Revolver Bullets for Deer

[David Bradshaw]

This subject of how to select a revolver bullet for deer has very nearly been whipped to death. It's about to get whipped some more. If we dispense with opinion based on personally untested theory, we may distill a few guidelines.

I would like to start this off with the suggestion we name a baseline cartridge from which to work. The cartridge which more than any other launched handgun hunting towards some semblance of respectability within the hunting fraternity is the .44 Remington Magnum. With the .44 magnum as the center of the wheel, we may radiate towards a few less powerful and a few more powerful wheelgun cartridges.

Confining the discussion to deer-deer, not elk, not moose, and leaving black and brown bear out of it, we may focus on the most widely distributed, most sought after "big" game in the United States. At the same time limiting a bulk of discussion to a range at which serious practitioners of the revolver group five or six shots into 6-to-8 inches from field positions, say for the hell of it 40 to 50 yards, half a football field. If your marksmanship skills enable you make clean shots at greater distance, by all means. And, if your revolver has a good scope and you're well practiced with it, the optic extends shooting light (to a lesser degree than for a rifle); and the optic extends range----within the performance of your bullet----to your ability to hold.

And making imperative an ethical shot----the shoulder and lung zone at the forward third of the body. Lousy shot placement, with any bullet, produces a very unpredictable outcome.

I was hard into handgun hunting deer well before the advent of handgun silhouette, and came to respect a few performance items as fact:

1) Marksmanship. Knowing when not to shoot liberates you to shoot.

2) Big bullets with fist-size frontal area PUNCH----whether that area is arrived at by expansion or a wadcutter-like meplat.

3) Hard, narrow-meplat bullets----whether cast or a jacketed bullet that doesn't expand----must rely on velocity to communicate impact; velocity seldom attainable from a revolver.

4) If you must drop the deer in its tracks, break its shoulders (precluding high spine severance).

5) Nothing drains blood from meat like a lung shot which misses the heart.

Footnote: I have never bounced a .44 off a deer. That includes hollow points as light as 180 grains from three makers, although I would not voluntarily set out to track deer with that weight bullet. Light bullets are about lung shots.
David Bradshaw

 

[WESHOOT2]

Given the 44 Magnum and Mr. Bradshaw's (logical) parameters, I suggest the finest premium 'deer' bullet is the Swift A-Frame.

 

[stevemb]

I like David's logic, nothing to mess with left open ! Ok, I'll play too. I'll say the finest non-premium, plain ole chunk a lead, is a 280-300gr WFN. Any size deer, any angle. Placement and accuracy still apply. stevemb

 

[Pal Val]

I propose that long disertations on theoretical ballistics do less to solve the argument than shooting a few deer with different bullets and comparing the results. How about adjourning the session until after the deer season?

Just a suggestion...

 

[contender]

I too have been a logtime handgun hunter. I have taken my fair share ( & then some) of deer.
David has definately placed a lot of thought into his OP. I will say that #1 is one of the things I feel the strongest about. I have allowed some really nice bucks to go on because I couldn't get the shot I wanted. (The one I knew would definately do the job.) While the majority of my handgun kills have been with a T/C,, the facts remain. All 5 of Davids points are spot on. It's hard to argue with the logic he has put forth. Many of us who do spend a lot of time handgun hunting,, and have for years understand these facts.
Personally, I favor the cast lead slugs,, with a large meplat, traveling around the 1100 fps velocity to do the job. LBT's are hard bullets to beat.

 

[stevemb]

I believe David has been in the "bidness" long enough, he's is NOT talking theory. Thats what he trying to avoid. stevemb

 

[s4s4u]

Been using the 250 XTP in the 45 Colt for years and never have had a deer go far. Naked lead is a PITA, IMHO.

 

[5of7]

first, I would like to say that the 5 points expressed in the opening post are absolutely on the money...

As to the bullet, any expanding .44 Magnum bullet of 180 grains or more will very nicely kill a whitetail deer if the shot is properly placed and the deer presents a frontal of a side-on shot at a reasonable range.

BUT....they aren't always so obliging, often presenting an opportunity for a raking shot or a rear-end shot. This is why I use a heavier bullet such as the 240 gr. Hornady XTP bullet. The over-penetration that I have gotten when the shot is side-on, has not been a problem, but on more than one occasion, I was glad that I was shooting a heavier bullet.

As to larger calibers, well I really don't think that anyone needs a .475 Linebaugh or a 500 S&W or a 480 Ruger to kill deer, but if that is what you got, then that will do fine too.....just don't get to thinking that a bigger gun compensates for poorly placed shots....unless you like to follow up on blood trails under less than desirable light conditions. 8)

 

[buckeyeshooter]

240, 265 or 300 grain xtp at top velocity in a 44 mag or a 325 grain barnes in a 500 SW.

 

[Lee Martin]

I'd use something along these lines:

Sort of becomes a one-size fits all slug. Fine for deer and plenty of punch for heavier game.

 

[OLBIKER]

I use 300 gr.WFN hard cast boolits in 44 Mag for everything from deer on up.Punch through their shoulders and they go down.Loaded to 1,000 FPs does the job handily.On a deer probably just about any flavor boolit will work.It just makes things simpler to use one boolit for everything.

 

[Rumrunner]

I load 240 XTP's about 1 grain less than max listed loads with H-110. I have taken a 158" 9pt buck with this in my TC Encore at 18 yards and used same load in my Redhawk to take a button buck at 45 yards. Both deer lung shot behind the shoulder. Big one went 25-35 yards and small one droped in his tracks. I also used this load to take a small black bear with a 96/44. I have also used this bullet in my muzzle loaders with very good results. Accuracy in my Redhawk is 1.5 to 2.5 inches at 50 yards. The TC puts em in 1 hole at 50. My self imposed limit for an unwounded deer is 50 yards with the Redhawk.

 

[donut757]

Thank you for posting this... Have been given some serious thought about hunting with handgun.

my issue is i dont hunt with rifles but a few times every couple years, if that. and i cant really.spend the money to set up and buy a new gun, love to have a 44 redhawk 7.5". But i do have a 6" 686 and a blackhawk 4 5/8 in 45 colt. I shoot the 686 much better than the blackhawk with iron sights, niether.are.scoped.

What are yall opinions on the .357 for deer, ~50 yards.?

 

[stevemb]

Donut757, sent ya a PM.. stevemb

 

[MMichaelAK]

I'd use something along these lines:

Sort of becomes a one-size fits all slug. Fine for deer and plenty of punch for heavier game.

Lee, I agree with you there. 300 grains and .452 caliber. Have to say I agree with Mr. Bradshaw as well.

 

[David Bradshaw]

If you shoot your 686 .357 better than your Ruger .45 Colt, suggest you take the .357 with 180 WFN or 180 JHP loaded to 1100, possibly 1200 fps----should be attainable in 6" barrel. I have taken deer with the Federal 180 JHP @ 1100 fps in a 6" Python. (Federal developed the bullet for the .357 Maximum.) If the deer doesn't show much reaction with this arrangement, shoot him again. If he's down, don't re-holster; be ready to shoot again. And remember, while your brain may be on shoulder or shoulder/lung crease, your eye is on the sight.

Keep it coming. Together, we know more than any one.
David Bradshaw

 

[Three44s]

For those of us that are fortunate enough to have the Hodgdon #26 Data Manual, Mr. Bradshaw penned a great article about IHMSA Handgun Silhouette.

I have enjoyed and referred to that manual as well as his article many times!!

Thank you Mr. Bradshaw!

I have to confess that my experience with big game and handguns is scanty at best. My "carry" slug in the .44 is the RCBS 250K. I have always thought pretty highly of Elmer Keith's design but the following experience made me rethink it's universal greatness:

During a late season hunt, some hunters lost a cow elk on our ranch. We were feeding our cattle herd and as I rounded a corner of a brush line with the tractor, I bumped into a cow elk laying in a pool of blood. She got up to escape and all I had was my Smith Mountain Gun (loaded with those "Keiths" and 2400).

As the cow started traversing a rocky hill side I thought I had better play it safe and punch her in the lungs as she was broadside. Every step she was getting less accessible and for a late afternoon in December ..... I could see a messy situation developing.

I can't remember the precise placement of each round but I landed three out of three slugs between the upper lungs (my mistake) and her neck but she was not stopping.

After all of that she turned to make her way straight up the steep rocky hill side and I figured that something decisive better happen ........ her turning gave me a good angle on her brain stem and fortunately I landed the fourth slug there and it exited out alongside a nostril and that did the trick.

Several log chains in series and our tractor and some relieved hunters went to work on their elk.

That experience made me appreciate controlled expansion jacketed rounds and wide flat nosed cast slugs more. The SWC I was carrying was not the best choice until that cow presented that "chip shot" and had she been making better time up that hillside, I would have never been able to land it in any case.

Best regards

Three 44s

 

[wildcatter]

All good points, I hunt a lot of thick heavy cover, I don't like to take risky shots, but over the past 30 or more years have put weight to work in these conditions, you would be amazed at what a 340 grain .45 slug @ 1150 fps. will go through without being deflected off course and still give 100% penetration when it gets there! These are my design and very accurate out of all three of my 45 colt Rugers and my FA.

I have never recovered one from a deer or hog, and never had one get away, but have shot through brush where the animal was barely visible. Since it starts out nearly 1/2" it has no need to expand, just penetrate, and they will leak to death! I don't hunt with anything in my revolvers that I don't personally cast myself. and love the fat meplat, also have a custom mold for a 250 grain that is simply a shortened plain base with the same nose. But this 340 is my serious work bullet.

 

[David Bradshaw]

Three44s... thank you for taking us to school. You're packing a Model 29 Mountain Gun, doing chores, when a wounded elk, low on blood high on adrenalin, makes for cover. Three 44s----where'd you get your handle?----strike high and forward of incapacitation. Your fourth shot, the killing shot, chops spine/brain joint.

Four shots four hits on an animal desperate to escape with what's left of its life. The easiest way to miss after the first shot is to focus on the animal instead of your sights and trade concentration for speed. To stay true to your sights when the chips are down----that's doing it with a sixgun!
David Bradshaw

 

[tacklebury]

I like Sierra's 240 gr. Sportsmaster HP. Very accurate also in my 45 colt. I use Hornady 300 gr. XTP Magnums over H110 only if I'm going for bigger game or in bear country.

 

[SAJohn]

I started handgun shooting before there was the big selection of .44 bullets you see today. I went with Keith and Skeeter's advice on using hard cast 250 grains Keith style slugs in front of heaping amounts of the old 2400. Nothing fancy on the revolver, just a plain old model Super Blackhawk with iron sights. One handed practice shooting and a lot of it. I hunted only western mule deer. After firing, I never had to track one down.

 

[Three44s]

David,

Actually I was landing the rounds where I thought I should ...... though I realized (right away) that high lung shot would have been better if it had been lower. The limitation was no (bullet) expansion and not enough metplat and as you point out: Too much adrenalin and too little blood in that cow, she was walking dead and not aware of it.

My handle refers to three revolvers I had in .44 for quite a while. I traded one for a .480 Ruger in SRH a year ago so I am "counterfit" going by it now ........ but I suppose a Marlin '94 in .44 that I dream about would bail me out ......... ?

I could change to "fourty something" as I have .41's, .44's and the .480 .... but I am in my 50's so that might also constitute a fib! Also, I am registered on many forums with the handle that I settled with ....... it would be hard to teach this old dog that new trick.

Best regards

Three 44s

 

[Short Barrel]

I've had pretty good luck with a variety of 240 gr hollow points and soft points.I've used Remingtons,Hornady XTP's,Eldorado Starfire and Federal Hydra Shoks.They all did well if placed well and usually exited.Those were mostly from 4" guns but did kill a muley with the 3" 629.

I have also used 305 gr hardcasts on deer out of a 4" Redhawk and a 4 5/8" SBH.They always did well when I did my part and they always exit.Speed was rated at 1325 but never chronoed in my guns.

Most of those hollow points and soft points did decent damage.I thought it (damage) was comparable to the 7-08 rifle that I had at the time.

That old Remington Cor Lokt soft point is not to be overlooked.We read more about the new wizbang stuff but it is a solid performer,as is the hollowpoint version.

 

[WESHOOT2]

What are yall opinions on the .357 for deer, ~50 yards.?

IME the Remington conventional 180g S-JHP at 1180--1400fps works.

 

[t-reg]

IME with deer:

- JHP for broadside only heart, lung or neck shots. LSWC or other big meplat bullets in the boiler room git 'er done from any angle.

I learned the hard way stalking deer in corn fields. When you find them there they are often laying down resting, unaware of your presence. I found that a butt on shot with a JHP will often not make it to the boiler room. Those cheap commercial hard cast LSWC were the answer. Viola, Elmer Keith was not some old coot outclassed by todays "technologically superior" high $ bullets. I have found them superior to JHP even when the ideal broadside shot is presented as well, either when breaking the shoulders or heart lung.

- Rompin stompin magnum loads are unnecessary and most likely counter-beneficial.

Universal, Unique, WW231 etc, are your friends. Practice and plink with your hunting loads all year long. If possible hunt small game with them. Familiarity brings success. Another function of the cheap commercial bullets.

 

[Three44s]

t-reg,

I don't know what caliber you are using so I'll just mention somethings I have noticed with the .44 mag as it's the one I have worked with more than all the other's combined.

There is a ton of difference between jacketed slugs and their expansion at .44 speeds.

A Nolser 200 gr. that would not be fit for varmints because it passed right through might be a game changer on a deer yet it's low weight might cause most to pass on it.

A Nolser 300 gr. mushrooms bigger than an atom bomb yet holds together famously and many swear by it on a broadside on an elk.

When I shoot the Speer 270 gold dot, I wonder if I'd need to hit bone to see it expand. I think in it's past life it was the original tank killer .......... LOL!

But I am a caster ........ and self sufficency brings me back to lead!

As far as powders, I also down load when it suits me but I am more impressed with HS-6 than most choices. It gives me more punch with accuracy with less pressures or recoil. It's an upper medium field load for me after our bears have gone to bed. I have not found a magnum revolver cartridge it does not do great service with.

For just plain plinkin' I like Clays.

Three 44s

 

[VAdoublegunner]

An interesting discussion and astute observations.

At one time, I was a believer in 300 gr jacketed bullets driven to maximum velocities. They worked well enough, but I came to ask "why is all that blast and recoil necessary?"

If we compare a typical mid level 44 Mag lead load to a lead roundball blackpowder rifle, proven to be quite effective as deer harvesters within appropriate range, then why wouldn't a good cast or swaged bullet of greater weight at nominal velocities of 1000-1200fps work equally well? Stepping aside from the 44 Mag stipulation for the moment, I started to use the very fine RCBS 45-270-SAA bullet driven to around 950-1000fps with HS-6. It was very accurate in all my revolvers, penetration was more than adequate and, more importantly, it hit hard and let the air out. Plus, it was very pleasant to shoot .... accurately.

More recent experiments have been with a 5.5" Ruger/Lipsey's 44 Special, driving the Speer swaged 240gr SWC to around 1050-1100fps (with WSF). They are accurate, easily keeping groups within the bull of a 25yd slow fire target at 50 yards when shooting standing 2-handed, and I suspect they will prove adequate in the field when given the chance (not yet, unfortunately). I expect them to be a good bullet within the limitations where I plan to use them. The guns themselves are the very essence to me of an easily carried and handled field revolver for close range stalking or stand hunting.

 

[WESHOOT2]

A customer was going on a deer hunt with his 45 Colt Anaconda, and it was a special opportunity for a (really) big deer.
He asked for a maximum-performance option and we decided on the Swift 325g A-Frame JHP.

His shot was uphill at a (measured) 75 yds in the rain. The bullet entered the front at chest level, and passed through the body breaking every bone encountered.
The fully expanded bullet was recovered against the hide at its rear.
Deer fell over without taking even one step.
Six others witnessed.

But that ain't every shot at every deer, ay? :mrgreen:

 

[VAdoublegunner]

No doubt, Swift bullets are excellent bullets. At a buck or so a throw, they should be! I wish I could afford to practice with and shoot them more often. For an especially important or costly hunt, I would give them more than cursory consideration. In deference to hunting ethics, I would not choose a bullet that is even marginally ineffective. Yet, many bullets of lesser cost can be and are effective for the more common "in one's own backyard" usage, especially for us here east of the Mississippi seeking the common whitetail.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

What are yall opinions on the .357 for deer, ~50 yards.?

No, problem, but picking the right projectile is crucial and harder to do with the 357. And of course, shot placement is paramount; more so as you go towards less powerful calibers.