Reloading 40 S&W vs. 45 ACP

[soldernut]

I'm an experienced reloader in the market for a new pistol - and looking for a bit of advice.

I thought I'd made up my mind to make my next pistol a 40. But...

In the Semi-Auto forum I posted a few questions about .40 Cal pistols. A couple of the responders mentioned reloading problems.

In a nutshell, they seemed to suggest that, due to it's small case capacity, the 40 is a touchy caliber to reload - not forgiving at all.

Not that I expect forgiveness in reloading; I don't. I've never made a squib, never a double charge - never really had a problem.

But since I enjoy reloading and shooting, I'd just as soon choose the 45 ACP if it has significant advantages over the 40 in reloading.

I'd love the benifit of all ya-all's experience. Thanks!

 

[Cholo]

I reload both and IMHO the .45 is a bit more forgiving. It's really an easy caliber to reload for. The finicky part of reloading the .40 is that when introduced it seemed the chambers were tighter. You don't have much room for error when it comes to the amount of taper crimp you put on it. I was off .001 on my 1st reloads and all failed to fully chamber by about 1/16th". I fired them all and knew the "problem". The next batch were .001 tighter and I havn't had a failure to fully go into battery since. Never had a problem with the .45ACP, maybe just luck.

Maybe tolerances are different now. I bought some Dillon case gauges for both calibers. If it fits, it will shoot--at least in my guns. You can use the barrel of your gun, but why bother when quality case gauges measure it all?

The 40's not at all difficult to reload for. Like all calibers that headspace on the case mouth, make sure you're in spec.

 

[Ruber]

I didn't vote because I really enjoy loading for both cartridges and have not had a problem at all with the .40 S&W. In fact, my reloads for the .40 have fed more reliably than my .45 ACP (but the .40s are all in new guns and the .45s in some old classics). And if you are an experienced reloader and you are typically careful, it should not seem at all touchy, it hasn't to me in the least (I think some folks try to hot rod it a bit too much and run into problems).

I'm on a .45 kick right now, but that's just because my 45s are more fun to shoot.

Between the two, I'd base the cartridge choice on which pistol you enjoy more...

 

[comanche]

I know it's not part of the poll, but if you want a new semi that will
REALLY benefit from your reloading.
10mm ; the 40s big brother.

 

[glockmutt]

I also believe the .45 is a much more forgiving round to reload. The image below is an example of some .40 overloads. These occured while shooting over a couple of days. I was an active IPSC shooter and loaded .40 rounds in the thousands. This was in a Glock 35 with a stock barrel. During a practice session the rounds on the left were fired. By the bulge on the lower case you can see it almost blew, but didn't. When the one above blew out and down it cut the mag release in half and also the trigger. These were replaced and a couple of days later the round on the right went with a complete case head separation. The extractor departed never to be found and the bearing/bushing/plunger assembly was found on the ground next to me. Again these parts were replaced and the gun worked fine. No other damage. This was back in the 175 power factor days and getting there with reloads sometimes did push the envelope. After all this I had a Briley barrel fitted and I got very meticulous in my .40 reloading, especially when it came to running every piece of brass through a headspace gauge. Eventually I went back to shooting my .45's. Less worries. The cases on the left were Winchester and the one on the right was a G.F.L. or Fiochi. Friends I talked to about it said the GFL's tended to be "soft" and to avoid them for reloading. I don't remember what the loads or bullets were since this occured a few years ago. I just thought I'd throw it up here for education. I still reload, I still shoot .40 and .45 and I still have all my fingers.

 

[sourdough44]

I load both & don't have a problem with the 40s&w. It is a higher pressure round though my loads are on the mild side. As long as they cycle reliably that's fine for target & most plinking.

 

[Kanook]

I use to reload the 40 for the wife. Never had a problem with it, but I use a single stage so I don't know if that matters to some. I would dread when we would have a match coming up.

I've got a set of Lee carbide dies and a bag of 100 mixed brass if you want to do some horse trading.

 

[wixedmords]

Not hard to reload either Soldiersnut. Same process. Both are enjoyable to reload. The 40 is a higher pressure round so as long as you approach the max load conservatively, and check for pressure issues, you shouldn't have any issues.

Economically, 40 bullets are a little cheaper as are cases and primers. The 40 uses small pistol primers and the 45 uses large pistol primers. Powder favors the 40 a bit, but gets closer to a stand off as you go to heavier bullets in the 45.

The issue with the Glock from above was an issue with supported chambers which applied to first and second generation Glocks, and possibly third generations. There are some other pistols that are unsupported. That could be the next thing to look into and see how that applies to your list.

 

[Hammer]

.

There is a long, long successful history of reloading the 45 ACP for everyday use, light bullseye target use, heavy IPSC use, hunting use, etc.

The 45 ACP is on the short list of most reloaded cartridges in history.


The 40 S&W is nearly the opposite (I do reload for the 40 S&W and its better brother the fullhouse 10mm).

There are all kinds of issues ranging from some very popular guns that won't handle 40 S&W with previously fired cases, bulged brass, even insurance for commercial loaders may be effected by 40 S&W issues. Some reloading equipment makers even build special push-through sizing dies for the 40 they recommend using before regular loading begins..

Some commercial loaders won't use once-fired brass for the 40 but have no qualms with it in any other cartridge.

Some say these are all just bad rumors. Others cite specific examples.

Am just sharing them to let you know there is controversy in the 40 S&W world.


.

 

[soldernut]

Yes, the widespread tales of woe reloading the 40, and the absolutely crazy business of building guns with unsupporting chambers has me rethinking this whole business.

Several people have said that, with modern SD ammo, the 9mm is great.

Well, a financial surprise forces me to postpone a purchase, so I'll just take all the time in the world to make a choice.

I even reconsidered the 1911/45 - until I learned they're a royal pain to field strip.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I don't load either so I didn't vote.

But I've made an observation or two over the years, and mine seem to be right in line w/ what's already been mentioned:

The .45 is more "forgiving" than the .40. So for a couple of classes of reloaders, it makes more sense to me. Those classes would be "new" reloaders, and "non-meticulous" reloaders (since there are lots of folks who safely and successfully load tons of ammo but do it w/ the minimal number of steps required to assemble a round, that doesn't mean they're not "experienced.")

The .40 seems to be a better choice for the guy who doesn't mind taking the extra steps, including gauging every round, required to make "the best" ammo possible. And failure to be "meticulous" seems to cause problems w/ this caliber more than the .45.

Many of the guns in each caliber seem to favor the appropriate loader class, too.

Just observations...

Rick C

 

[Revolver-Time]

I reload both. I voted for the ACP but the 40 S&W works just as well. The 40 is a bit cheaper, as it uses small primers and the bullets are less expensive.

 

[WESHOOT2]

IME there is less room for less than perfection when loading the 40 S&W (I used known once-fired not-from-Glock cases during my 'day').

 

[soldernut]

Rick Courtright,

I do understand the distintions between sloppy reloaders, "decent" reloaders and meticulous reloaders.

I typically reload in one of two ways (both with single-stage press, both start with properly trimmed cases, carefully checked primer seating, and bullet seating and crimping done in two steps):

"Bulk" reloading for practice and fun at the range. For this, I don't gauge every round, but I do spot-check maybe every tenth. That is, I re-weigh the charge being dropped from my power measure, re-measure bullet seating depth, and test fit the finished round in a Wilson case gauge. Note: When bulk reloading, my charges are nowhere near the "never exceed" level.

"Special Purpose" reloading. This is when I'm working up a new load for testing, or loading for "serious use," as when I pack while hiking/fishing in the back country were we have enough bear and cougar to be just be a little worried. (I've come face-to-face with both.)

In my "special purpose" reloading, I'm very meticulous. Every powder charge is weighed out. Every round checked for bullet seating depth. I even mic the front of the taper area on each round. And every round is run through the case gauge.

The fact that my Lee dies give such consistent results sometimes tempts me to be less meticulous with every round, but I resist the temptation to loosen up.

I don't mind working at the totally meticulous level for special purpose loading.

But I sure don't want to get married to a caliber that requires meticulous reloading all the time. I prefer a caliber forgiving enough that I can do my "for fun" bulk loading.

So far, I've had no problems with 38 Spl, 357 Mag and 9mm. Same goes for my rifle loads (30-30, .308, 45/70).

 

[WESHOOT2]

The relatively high incidence of 40 S&W KBs suggest this cartridge does NOT fall into the "easy" range.

(It actually proves it to me).


(Yes, I have investigated all-too-numerous 45 ACP KBs, too).

 

[soldernut]

WESJPPT2

'scuse my ignorance... What is KB?

 

[glockmutt]

"KABOOM"

 

[WESHOOT2]

Refer to the pictures in this thread.

Not just for Glocks......

 

[mattsbox99]

Don't confuse .40 S&W KaBooms with any other gun than a Glock. If you are buying a Glock, don't reload for it with the factory barrel. Its an inevitable KB. I've seen 3 glock KBs personally.

I load for three .40 S&W guns, one is a Para Ordnance 16-40LDA, the other two are M&Ps (one fullsize for USPSA Competition, one compact for EDC). I shoot them all a lot. I've loaded many thousands of rounds of .40. My guns have fully supported chambers and can not have a Glock type KB. The factory M&P barrel is fully supported.

That said, I did vote in favor of the .45 ACP being easier to reload, greater cost savings for reloads, and greater amount of data available. The .40 is no different, it still requires attention to detail. As long as its not for a Block, you are perfectly safe with it.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I must cordially disagree, as I have investigated all-too-numerous not-from-Glock 40 &W KBs, to include HK (duty guns -two, on the same day- using issued duty ammo), S&W, Caspian, STI, Walther, Beretta, and Ruger. Also numerous 1911-platform guns.

It is a 'cartridge' thing, not a 'gun' thing. It is NOT always a 'handload' thing, but mostly.....

I suggest the NUMBER ONE CULPRIT in auto-loading KBs is bullet setback, regardless of chambering.

I suggest bullets lodged in bores the main cause of revolver KBs, far more common than over-charges.

Spoils the fun.........

 

[Rick Courtright]

I don't mind working at the totally meticulous level for special purpose loading.

But I sure don't want to get married to a caliber that requires meticulous reloading all the time. I prefer a caliber forgiving enough that I can do my "for fun" bulk loading.

Hi, soldernut

As I mentioned, I don't load the .40, so I'd defer to those who do for info about how "married" you're going to be if you choose this one over the .45. Weshoot2 is an especially important source, as he's loaded "professionally" while most of us have been "hobbyists" so he's had opportunities to see things most of us haven't!

Some calibers are quite happy to be downloaded. I load many of the same calibers you've mentioned in your stable, and been able to come up w/ nice mild loads for most.

Now, I dunno if the .40 allows much downloading, but IF (big word!) it does, you may be able to incorporate your normal loading practices w/o worry. It's a question to ask of those who do load it!

Rick C

 

[Bucks Owin]

Can't say one way or another, have always been a wheelgunner. However, since my young shootist sidekick has 1911 .45 ACP fever... :roll: , I'll have to start learning pistol reloading 101...

 

[Chief 101]

I do either/both don't matter. I like shooting the 40 better tho. I would take a revolver first anyroads.

 

[WESHOOT2]

In the 40 S&W, it really comes down to the case. If the case was already fired in a 'generous' chamber, it becomes more difficult for it to fully secure the next bullet against setback.
If new, or fired from a 'tighter' chamber, then it reloads like any other.

Crimp alone will NOT secure ANY bullet. Case neck tension does the work, with crimp adding some assistance.
Undersized sizing dies often are employed to ensure more case neck tension, but some used cases no longer offer sufficient life ("work hardened") to take advantage of the smaller sizing, so can still fail in securing the bullet.

Same thing can happen with any case, in any chambering.

 

[Ruber]

Undersized sizing dies often are employed to ensure more case neck tension, but some used cases no longer offer sufficient life ("work hardened") to take advantage of the smaller sizing, so can still fail in securing the bullet.

Good point, this is almost always where I see the first case wear in the .40 reloads with splits or like you said, no more ability to hold tension. Especially now with cheaper foreign made brass making it to the ranges.

 

[Chief 101]

4000 40cal reloads and now you tell me it didn't work! Gee thanks!

 

[WESHOOT2]

I have personally fired more than 4000 in an afternoon just pruning trees......

 

[Chief 101]

I have probably half of what I have made up, I just don't get the grin on my face shooting these as I do the old wheelguns. I only use good components as I have heard of the problems, therefore, I avoid the problems.
I shoot an XD when I do shoot this cal, just my way of doing the right thing.
Chief aka Maxx Load

 

[mattsbox99]

WS2, regardless of what you've "investigated" I'll be shooting my M&P .40 at the USPSA Nationals in September.

 

[PointNshoot]

I reload 40s for my glock,so far no issues but I do load close to the MIN load on all my rounds and I drop most bullets through a headspace gauge to make sure they slide in correctly....Im wondering what all other things I need to look for to keep my self safe......I reload using a LeeClassic