Ruger Compact 7mm-08 - won't shoot

[Sage0227]

I can't get it to shoot less than 3.75" groups. I have tried several different brands of ammo but only 140gr bullets. That is all I intend to shoot in it.

I had a Timney trigger installed and put a Leupold 2.5x8 VX-3 scope on it.

I own the same rifle in .243 and it will shoot 1.25" groups assuming I do my part.

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[BlkHawk73]

1. What distance?

2. Check the scope, it's mount, etc

3. Just may be the twist rate isn't one that the 140gr bullets like.

4. Bad barrel...check the muzzle, throat, rifling

 

[Pal Val]

I bought one two months ago. Burned through several boxes of factory ammo with the same results. Saved the brass and reloaded some Hornady 139 gr IB with a variety of loads. Finally, 41.0 gr of IMR 4320 gave me groups averaging 1". I'll be hunting deer next fall with this rifle/ammo combination.

The thin barrel heats up quickly and accuracy goes to pot. I give myself a few minutes between shots to let the barrel cool. We have a cooling station at the range with a large fan blowing on a gun rack that helps a lot.

Factory ammo is "one size filts all" and this rifle seems to be an odd fit for these loadings. That's when loading your own is worth the effort.

 

[Sage0227]

The distance is a measured 100 yards. I started out shooting three shot groups. Let the rifle totally cool down and shot another three shot group. I did this with several different kinds of ammo. Federal Nosler Partition was one of the ones shot.

I then shot several five shot groups letting the rifle totally cool down between shots. Every shot was from a cold barrel.

I am not interested in hand loading ammo to get an acceptable group. I don't feel that I should have to do that with a Ruger. I have three other Rugers and they all shoot extremely well with Nosler Partition. It is the only kind of bullet I use. The other Mod 77's are in 270, 7mm Rem Mag and 243.

If it won't shoot the bullet I choose to use then it is worthless to me.

The scope is brand new and is mounted properly and solid.

 

[boaman88]

Friends compact shoots just about anything in groups less than 1 inch. I have that caliber in a 77 Ultralight. The only factory ammo it shoots worth a damn is Hornady 139 gr Light Magnum. I can get groups under 11/4 inches with the Hornady. Even tried Hornady with the same bullet in the regular line and it was a no go. Friends dad bought a H&R Handi rifle in 7mm-08. The only ammo it likes is the Light Magnums too. Still waiting on Hornady's new Super Performance to give it a try.

 

[Pal Val]

Whatever floats your boat, my friend! I'm sure that if you want to sell it, you will find a buyer for that rifle in the blink of an eye. It's a fine gun.

If you have hit on three different rifle/factory loads combinations that work for you to the point of wishing for nothing better, I consider you very lucky. Nosler offers really high quality products.

 

[RonS]

I don't know what Ruger's policy is, but if that were my rifle I would call them and politely inquire about getting it looked at. With modern ammo it is getting harder and harder to improve on it by handloading. Not saying you can't, I do it myself in a couple of calibers, but it isn't the given that it used to be.

If you do, put the factory trigger back in before you send it to them.

 

[Sage0227]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback. I like the gun and am going to keep it.

I called Krieger and they said they are backed up with orders and the soonest they can get a barrel to me is December. I really don't want to have to wait that long. Mike at Krieger suggested a twist of 1-10.

When I talked to Shilen they said they could get a barrel to me in about three to four weeks. Although I would really prefer a Krieger, I have their barrel on a couple of rifles, I will probably get a Shilen and have it put on. I will probably lengthen it to around 18", haven't decided yet.

The guy I spoke to at Shilen thought their #1 contour would be perfect. That will put the diameter of the muzzle at .600 with the barrel cut to around 17". I think the Ruger barrel is close to .500. The only thing that concerns me is the Shilen will be a 1-9 twist. I really don't know that much about "twist" and bullets. I do know that it somewhat depends on the length of the bullet as well as the weight. I only want to shoot Nosler 140 gr. Partition bullets.

The gunsmith who will put the barrel on recommends that I float the barrel and bed the action.

I am determined to make it shoot.

 

[RonS]

http://kwk.us/twist.html

If you have bullets on hand to measure or know the length of the bullets you want to use you can play around with different bullets on that calculator.

 

[Quattroclick]

You might want to check the bedding before investing in a new barrel.

 

[6mmsl]

Sounds like you have already made up your mind but a new barrel because you can't shoot partitions is pretty extreme. Plenty of other bullets out there that work really well. Have you considered Accubond or Barnes?

Good shooting Steve.

 

[6mmsl]

Federal makes a 140 in triple x, ballistic tip and trophy bonded all great bullets. Your twist rate is already 1 in 9.5 so going to 1-10 might not be all that different than what you have?

Twist rates faster twist 1-9,1-8 etc. is for heavier bullets- slower twist rates 1-10,1-12 etc. is for lighter bullets- as a general rule but not always applicable. Also length of the bullet has a lot to with it as well. This has everthing to do with physics and there are plenty of web sites for you to read on this. For us average shooter,hunters like me I trust factory rifle makers to figure this out for us and equip the rifles with a twist that works best for most common bullet weights. Ruger seems to nail this pretty well.

Good shooting Steve

 

[Sage0227]

I was pretty limited on the ammo I could find locally without ordering off the internet. What can I tell you, I was a "kid" with a new toy and I wanted to play with it.

I tried ballistic tip, Nosler Partition and Winchester power point, all I could find at the time. They all shot similar groups.

Nosler Partitions have always preformed flawlessly for me and I really don't want to have to shoot anything else. They have also been extremely accurate in all of my rifles. I guess I'm getting set in my ways.

I asked Mike at Krieger, who I trust, and two different gunsmiths about trying to bed the action and or the barrel first. All three agreed that with accuracy that poor they didn't think it was logical to spend the money on bedding, not have it work and then more money for a new barrel and the cost of installation. When I'm done I will probably have as much in the changes as I have in the gun.

Although I have been shooting for a very long time, I have never learned to do my own work on my guns. I would rather put my trust in someone who's "day job" is building and working on guns.

 

[Silent Sam]

Is it shooting one large group or two small groups? Pull the stock and look for "rubs". There should be a pressure point at the end of the barrel channel. If there is side pressure there it will cause problems. That pad needs to be bdc on the barrel. If it is not you can fix it yourself or send it back to Ruger. If you permanently alter the stock Ruger won't fix it. Also look closely at the tang area for any sign of movement of the action in the stock. Assuming no bedding problems, properly torque the action into the stock and shoot it. You can also float the barrel by shimming the bedding block and try it with the barrel floated.

 

[boaman88]

I think I would contact Ruger before buying a new barrel. Why not let them fix the problem?

 

[6mmsl]

I would start back at the beginning. I would re-check the torque on the stock screws - which for me that would be separating the stock from the receiver and remounting it. I thought you may have done this yourself since it has a timney but your smith may have done this. Ruger web site has a video on this process. I LIGHTLY snug all three then torque down the front angle screw first, then the rear trigger guard then the middle trigger guard screw (but I only tighten the middle one just enough so it will not back out)I don't put a lot of torque on that one and it works every time. You must also be consistent every time you do this or point of aim could be altered.

Next re-check the scope mount did you do it or your smith? Are the cross-hairs centered when you started? I would check all mounting processes.

Is it clean- I mean the barrel.

Then I would try all acceptable factory bullet combos that are available for your rifle and test until you find one that works and my guess is you will. This is alot cheaper than some of the work you are considering.

Then shoot slowly -letting the barrel cool between each shot not groups of shots. Compacts usually shoot pretty well.

If all this does not work send it back to Ruger.

Good shooting Steve

 

[Sage0227]

According to Ruger it is not a "problem".

I just got off the phone with Ruger. They said they test fire their rifles at 50 yards, he said they don't have a 100 yd range. Interesting.

I was told that acceptable accuracy is a 2" group at 50 yards. He said 3.75" at 100 yards is considered acceptable accuracy. I'm somewhat stunned. I have been a big fan of Rugers up until today. This is probably the last one I will purchase. I should have purchased the Remington Mod 7 CDL I was looking at.

The Ruger will make one hell of a rifle at distances up to 25 yards. I should have bought two of them.

 

[Sage0227]

Thanks Steve,

I have done all of that several times and I am still getting the same results. I have three other Rugers and have had them apart numerous times. (See my last post.)

I'm afraid I have lost all confidence in the rifle the way it is. I either need to spend "way too much money" on it or sell it.

Anyone want one hell of a deal on a Ruger 7mm-08 Compact????? It's a really cool gun and shoots to Ruger's expectations. :wink:

 

[Black Frog]

have you tried to shimming to simulate a free floated barrel? The Compacts have a pressure point at the end of the forearm. Sometimes eliminating that can help (or hurt) accuracy. I'd play with shimming that to have the barrel floated and see what difference that makes. If it makes it better, it is easy to sand off the pressure pad and reseal.

 

[4MUL8R]

The synthetic stock on my M77 definitely put a pressure point on the barrel. I changed to a Hogue overmolded stock with the full aluminum chassis inside and the forend is completely freefloated. I'll be interested to see if this helps accuracy.

I think the situation deserves a bit of detective work as described in earlier posts. Loose action screws are known precision-robbers. A scope with an erector spring bad will shift under recoil and you think you are going crazy as you sight it in over and over again. You've done a good job on barrel temperature already. I'm betting on a simple fix.

 

[Pal Val]

Simple fix is the word. I ran into the same lack of performance and found a bullet/load combination that gave my rifle almost MOA accuracy at 100 yds. All it took was a dozen or so 10-round batches of a variety of loads. That's a lot less than par for the course for me with a new gun.

The problem was that the rifle would not shoot a particular factory load properly, not that it couldn't shoot ANY load properly. What we have here is a number of solutions (trigger change, barrel floating, barrel change, glass bedding, etc) in search of a problem.

Looking back, the 7mm-08 started out as a wildcat. It has a history of handloading behind it. Factory loads for it are few and offer little choice as to bullet weight and make.

 

[picketpin]

The issue is more likely barrel harmonics, especially with the LIGHT barrel.

It's your rifle and you can do what you want but I personally think re-barreling at this stage is a bit extreme. I there may well be a Nosler Partition that works with the light barrel but it may not be the bullet in the factory ammo you are using. Sadly you may not be able to find it with factory ammo loaded with Noslers in the 150 grain weight range.

You said it opens up and they are three shot groups with a cold barrel. Pleantly of time to cool down between shoots. My question would be, does it throw the first shot to the same point each time?? Try it three days apart witha perfectly cold barrel. Do it three days in a row. If those three are scattered al over the target I'd start looking for something loose, or a pressure point of uneven wear or even a crack at the tang.

I own quite a few 77s and even more #1s. Most are sensative to barrel harmonics. If one doesn't shoot it's usually a matter of finding THE load.

This is predicated on there NOT being a problem. There I would be cautous about the smiths "advice" they are in the business of selling you things and working on your rifle. Be it a new barrel or glass bedding or.................... that's how they make their money. In 50 years of owning rifles and shooting I don't think I've ever seen a new rifle where the barrel was the issue in and of itself.

I'd be even more upset if I spent the money on a Shilen, Hart, Kreiger or other custom barrel and still had the same problem!!??? I own quite a few rifles with custom tubes including Shilens but frankly I'd be willing to bet a #1 contour Shilen will shoot the same loads the same or nearly so as the Ruger barrel. My experience over the years is that the very best barrels are needed to wring out the last tiny bit of accuracy. They are seldom needed for hunting accuracy.

The new Ruger manufactured barrels are hammer forged. While not quite as accurate as cut rifleing it does produce a very unifrom production barrel.

I'd look at other things or have the smith look at other things and fire as many different loads as I could find. It may be that the barrel doesn't like the weights you are using and have acvailable to you and sadly it may simply NOT shoot with Partitions.

While a wildcat in origin, the 7-08 is one of the cartridges that is known for inhierent accuracy. It is very well bore balanced and good uniform brass is available.

As a general rule MOST Rugers work best with a bit of tip pressure at the end of the forearm.

RWT

 

[chucknbach]

OK, Sage what happened? Did you get it to shoot? Please let us know as other people may have the same problem, mainly me.

 

[four70nitro]

Just because the scope is brand new doesn't mean that is can't be the problem. If you have another scope from another rifle that shoots well you should swap it onto this rifle and see if it makes any difference. A brand new Leupold that is bad is rare, but in five years working in a gun store I saw it happen three times.

Dave

 

[rugerfreak]

Just cause you want to shoot 140 grainers doesn't mean your rifle wants to shoot 140 grainers,

Try a different load.

 

[vaturkey]

Someone with a borescope can tell you if the barrel is rougher then a old corncob. Also, check the crown. FWIW, I had a model 70 in .257 Roberts that out of the box wouldn't shoot better then 3.5" at 100 yards. Sent it back to Winchester's Custom Shop and they screwed 4 more barrels on the gun and still couldn't make it shoot. I ended up with a gun that at best shot 2.5" groups and that was with handloads. Heck, Winchester's factory powerpoint shot 4" groups out of that gun. Pure and simple, in that sometimes you just get a bad batch of barrels. The borescope will tell you for sure.

 

[gunners]

+1 on the pressure, point mine (7mm rem mag) did the same would not group well at all. It took about an 1/8-1/4 of a turn on the front screw and hey presto 1.2 groups with factory Win ballistic tips and the last 3 groups of my handloads have gone 0.7,0.7,0.8.I certainly did not think it had that level of accuracy when I first started, I thought I had bought a lemon.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

When i had problems with one of my 257s i send it back . They test fired it and said it shot a 3 inch group and that was within there standards for accuracy and there talking 50 yards!!!! So good luck with it. They did just replace the barrel on an ill shooting 264 mag for me but it was also blowing primers with factory level loads and even then it took 3 trips to ruger and back before they finally gave in and replaced it. If you really like it your probably going to need a barrel and if not just pawn it.

 

[wunbe]

Does Ruger actually say in writing under their letterhead that 2-3" at 50 yards is their standard for accuracy?

wunbe

 

[chucknbach]

Next time go with one that has a little more faith in their product. I know I will.