is difficult to seat the primer. Not difficult, but it does require more force to seat fully. When I clean the primer pocket they do go in much easier and to the proper depth.

But there are also differences with brass. Some brands, like S&B brass in .357. They have what seems like "tight" primer pockets. Very stiff sometimes to seat a primer. Others, like federal in .327 are somewhat loose, and easier to seat.

But, I do really like the RCBS hand priming tool. It is very easy to get consistent seating depth.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I use the old style RCBS hand primer tool that uses their shell holders and has a round primer tray. I don't think they make it anymore. It works great.

 

[volshooter]

I deprime, polish and clean primer pocket and flash hole before any reloading happens. Didn't get the chance today to try the reseated rounds. I really like the lee primer. I do use two thumbs occasionally. I confess I tend to overseat most primers. I don't have the data on when these cases were primed. Another thought was that I might have mixed up small rifle primers with pistol primers. I cannot imagine that happened as I keep my rifle primers in a seperate room, with the press, powders and dies.
If the rain lets up I will try the reseted rounds.
I have always been worried about overseating primers. 99.9% of mine are flattened, filling the primer pocket. Worked with my hands all my life. I cannot drink a aluminun can beverage without damage to the can from the grip.

 

[ppodpearson]

I'm a slow reloader. After I seat the primer with my hand primer, I set the primed case on a clean hard surface. If the primer is not seated deep enough, the case will rock. Started doing this in my teens, and it still works 50 years later.

 

[volshooter]

All of theses were below the cartridge face. Not as deep as factory though.

 

[mikld]

Forget "below flush measurements". Just seat the primers all the way to the bottom of the pocket. Push the primer into the pocket and when it stops moving, give the lever a few more ounces of pressure just to make sure. Using this method for mebbe 30 years and in all that time I've only had one instance where it didn't work for me. The combination was a new striker fired 9mm and Winchester small pistol primers. I was getting 10%-15% misfires with this combo (same ammo worked in other guns). Visual inspections of firing pin indention show no "light" strikes. Removed bolt, cleaned firing pin and channel, still got 10% failures. Read something about "sensitizing" primers way back so I seated the primer, then gave it a good "ummmff" to "pre-load" the primer. Worked. Now get 100% firing...

I haven't found a hand priming tool I like (tried 3 different makes) and determined a ram prime give the best feel, least problems, and is much less tiresome. Not one misfire seating primers with a ram prime in 20+ years...

 

[volshooter]

Wow! Last post hit home. Re- seated rounds were 100% in one pistol, less than 75% in my favorite carry. My "church carry" is a striker fired Springfield XD9 subcompact. Some research later, I am not feeling as fond of the XD as before. Thing shoots exceptionally well and carries great. I'm very concerned about the striker firing aspect.
I suspect some lube has gotten into the no lube area and collected dust/gunk. All cleaned now but confidence is off for sure. Once cleaned it was 100%. Perhaps the Springfield is to tender for my lifestyle. I'm not sure what happens from here for the XD. Drug out a 1911 out of the safe and put the cleaned XD back in the original box and into the safe.
Gun show coming up. Might trade the once go-to XD. Until this primer issue, I loved that weapon. It's weakness is unacceptable.

 

[Precision32]

Long ago I got into the habit of running my finger tip over the base/primer, feeling for the primer to be below the base of the cartridge when I remove the case from the priming tool. I can't remember having a reload not go "bang" every time.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Yup! :wink:

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I do exactly the same as Precision32 and never have a problem. You can feel the primer bottom out in the pocket with a firm press on the tools handle and I run my finger over the base also. That has become habit after many years of reloading. I began reloading by helping my dad reload .244 Remington shells in 1955. Old habits stick with you .

 

[mikld]

Nuttin' wrong with running a fingernail across the primer after it's seated. Just don't rely on that "measurement/gauge" to determine if primers are completely seated... :lol:

 

[Precision32]

Nuttin' wrong with running a fingernail across the primer after it's seated. Just don't rely on that "measurement/gauge" to determine if primers are completely seated... :lol:

Why not? I've been doing it for 35 years now and never had an issue.

 

[volshooter]

Well as far as the XD, I looked in the original packaging and found a factory fired case. Looking closely I noticed that case had a slight "skid" mark at the primer. Same thing is apparent on the cases I am wanting to use. My conclusion is that the XD is not hitting the primer unhindered. Something about the firing pin not having a clear path to primer. It will be examined by a gunsmith and most likely sent back to factory.
If I cannot count on it to be 100%, I won't/don't need it.
Ran two boxes of same rounds through a cheap Taurus PT 92 with outstanding groups, 100% on rapid fire and no failures of any kind.
The skid mark is a slight off center hit gouge going toward the primer. Most are visible to the eye with occasional very small indentations.
Going to see my gunsmith/dealer Saturday. I'll put it in his hands.
Not a Ruger but until now a very fine pistol.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

That mark is the case and primer being dragged across the striker as the gun cycles. Very common.

 

[volshooter]

just thanked you on another post for same thing. Thanks again!

 

[johndm1967]

" Another thought was that I might have mixed up small rifle primers with pistol primers. "
Several brands of primers, the Small Rifle primer is the same as Small Pistol Magnum primer.
CCI 400 SRP and CCI 550 SPP Magnum are the same primer (per CCI Technician) and can be used interchangeably.
Have fired many a .357 Magnum loaded with CCI 400 small rifle primers.

 

[mikld]

Nuttin' wrong with running a fingernail across the primer after it's seated. Just don't rely on that "measurement/gauge" to determine if primers are completely seated... :lol:

Why not? I've been doing it for 35 years now and never had an issue.

As I stated "Nuttin wrong". But the only thing that it will tell you is if there isn't anything to feel sticking up outta the pocket. I can tell how a primer is seated from 4.25' eyeballing it under indirect light, after 3 cups of coffee in my unheated shop on a rainy day between 10:00 AM and 4:00 PM, Sundays excluded. Been doing it for nigh onto 28.75 years now and never any issues, and that's my story and I be stickin' to it...

 

[The Preacher]

I'm a slow reloader. After I seat the primer with my hand primer, I set the primed case on a clean hard surface. If the primer is not seated deep enough, the case will rock. Started doing this in my teens, and it still works 50 years later.

Same here! Every case gets set on a hard flat surface to check that the primer is seated deep enough. Guess we're "old school" ppodpearson.

The Preacher

 

[volshooter]

Got to shoot the striker fired Springfield today, after a good cleaning. 100% with factory ammo and not so good with reloads. Had two out 50 that FTF. Primer hits looked good and both fired the second time. I have run many of these same loads through other 9mm's without a single hitch. Could the striker fire not be hitting as hard?
For now the Springfield is factory ammo only.

 

[cadillo]

In addition to the seating depth question, CCI primers have long been known to be the hardest of the hard. Accordingly I load them only in rifles as they render a stouter firing pin blow. Also, Federal primers are in my experience the softest and easiest to ignite, but I don't like them as they are too soft, and sometimes crush or distort when seating in a progressive press.

As much as possible I try to always load handgun ammo with Winchester primers as they work great not only in my guns, but my Dillon press. I once had a couple of cases of Remington small pistol primers, and while they worked OK in the guns, as the primers come out of the box, the anvils were sitting above flush with the primer cups, which made them consistently jam in the Dillon primer systems of my two 550's, and thus more trouble than they were worth.

Just one guy's experience, and worth more than it cost you.