Ruger factory "scrapped" blackhawk?

[das5833]

Hi everyone-
New member, so please bear with me.
I have several questions about a Blackhawk that I have. It's a 16xxx serial number. It has the "rare" (?) 7 &1/2" barrel. Black plastic grip panels.
Here's the question- when I called the record people at Ruger to try to get some info on this piece, I was told that the records showed that the serial number was from June of 1959, and that the revolver had been "scrapped". She could provide no further information, or explanation, of what that meant.
Has anyone else encountered this?
Do I have some kind of a "lunchbucket" gun? And/or did someone try to counterfeit one of the 7 & 1/2" barrelled guns, on top of it?
Is there any other resource out there (besides all of you) that might help me to figure this one out?
Thanks for whatever help you can give-
Dave

 

[contender]

Welcome to the Forum!
First, I'm assuming it's a 44 mag Flattop Blackhawk? Is this correct?
The 7-1/2" Flattop 44's are scarcer than the 6-1/2 ones. It is possible that someone added a longer barrel to it at some time.
Did you ask about the serial number as a 6-1/2" bbl?
But, since they show that number as "scrapped" it does provide a delima.
Put the serial numbe under a serious magnification, and make sure of the number too. If you can post some pics, especially of the serial number, and of the barrel, any markings on the barrel, etc it can help us try & help you.
If you need info on how to post pics, go to the "Gallery" section, at the top is a "sticky" on how to post pics. Follow that.

 

[das5833]

Contender-
It is a Flattop Blackhawk.
I don't think that I asked specifically about it as a 6 & 1/2" bbl. Now that I think about it, I can't remember if she even asked me about the barrel length- I made three inquiries (3 different serial #'s) during the same phone call. I can call back and try to ask about it as a 6 & 1/2", and post their response.
Regarding the "serious" magnification, are you thinking that it is possible that the number has been altered? I'll put some strong light and a magnifying glass on it tonight, and check it out- anything special I should be looking for?
I'll see what I can do about taking and posting some pics, too.
Thanks-

 

[chet15]

das5833, you will also want to check the the small area on the bottom of the cylinder frame in front of the trigger guard for a stamped letter "S". Oftentimes, guns that were returned to the factory for one reason or another were refurbished, returned to stock and then sold again as a new gun, which it was really. I know of two BKH47 like this, neither of which received the "S" marking though I believe both letter as "second". They are serial numbers 10431 and 13289, both mfg. originally with 6-1/2" barrels.
On the scrapped part though, I've only heard of one other gun that lettered as being "scrapped" and should not exist. It is Bearcat serial number 10349S with "S" suffix serial number that was also shipped as a factory second. So it does happen...anything or any process touched that humans are involved with can have can be totally different than what they are supposed to be.
10349S today resides in a pretty big Ruger collection.
Be sure to follow up with us here on RF after you hear confirmation from the factory :)
Chet15

 

[rugerguy]

yes, we've heard of AND seen, "scrapped" guns, that have resurfaced, and one canno,t nor will not ,ever know as that, it is very subjective, they say it was srapped, then by all intents and purposes, it should have been BUT much like police confiscated guns, or any department or government agency, that was to 'destroy' said firearm, guess what,many were NOT , and so this too may have just done that,,,,, "salvaged" ?? saved from the furnace?? who knows or who will admit.yessir another 'anomoly' of manufactruing and human nature of the folks doing it....................

 

[das5833]

Quick Update-
Just got off the phone with Ruger records, and didn't get any real new info. I was told that the 357 Blackhawk, the 44 mag Blackhawk (mine), and the Super Blackhawk all share that serial number. She questioned me as to whether I had a Blackhawk or a Super, and then told me that the Blackhawk was listed as scrapped- never shipped- discarded. She couldn't explain why. She couldn't explain what scrapped really meant. She said that there was no one around from 1959 anymore, and as far as she knew, the factory could have been throwing the "scrapped" parts (?) in the garbage. (I find that hard to believe, myself)
So I'm back where I started, at least with Ruger records.
I'll check the revolver out tonight for serial number under magnification, and look for the "s" stamp, and post again tomorrow

 

[stantheman86]

Sounds like we'll never know. 1959 was quite a few years ago and I imagine many 100's of thousands of guns have been made since then, not to mention a move to a new factory.

Like a lot of production companies, paperwork errors can and do happen. People have been known to get S&W letters for a totally different gun than what they had lettered with the serial number, it's very rare but it happens, a guy with a S&W K22 found in an attic in Maine get's a letter saying it's a M&P shipped to the NYPD....just a mystery of history that no one caught until now... A guy doing the records in 1959 at the Ruger factory, at 4:58pm with his eye on the clock may have transposed a number, mis-entered it into a log book, etc. It would have all been on paper back then, no "computer database" :D ......there could be a corresponding "Phantom Blackhawk" in the books, a serial number to a gun that doesn't exist, if that gun was scrapped and the number listed as "shipped", and your Blackhawk listed as "scrapped" but was inadvertently shipped instead.

 

[americal]

WOW :) You started off good on the forum--I would sure hold on to that gun :!: :!: sounds neat --never know what happens in a factory :)

 

[Coop]

Hi, and welcome to the Ruger Forum.

Yours almost sounds like a "lunchbucket" gun, like you noted in your original post.

Pictures would help, along with a historical purchase trail, if you know who owned the gun before you did, and who owned it before that.

Coop

 

[flatgate]

I know of a "scrapped" OM Bearcat. The s/n is not in Ruger's data base, at least not at the "Phone In" level.

flatgate

 

[gramps]

Welcome to the forum. As you already know if there is to be any help here is where you will get it. I have no info, but find this entertaining.
gramps

 

[hittman]

Welcome to the Forum! Neat story. Like your "scrapped" gun, I too was born in June of 1959 so ....... I don't feel it was all that long ago.

Why can't I ever find a June '59 gun??

 

[radicalrod]

Hey funny story about that 10349 S Bear cat....when I called for the ship date I transposed the numbers and gave the # 10439 S and they gave me a ship date of OCT 1961 and when I gave them the correct number I got DEC 1962......so be on the look out for 10439 S :lol: :lol: :lol: see ya RR.

 

[mic214]

Welcome to the forum.....I would love to see pics of your Blackhawk.... It sounds like a keeper.....:D !

 

[das5833]

Hi all-
I'm surprised at all the interest and grateful for the advice and comments.
Last night didn't work out the way I thought it would, and the old girl never made it out of the safe. I'm going to try again tonight- first to check the serial number under some strong light and magnification, and then to see what I can do with the digital camera. I'll post some photos here as soon as I can.
I'm also going to see the last remaining family member of the guy I bought it from over this coming weekend, and I'll try to find out if there are any purchase records available. Maybe...
Thanks again.

 

[ffkaelb]

I would personally doubt somebody worked on the serial number as that's pretty rare. I would personally figure it's either the friday dyslexia or:

Serial numbers weren't a big deal until around 1965. Guns then were just tools (as they should be) and that gun came in and was scrapped. Someone saw it and figured what the hey I'll take it home.

Course my ideas are only worth what you pay for them...

 

[contender]

Actually when I suggested a close look at the serial number, I was thinking of how often Alpha Bearcats are "mistaken" in their serial number. A close exam MAY reveal a mistake on the number.

 

[jgt]

One other explaination I thought of. It could be the gun was still laying in a bin at the factory. Someone wrecked a gun and sent it to the factory to see if it could be repaired. The scrapped gun was in far better shape than the wrecked gun so it was refurbished-rebuilt-whatever and returned to the owner of the wrecked gun who was happy as a clam.

 

[edlmann]

Serial numbers weren't a big deal until around 1965. Guns then were just tools (as they should be) and that gun came in and was scrapped. Someone saw it and figured what the hey I'll take it home.

Serial numbers were optional on long guns until GCA '68. I've got a couple of shotguns and several .22 rifles with no serial number.

AFAIK, I think they've been mandatory much longer than that for handguns.

 

[das5833]

Hi all-
Quick note to add some clarifications.
The S/N is verified via strong light and magnifying glass. It is stamped very clearly to the naked eye, but I double- checked it anyway. Definitely # 166xx.
There is no "S" stamped on the cylinder frame in front of the trigger guard, or anywhere else that I could find.
I have taken several photos but am not happy with the quality. I'm going to try again tomorrow, and if I can't get anything better than what I have now, I'll post what I've got.
Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Greebe]

Still no pictures? :(

 

[edlmann]

Still no pictures? :(

You're right - nevah hotchee.

 

[lfpiii]

While I do not know how scraping worked at Ruger, many years ago I did know a retired S&W employee. Back before the 1968 Gun Control Act for many reasons Smith would consider a gun frame as scrap. The frame was offered to employees for a nominal fee.

Once you had the frame you would contact others on the assembly floor to keep an eye open for parts that were considered "seconds". Once you had all the parts you or a friend could build the gun during lunch. Usually lunch lasted longer on Friday as floor managers played golf in the afternoon.

Getting the gun blued was easy. Every new batch of bluing salts had to be tested and these lunch box guns filled the bill.

In his 30 years at S&W my friend built 15 lunch box guns for himself and God knows how many for others. Just before he died he gave me a set of S&W model 10s 2, 3, 4 & 5 inch that later lettered as scraped by the S&W historian.

Years ago I remember that some retired Ruger employees would have some very nice displays at the bigger gun shows in Florida. Some of these employees might still be arround and may be a forum member could get the 411.

 

[das5833]

Hi All-
Finally got a chance to get some photos posted here for you all. Thanks for all the interest and info. Let me know what you think-

P.S.- yooper1- thanks for the tutorial!

 

[contender]

I will say that this gun is a very interesting one! The pics help a bunch. Now, to figure out why it's listed as a "scrapped" one. We may never know!

 

[Terry T]

What are the marks on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard? Looks like some writting. :shock:
Terry T

 

[don44]

A nice looking revolver nonetheless.

 

[Hugh]

What are the marks on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard? Looks like some writting. :shock:
Terry T

Interesting you should pick up on that. Could this shooter have been the subject of a forensic examination of some kind? I have seen firearms that have been examined and identifying marks etched on them.

 

[Coop]

What are the marks on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard? Looks like some writting. :shock:
Terry T

Interesting you should pick up on that. Could this shooter have been the subject of a forensic examination of some kind? I have seen firearms that have been examined and identifying marks etched on them.

Indeed, my wife's carry revolver (CCW properly licensed) was picked up in an airline security checkpoint (pre - 9/11 Thank God), when she came to the airport to pick me up from a business trip in 2000 (she forgot she had it in her purse).

She got cited for a summary offense and paid a fine. It took us 6 months to get her carry gun back, and it now has special markings on it from the county ballistics lab.

Since then, she has never carried a concealed firearm, even though she is certainly permitted.

Coop

 

[tek4260]

Hell of a purse gun if I do say so!