reload corrosion problems?

[erreertt]

They have only been sitting in the empty ammo cartons for about 2.5 weeks I made a seperate test batch with a longer oal and put them in a baggie. The ones in the plastic trays are ok the ones from the bag have grey green stuff all over the brass and bullet. What happened ?

 

[Rick Courtright]

They have only been sitting in the empty ammo cartons for about 2.5 weeks I made a seperate test batch with a longer oal and put them in a baggie. The ones in the plastic trays are ok the ones from the bag have grey green stuff all over the brass and bullet. What happened ?

Hi,

Where are you? If it's a humid area, you may have atmostpheric moisture captured in your plastic bags. If you have some of those little dessicant packs they put in the box with a lot of electronic products, you might want to run a test with one of them in the baggie. If that cures the problem, you've got your answer. Where I am, it's dry as a bone except for that one or two hours a year when we get a few drops of rain, so corrosion's less of a problem...

If that doesn't do the trick, there may be some residue left from cleaning/handling the brass. If you use any "chemical" ways of cleaning your brass, such as soap and water, citric acid, ammonia based products, etc., it's important to give everything a really good wash and dry before using it... I use very hot water with mine. Seems to work ok.

Also... looking at those rounds on the lower left: notice the "snake swallowing a gopher" appearance from bullet bulges on a couple? Sometimes flaring the cases just a bit more to allow the bullets to self center a little better before seating them will eliminate those (could take a few tries to get "just right.") Unless you're using oversized bullets (as is common with cast lead), those bulges look to be a bit excessive. Could lead to feeding problems depending on the gun. And they're not so pretty: yes, function comes first, but you'll probably find pride in workmanship will also play into your loading habits soon enough!;)

Rick C

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I agree with the points that Rick posted, another thing I will add as far as the corrosion is that locking your rounds in a ziplock bag after handling them is never a good idea. The sweat from your hands alone can cause that amount of corrosion if locked in a petri dish. The one other thing I notice is that your crimp on those rounds is a roll crimp, the case mouth is rolled into the bullet. Auto feeding pistols headspace on the case mouth, those rounds will not headspace properly and you will be firing off your extractor which is not good for you or the gun. Accuracy will also suffer if a round does not headspace correctly. Use a good taper crimp on your rounds for an autoloader. A proper taper crimp should be able to shave wax from the side of a candle, kind of like grating cheese.

Here is a pic of three different bullets loaded with taper crimps and using a good belling to properly square up and seat the bullets. The coated lead bullet on the far left is a .356" in diameter, the others are at .355" but they still all ended up looking the same.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Wow, that is a bad corrosion problem. I fight humidity here in south Florida but I have not seen anything like that in just 2.5 weeks. I believe sealing the rounds in plastic kept moisture in contact with the rounds contributing to the corrosion. I also believe there may be some contamination on the surface of the rounds or fumes in the air that was trapped inside the bag.

I can tell you what I do to avoid problems. When I process the brass I leave a slight coating of brass cleaner/sizing lube on the shells to prevent corrosion. This comes as a result of tumbling in media with brass polish and residual lube from sizing and then tumbling. I change about 1/3 of the media every so often to keep it fresh. I store the brass in airtight plastic containers in the house in a/c until I need them for loading. They stay bright and shiny for months.

Bullets I look at when purchased and if they are not shiny and sealed in plastic I tumble them with extra polish and then seal in Tupperware in the garage for loading.

My loaded ammo is stored in retail ammo boxes re-labeled but not airtight in any way. They are in the house in the a/c. Over time, say a year, the loaded rounds will loose their shine and become dull brass looking but no corrosion. :D

 

[erreertt]

Thanks everyone. Southern illinois. Im using a lee progressive so I can adjust the powder/expanding die for abwider mouth. But as far as the seating and crimp die all I can do is move it up and down im not sure how I change the type of crimp. Im still new at reloading. Would making the oal longer do it? Right now those are 1.100 but ive been wanting to bring it out to 1.125 or something bigger. They seem to small to me and federal and winchester are in the 1.14 range

 

[erreertt]

Also rick you said my rounds were not pretty :( that hurts. Jk. Do you mean as far as my brass not shiny or my gopher being choked. what do you suggest to fix the appearance all I do as of now is an hr or so tumble in frankford arsenal media.

 

[erreertt]

Also the green powder coated bullet is a dumm6 rd I was setting the oal for another test batch ... a thin ring of metal peeled off the brass im guessing from adjusting and putting it through the die 3-4 times. Lee pro 1000 stock 9mm die set that came with it

Edit- well idk it looks primed in that pic those may not be the dummy rds... could it just be me using the same case 3 times during test? Im saving my purchased brass for mass reloading. Reusing my wwb and range pickup for now

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Erreertt, if your seating/crimp die doesn't have an separate adjustable crimp ring then it's height position is your crimp location. Therefore the die will have to be adjusted up to backoff on the crimp. 1.100" is rather short for round nose bullets. I do a plunk test to find my length and backoff about .015" from the found length or load to 1.160" or so if the found length is more than 1.169" plus the .015 that I backoff. Those rounds that I pictured are loaded at 1.160" because the ogive was far enough back to allow my standard. I don't use load lengths in manuals; those are normally bullet specific pressure based minimum lengths and may not function (load properly from a magazine with ease) in any given gun. HP and most flat nose bullets need to be loaded shorter because the ogive of the bullet is forward. I load Hornady XTP/HAP HP 9mm bullets to a 1.075" OAL and Berry's 9mm flat nose to 1.065" OAL because of the found lengths in my plunk test.

 

[erreertt]

Well if youve ever bought a lee pro 1000 there is no manual just a few papers with really no info.. with those and lees youtube the die is set by moving the die its self and tightening it then there is a minor screw adjustment that you havr at a setpoint while you adjusted the main die then you can move that screw to do small movements

 

[erreertt]

And sorry like I said im a noob reloader. What is a plunk test

 

[Cheesewhiz]

And sorry like I said im a noob reloader. What is a plunk test

It's easy, just take a fired case without sizing it and insert the bullet that you plan to load very lightly and high into the case. Using the removed barrel of your pistol just push the now mock round into the barrel chamber and pull it out and measure it's "found" length. do this several times just to make sure of your finding is consistent at that length and either subtract about .015" and make that your target length or if that found length is greater than 1.185" just load within a reasonable SAMMI spec for 9mm the max length is 1.169", I will load that at around 1.160" or maybe a little less.

 

[erreertt]

Thanks. Never knew that I struggled with oal for a month before I bought my reloading setup because I couldn't figure out or find any good info on it my Lyman wad saying 1.06 and my winchesters were 1.15- 1.16x

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Thanks. Never knew that I struggled with oal for a month before I bought my reloading setup because I couldn't figure out or find any good info on it my Lyman wad saying 1.06 and my winchesters were 1.15- 1.16x

Just make sure you test with every different type and make of bullet that you use. I've found some brands of round nose bullets be as much as .050" different from some other brand. Don't get cocky, the look of the bullet isn't a point of the ogive. Careful is the way, learn slowly, several manuals are a good thing for comparison.

...and if it doesn't feel or seem right, it probably isn't.

 

[erreertt]

Thanks. Yeah I noticed that the other day just didnt realize it. I thought someone messed with my reloader when I did my first bayou powder coat it was wayy off . I always check my powder and oal the first few rounds after I prime the powder dump several times. And then check oal every handful I put out

 

[erreertt]

I need a good manual I dont care for Lyman 48th there is not really much info just hundreds of background info pages then recipe pages with very limited 9x19 pistol recipes

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I need a good manual I dont care for Lyman 48th there is not really much info just hundreds of background info pages then recipe pages with very limited 9x19 pistol recipes

Every powder manufacturer has an online guide for their powders. You will get the most up to date info there. ...but always double check any load you get in case there is a typo or something. :D

http://www.accuratepowder.com/
http://www.hodgdon.com/ (IMR and Winchester)
http://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx
http://www.ramshot.com/

 

[erreertt]

And sorry like I said im a noob reloader. What is a plunk test

It's easy, just take a fired case without sizing it and insert the bullet that you plan to load very lightly and high into the case. Using the removed barrel of your pistol just push the now mock round into the barrel chamber and pull it out and measure it's "found" length. do this several times just to make sure of your finding is consistent at that length and either subtract about .015" and make that your target length or if that found length is greater than 1.185" just load within a reasonable SAMMI spec for 9mm the max length is 1.169", I will load that at around 1.160" or maybe a little


Well I couldnt do this with my coated they are still .355 but they will not fit. I tried a few bellings anf size and billing but it either wouldnt fit or too loose and it would stay when I pulled out. Alot of the brass was too fat and very tight in chamber I had to use needle nose pliers to pull out.

The extreme plated worked well as far as getting it in a fired case. But I couldnt get any readings it would come out like 1.2 or else it would stay in barrel

 

[Jimbo357mag]

The other way to find your best OAL cartridge length would be to dummy load ( no powder or primer) 3 or 4 rounds of slightly different lengths and color the bullets with black magic marker. Load and eject them in the gun one at the time getting longer as you go until you see rifling marks on the bullet and then back up to the next shorter round without marks and then measure the length. This would be your max OAL for your gun.

 

[Bucks Owin]

STICK WITH LOADED OVERALL LENGTH SPECIFIED IN YOUR DATA. SEATING DEPTH AFFECTS PRESSURE...

As to the grungy brass, avoid handling the loaded/cleaned rounds. Skin acids can make pretty cartridges look like hell in short order... :wink:

Dos centavos...

 

[Cheesewhiz]

STICK WITH LOADED OVERALL LENGTH SPECIFIED IN YOUR DATA. SEATING DEPTH AFFECTS PRESSURE...

Bucks, I think you missed my point. I don't know how much that you reload for auto loader pistols but there are many published load OAL's that flat out will not work, not because they're too long but because they are too short. An example is Lyman lists loads for their #356637 cast with an OAL of 1.058", they have done this for years. It is a very popular hardcast 147gr 9mm bullet that most casters sell, at that given length there are very few pistols that will feed that finished round. I mean a snowballs chance in hell of that length working.
I load that same bullet to a length of 1.150" because I determined that length with a plunk test and it works always. The powder loads I use for it are typically the upper range of the listed data that Lyman shows but other manuals may list a higher weight in powder at a longer length. I don't do stupid but I can extrapolate a fair amount and do chrono new loads and check signs of over pressure with a good eye. I'm not a hack and I appreciate your concern but I don't recommend going out of bounds. I do advocate using your brain and I will always council a new loader to stay safe. Going longer than published data is a safe act with fast and medium burn powders for handguns as long as it is determined that finished length will feed, chamber with some bullet clearance, fire and extract and eject properly

 

[Bucks Owin]

Yeah, I understand, just sayin...A bullet that engages the rifling when chambered will raise pressure as will a bullet seated too deep. So can changes in primer, case etc...All basic stuff known to most...

My aim was to encourage a newbie reloader to strictly follow the data recipe with no "tinkering" until he gains experience. That's all... :wink:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I also understand your points and I do appreciate them. It is tough trying to help out people over the web. I cringe when someone tells some new guy to just get a manual and read it, it sounds mean but I do agree with the sentiment.
Although I find many of manual owners, even fairly experienced ones, that skip the front sections of their manuals and go straight for the loads part. You can tell when they really don't understand headspacing and chamber/rifling clearance.

 

[erreertt]

Well yeah I was getting tired of my crimp rolling in and sometimes shaving a sliver off the case I broke down and took all 3 dies out redone everyone with leeprecisioninc youtube. Videos I did over look a few details on the expanding and the seating crimp die. I probably had them right to begin with but fine tuning I wasnt really thinking of them. Now its expanding properly and where I was kind of right where the seating crimp die didnt have a crimp adjustment just a seating adjustment and a fine tune seating adjustment the main die had to be adjusted then the finetune then back the finetune out a half turn and the main in a half turn. All my movements had pushed the main die in too far so it was over crimping. I think im on the right track now

 

[erreertt]

Before. After

 

[erreertt]

I know im a noob. But I do do alot of research before I do anything these problems were more of a press miss understanding than a reloading. Most of the knowledge in a lee pro 1000 is from experience and other people im being dead serious when I say it doesnt come with instructions. More of a part number and price for replacement orders and small paper talking about the powder disks and shell plate nothing in adjusting setting up or anything on the dies.


What I have found out is the primer feed system on it is cool and works well with 30+ primers but try to make 10 rounds and you are jamming primers under the shell plate and not reloading. And then powder disk papers are nowhere near accurate, the disks are as they stay on measurement every once in a while .1 off but nowhere near what the book says ... I have to use my 5.3 grain disk for 4.4grain ... the one that listed 4.6 was pushing 3.9. This is on unique I have 2.5lbs left before I break out the imr

 

[Galaxiedan]

The instructions for setting the dies up comes with each set of Lee dies

 

[erreertt]

My dies came in the die plate screwed all the way down ... no instructions

 

[Galaxiedan]

http://leeprecision.com/instructions.html

Above are the instructions for lee dies and presses

I use a Lee Turret press and I'm not real familiar with the differences in the powder setup and primer dispenser setup but I do know that the "discs" are not meant to throw the grains listed on them with every powder as they measure volume not weight. If your lucky it will work out close. Most people that use the discs have a load figured out and trial and error which disc works best for there powder and grains.

I just bought the adjustable charge bar from lee that replaces the discs with a micrometer adjustable hole. For $10 I don't know why they still use the goofy discs.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/150005/lee-auto-disk-adjustable-powder-charge-bar?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

[erreertt]

yeah i know the disks are in volumes . it came with a paper saying what hole on each disk was suppose to spit out weight on some different powder brands