Round top 7mm rem mag accuracy

indybleck

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
29
City & State/Province
Grand Blanc MI
Bought a round top 7mm rem mag with iron sights and a redfield scope. Took the scope off and had the iron sights removed, when the smith removed the sights he also re-blued the barrel. Got the gun put new glass (Leupold II 3x9 40 mm) on it with warn mounts and rings. Went to the range and the first three shots at 50 yds were less than moa group. Made a couple of adjustments and went to 100yds. Best group I could muster was 3 inches. The barrel was warm (shot 20 rounds between the two distances). Got it home and checked the mounts scope and barrel. Got about a 1/8 turn out of the angle bolt scope rings were good, and cleaned the bore. Going back to the range next week to see if that was the problem. Kinda weird first shots were the best and the more I shot the worse the groups got. Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks
Tom
 
Hi Welcome to the forum I have the same rifle and found it would not shoot heavy bullets any 170 grain bullets would group 3-4 inches it liked 160 grain Grand Slams 3/4 inch groups and loved 140 grain ballistic tips 1/2 inch groups My gun also liked tip pressure

Gramps
 
Tom

Yes, tighten the scope rings/mount scrub the bore out good and see what happens. The early round tops had douglas barrels so if yours is early 70's vintage it should group nice. I have the exact rifle but in 30/06 and it is an easy 1 inch shooter at 100 yards.

Nice rifle-----good luck!

Ron
 
Is it still in wooden stock? I have a M-77. .270 Win. And it got to doing that after about 15 yrs of carrying in every kind of Missouri weather. I put the action in a Bell and Carlson stock. Problem solved. One thing is your barrel is heating, wooden stock has a point of contact at the end of stock. Let the barrel free! My 77 will print a 90 gr to 150 gr in same place. Now I know people are not going to believe that. Its true. Come and I will provide factory ammo. My loads. No difference
 
Belted mags and sporter barrels. To get a benchmark let it cool at least several minutes between each shot. Fire a shot, open the bolt and leave it open, then read a few pages out of a book or play a game of solitaire on your phone or something before you fire another.
 
Dusty is right. This is a hunting rifle. Your first, cold shots are what is important. That's why target rifles are bull barrels. When I get my .270 on, I dont clean, touch the bore until season is thru. Open action and set it in shade. There is a LGS that has this model in 25.06. Priced under 600.00. Kinda like to bring home
 
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Thanks for the heads up. Guess I should have said I was shooting 150 grain core locks yup it has wood stock. I'll let you know what happens next week.
 
The first 7mm Magnums had the same outside barrel contour as the 300 and 338 magnums and were Douglas produced barrels. These had a reputation for good accuracy. They were also heavy. Later the barrel contour was reduced to that of the 270, 30/06, 7X57 etc. Ruger about this time changed to Wilson as their barrel supplier. I have been told by a knowledgeable source that accuracy of the 7mm Magnums suffered. If you would care to post the serial number or at least the prefix and first two of the last five digits we would have an idea of what you have.
 
78-33630 so it looks like it's one of new ones so I'm thinking it's a Wilson barrel. I want accurate groups for hunting mostly for elk out west.
 
That's a pretty late ST. That's what you had, by the way- Sights and Tapped for conventional scope mounts. I have no doubt you will find a load that will be accurate in a cold barrel. That's what matters in a hunting rifles. Besides, elk are big animals, not prarie dogs and don't require minute of angle accuracy to hit them where it counts.
 
I just looked it up, according to my reference material, the highest recorded 77ST ( which is also a 7mm) is 78-33802.
 
I have an early ST in 30-06, and it will put 5 shots into 1/2" at 200yds with boring consistency!! 100yd groups are basically a .32-.33 caliber hole for the same 5 shot group. This is with my handloads of 180grn Nosler Partition Spitzers in front of 53.7grns IMR 4350 and a Federal 210M primer (2700fps), or with Federal Premium factory loads using the same bullet and which my load exactly replicates performance-wise in this rifle. I did leave the sights on this rifle as a backup, and they are sighted to the load I described above. Before I started load development, I free-floated the barrel and bedded the action. I also glass lined the barrel channel as well as running a deep V (glass filled obviously) along the center line to stabilize the forend. This was all done at the same time as when I bedded the action (pillar bedded BTW...a trick to do with Ruger's angled bedding screw set up!). The scope is a German production fixed 4X Zeiss from the early "80s when I assembled the rifle initially. After initial sight in and tweaking with load development, I have not had to touch any adjustments on this rifle for over 30 years. It's just that stable.

As others have mentioned, many of the early round tops used Douglas barrels, but I am not sure about the latter production models or when this practice ceased. I do know that Ruger had some issues with 7mm barrels in the mid to late 1980s, and perhaps even later. I had a 7x57 77RS and a 280Rem 77RS in that period and neither of them would produce groups under 2" at 100yds. And even the 2" groups were not consistent. Frankly, I could have lived with that had they been reliable, but I'd get a 2" group one time, and then a 4" group the next. I tried clean barrels, cold barrels, hot barrels, dirty barrel, oiled barrels and dry barrels. I tried floating the barrels, polishing the bores, umpteen different handloads and factory loads, every available bullet weight and configuration...all to no avail. I REALLY wanted the 7X57 to shoot since I LOVE that caliber, and would have tolerated even 3" groups had they been consistent, but it just wasn't to be. Ultimately I gave up and both rifles were traded off. But the 30-06 is still with me today, and has accounted for easily over 300 head of game. It is known as "Dad's Rifle" by my sons, and is still the rifle I pick up when the hunt is important to me even though I have a couple of safes full of other stuff that is newer and nicer. I wish I could give you some encouragement on your 7mm, but my experience with Rugers in that bore size have been about my only true disappointment with any Ruger product.
 
It gets a couple more chances to see what it can do. The first shots were the best then it just got worse. If it will hold one to one and a half inch groups with a cold barrel it'd be a keeper.
 
robertkirksey said:
Taxedtodeath, would your 30/06 ST have a 70 prefix?


It has a "75" prefix which places the manufacture date at 1981. I guess, in retrospect, that this is not actually all that early since it was about 10-12 years into the 77 production run, but it was one of my first 77s, so it's early to ME. Now I'm curious....why do you ask?
 
robertkirksey said:
The early rifles had Douglas barrels. Ruger went with Wilson barrels around '73 or so.

Ah! OK. Then I have a Wilson barrel in mine, but DANG does it shoot!! The 7mms I had would have been around the same timeframe, so I would guess they had Wilson bbls too. I still regret that 7x57 not shooting. It had some really nice wood, and I just love that caliber. That said, I did find a 1904 production .275 Rigby a couple of years ago to console myself with. It doesn't spend much time in the field, but holding it is like stepping into a time machine and joining Jim Corbett on the hunt for the Champawat maneater.
 
" first shots were the best and the more I shot the worse the groups"
Could be that's too much gun for you. 7 Mag has a sharp bite. I won't own one.
 
GAO LLC said:
" first shots were the best and the more I shot the worse the groups"
Could be that's too much gun for you. 7 Mag has a sharp bite. I won't own one.

:shock: Oops!! He went there! Accused a man of flinching!! :wink:

That may be part of it, but given my own experience with Ruger 7mms I am convinced that there is an inherent issue with them for at least a manufacturing period of a year or two. I have already referenced a 77 in .280/7mm Express and one in 7x57 that I owned, but I also had issues with a Number 1 in 7x57 and one of my close friends, who develops all of his loads under my supervision, had similar problems with a 7mm Mag. I shot that gun as well, and could not produce acceptable groups. And I too had groups that would deteriorate through the session. It also suffered from wandering zero, where a cold rifle may have several inches difference from initial cold clean shot one day to the next. This I attributed to bedding and the barrel heating up causing variances in fore end pressure. I glassed his action for him and floated his barrel, and this alleviated some of the wandering zero, but we never got that rifle to shoot consistently either. I love the Ruger 77 platform as a rough and ready hunting rifle, and I have several in various calibers that shoot exceptionally well, but I had to throw in the towel on 7mms with Ruger. Just one of those things I guess. And to be fair, it has been a LONG time since I have played with a 77 of any sort in 7mm. They may have completely corrected the problem by now for more recent production guns.
 
When I shoot I use a weighted rest, so there is no recoil to me. That's the way I shoot on initial sight in to take that factor out of the equation, been down that road with my boys. Going to the range Sunday we'll see what happens. Might be on the market by next week.
 
Well, no better thinking about having pillars put in and bedding the action. Don't know if it's worth it or not. Also thinking about getting a Boyd's thumbhole stock......any advice
 
Decided to look closer into what's going on with the 7mm. Checked the barrel clearance and decided free float the barrel. When I took the barrel off I noticed the front stud for the sling looked a little tall, plus I could see where the barrel was sitting in the stock. Found some dowel rod and sand paper and got to work. I now have clearance to about an 1.5 inches in front of the action. Plan on getting that cleaned up also. Put the front stud in and sure enough watched it move the barrel before it bottomed out. Took it out and cut about an eighth of an inch off, put it back in tighten up and didn't move the barrel. Now off to the range, one more thing I'm going to try is glass bed the recoil lug.
 
No kidding, couldn't believe it once I started really looking close. That sling stud was really what surprised me. Man that thing was standing proud.
 
Got it down to little over 1 inch group. Still a little work to do on the stock, took it apart when I got home and found a spot in front of the action that didn't have enough clearance. So I'm cleaning that up and still thinking about glassing the lug. I don't think it's difficult the smith I go to wants $85 to do it. I'm just a little shy about getting compound in the threads on the lug and not being able to get the bolt out. Any pointers on the right way to do that.

Thanks
Tom
 
Hello,
Here is a link to a pretty good thread about bedding a 77. I followed it when bedding a gunsight scout rifle and had good results. I think I coated the stock bolt with a release agent and after that dried, axle grease.
I have found modeling clay helpful with bedding jobs. There are often minor pockets or low spots that could cause mechanical locking when the bedding dries. A small amount of clay will level them off and it goes better.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3003214/DIY_bedding_M77_pic_heavy#Post3003214

Rich
 
Littlebluetruck that thread is great. Took me two days to get through it. Lot of great info. Bell and Carlson doesn't make stocks for the older M 77 tang safety and don't have any. Just going to keep going with what I got.
 

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