Real Ivory

[hdxr750]

Ok, I'm aware that there are some Max wts. placed on what your now permitted to sell. Less strict if sold within the State you reside in (I'm not intending to get into all the Rules). My question is this, Are you allowed to give some away? ie: you would like to sell a Revolver that has a value of $500.00 with a nice pair of Walnut Stocks. But if same revolver with Elephant Ivory was to have a value of $800.00. So your ad reads, Model 38 S&W has Walnut & Ivory stocks, $800.00, first I'll take it wins. Is that ok?

 

[GunnyGene]

The problem is with the ivory, not the gun. Violates an international treaty & US law if you sell it, give it away, or merely have it in your possession and the feds find out about it. They will likely confiscate it, unless you have the proper paperwork per the Lacey Act & CITES. See this: https://www.fws.gov/international/travel-and-trade/ivory-ban-questions-and-answers.html

 

[Cholo]

Makes you almost want to go and tranquilize an elephant for the ivory, or Gary Busey :mrgreen:

 

[Robb Barnes]

https://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/questions-and-answers-african-elephant-4d-final-rule.pdf

 

[GunnyGene]

Makes you almost want to go and tranquilize an elephant for the ivory, or Gary Busey :mrgreen:

Tell you what, if I had any ivory I'd keep my big mouth shut about it. I certainly wouldn't advertise it for sale unless I had a lawyer on retainer and all the correct paperwork. If I ever did sell, trade, or give away any undocumented ivory, it would be in the back room of some old run down gas station out in the desert. Same goes for certain exotic hardwoods, which is a particular interest of mine.

You're better off dealing drugs than ivory. :shock:

 

[powder smoke]

Got a carving I acquired from my mom, she got it in Montreal in 68 at the EXPO.
She bought from one of the Pavilions from Africa. Is that legal to own? Thing is
beautiful. No paperwork. ps

 

[GunnyGene]

Got a carving I acquired from my mom, she got it in Montreal in 68 at the EXPO.
She bought from one of the Pavilions from Africa. Is that legal to own? Thing is
beautiful. No paperwork. ps

Maybe, maybe not. See the link I posted up thread. The thing is that unless you have some documentation of when and where it was acquired, the feds would confiscate it. And you'd play hell getting it back. Documentation required has to provide a trail back to the elephant that it was harvested from and when that elephant was killed. If you can't establish it was taken prior to any of the following, you lose.

Specimens (e.g., elephant ivory, hair or leather) considered pre-Act may be exempt from standard prohibitions on import or export. To qualify as pre-Act, a specimen must:

Have been held in captivity or in a controlled environment prior to December 28, 1973, or prior to the date of first listing under the ESA (June 14, 1976 for the Asian elephant; May 12, 1978 for the African elephant); and

Such holding or use and any subsequent holding or use was not in the course of a commercial activity.

Good luck with that. :roll:

 

[RSIno1]

We have about 100 small carvings my parents bought in Alaska while stationed there in WWII. We have no documentation but some awards my parentss got for displaying it a county fair in MI after the war. My sister was going to take some a few months ago to an Antiques Roadshow taping in Palm Springs. I told her just to leave it home due to the new regs and uncertainty of what could happen to it. Even though it's Walrus and some raw Mastedon I could see some "federal expert" who can't read saying ivory is ivory and the rule applies to everything.

 

[GunnyGene]

We have about 100 small carvings my parents bought in Alaska while stationed there in WWII. We have no documentation but some awards my parentss got for displaying it a county fair in MI after the war. My sister was going to take some a few months ago to an Antiques Roadshow taping in Palm Springs. I told her just to leave it home due to the new regs and uncertainty of what could happen to it. Even though it's Walrus and some raw Mastedon I could see some "federal expert" who can't read saying ivory is ivory and the rule applies to everything.

There are many sources of "ivory", including vegetable ivory (comes from the inner seed of a S.American palm), and it can be very difficult to tell them apart. Even fake ivory is often mistaken for real. Sometimes the only way to tell what animal or vegetable it came from is chemical or DNA analysis. So yeah, you were right to advise your sister to leave it home. The Feds default position is "confiscate now, sort it out later". And later may mean never. :x

 

[Ruger45]

So if I am reading this right you can not buy a gun with ivory grips? Unless it has say a factory letter stating it was made and shipped with ivory in 1957

 

[Robb Barnes]

If I decide to sell one of my ivory gripped guns which I have letters from the supplier stating it is in fact from a previous ban source AND it meets the rest of the exception guidelines I will do so and not worry about it. That is why you still see Colt custom shop SAA guns for sale on Gunbroker but not unattached sets of ivory for sale. As far as owning it, nothing in the rules pfocludes me from retaining the ivory I already own but mine is all attached to guns or knives.

 

[GunnyGene]

So if I am reading this right you can not buy a gun with ivory grips? Unless it has say a factory letter stating it was made and shipped with ivory in 1957

Sure you can. Just read this story from last year first. Then decide if you want to risk it.

The point is that once the Feds get their hands on it you likely never see it again.

United States Destroys Confiscated Elephant Ivory in Times Square

Encourages Other Countries to Follow Suit, Amplifies Global Call to End Wildlife Trafficking
6/19/2015
Last edited 4/26/2016

NEW YORK – U.S. Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell today joined U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) Director Dan Ashe and other leaders to destroy more than one ton of confiscated elephant ivory in New York's Times Square, sending a clear message that the United States will not tolerate wildlife crimes that threaten to wipe out the African elephant and a host of other species around the globe. The crush was conducted in partnership with the State of New York, the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) and New York State Senator Brad Hoylman (Manhattan).

Secretary Jewell, who serves as chair of the White House Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking, Director Ashe and thousands of onlookers witnessed an industrial rock crusher, generously donated by Powerscreen, crush raw and carved ivory tusks and statues. The event was the latest in a series of actions by the Obama Administration designed to crack down on both the demand and supply that feeds international poaching and wildlife trafficking rings.

“Today's ivory crush serves as a stark reminder to the rest of the world that the United States will not tolerate wildlife crimes, especially against iconic and endangered animals,” said Secretary Jewell. “The message is loud and clear: This Administration will stop the poachers in their tracks, stop the profits and work with our international partners to protect our global natural heritage.”

The Times Square ivory crush builds on momentum generated by the FWS's initial destruction of six tons of contraband ivory in November 2013. Since then, nine governments have followed suit to destroy ivory. Campaigns to reduce demand for ivory domestically and overseas and to strengthen international laws and enforcement have further elevated the issue of wildlife trafficking globally.

In July 2013, President Barack Obama signed an executive order to combat wildlife trafficking. The order established an interagency Task Force and charged it with developing a National Strategy for Combatting Wildlife Trafficking. With input from an advisory council of experts on wildlife trafficking, the Task Force set forth a robust government approach that focuses on three key objectives to stop wildlife trafficking: strengthening enforcement, reducing demand for illegally traded wildlife, and expanding international cooperation.

“Regardless of their country of origin, we all lose if elephants, rhinos, tigers and other iconic animals disappear. The only way we will save them is together through a concerted global effort to end the scourge of wildlife trafficking and the devastation it brings to these animals,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe. “Today, the United States underscored its commitment to winning this fight, and we call on all nations to join us by destroying their confiscated ivory stockpiles, enacting and enforcing strong regulations protecting wildlife from illegal trade, and reducing demand.”

“Under the leadership of Governor Cuomo, New York has taken a stand against a dangerous and cruel industry by strengthening criminal and civil penalties for ivory buyers and sellers whose actions are endangering elephant populations worldwide,” said New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Commissioner Joe Martens of New York's 2014 law banning the sale of both elephant and mammoth ivory. “New York is proud to host today's ivory crush—a clear reminder that we will not allow the illegal ivory trade to continue in the Empire State. I urge other states and nations to follow New York's lead and join us in working to protect these endangered species for generations to come.”

“Today, we are not just crushing illegally poached ivory; we are crushing the bloody ivory market,” said WCS President and CEO Cristián Samper. “We are crushing any hopes by the poachers that they will profit by killing off our Earth's majestic elephants. This international and violent crime is threatening the elephants as well as people and communities, and the United States continues to show great leadership with today's ivory crush in Times Square. Criminals, take notice.”

More: https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/united-states-destroys-confiscated-elephant-ivory-in-times-square

 

[Colonialgirl]

So if I am reading this right you can not buy a gun with ivory grips? Unless it has say a factory letter stating it was made and shipped with ivory in 1957

Sure you can. Just read this story from last year first. Then decide if you want to risk it.

The point is that once the Feds get their hands on it you likely never see it again.

United States Destroys Confiscated Elephant Ivory in Times Square

Encourages Other Countries to Follow Suit, Amplifies Global Call to End Wildlife Trafficking
6/19/2015
Last edited 4/26/2016

NEW YORK – U.S. Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell today joined U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) Director Dan Ashe and other leaders to destroy more than one ton of confiscated elephant ivory in New York's Times Square, sending a clear message that the United States will not tolerate wildlife crimes that threaten to wipe out the African elephant and a host of other species around the globe. The crush was conducted in partnership with the State of New York, the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) and New York State Senator Brad Hoylman (Manhattan).

Secretary Jewell, who serves as chair of the White House Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking, Director Ashe and thousands of onlookers witnessed an industrial rock crusher, generously donated by Powerscreen, crush raw and carved ivory tusks and statues. The event was the latest in a series of actions by the Obama Administration designed to crack down on both the demand and supply that feeds international poaching and wildlife trafficking rings.

“Today's ivory crush serves as a stark reminder to the rest of the world that the United States will not tolerate wildlife crimes, especially against iconic and endangered animals,” said Secretary Jewell. “The message is loud and clear: This Administration will stop the poachers in their tracks, stop the profits and work with our international partners to protect our global natural heritage.”

The Times Square ivory crush builds on momentum generated by the FWS's initial destruction of six tons of contraband ivory in November 2013. Since then, nine governments have followed suit to destroy ivory. Campaigns to reduce demand for ivory domestically and overseas and to strengthen international laws and enforcement have further elevated the issue of wildlife trafficking globally.

In July 2013, President Barack Obama signed an executive order to combat wildlife trafficking. The order established an interagency Task Force and charged it with developing a National Strategy for Combatting Wildlife Trafficking. With input from an advisory council of experts on wildlife trafficking, the Task Force set forth a robust government approach that focuses on three key objectives to stop wildlife trafficking: strengthening enforcement, reducing demand for illegally traded wildlife, and expanding international cooperation.

“Regardless of their country of origin, we all lose if elephants, rhinos, tigers and other iconic animals disappear. The only way we will save them is together through a concerted global effort to end the scourge of wildlife trafficking and the devastation it brings to these animals,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe. “Today, the United States underscored its commitment to winning this fight, and we call on all nations to join us by destroying their confiscated ivory stockpiles, enacting and enforcing strong regulations protecting wildlife from illegal trade, and reducing demand.”

“Under the leadership of Governor Cuomo, New York has taken a stand against a dangerous and cruel industry by strengthening criminal and civil penalties for ivory buyers and sellers whose actions are endangering elephant populations worldwide,” said New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Commissioner Joe Martens of New York's 2014 law banning the sale of both elephant and mammoth ivory. “New York is proud to host today's ivory crush—a clear reminder that we will not allow the illegal ivory trade to continue in the Empire State. I urge other states and nations to follow New York's lead and join us in working to protect these endangered species for generations to come.”

“Today, we are not just crushing illegally poached ivory; we are crushing the bloody ivory market,” said WCS President and CEO Cristián Samper. “We are crushing any hopes by the poachers that they will profit by killing off our Earth's majestic elephants. This international and violent crime is threatening the elephants as well as people and communities, and the United States continues to show great leadership with today's ivory crush in Times Square. Criminals, take notice.”

More: https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/united-states-destroys-confiscated-elephant-ivory-in-times-square

Sheer and ABSOLUTE liberal green weenie stupidity in spades. Sure it may have been "illegal" but you just urinated on the graves of those elephants (and other ivory contributors) when instead it COULD have been AUCTIONED OFF and the Proceeds used for Conservation purposes in the countries where the ivory originates; It might have even lowered the price of Ivory to the point where it was NOT so profitable to hunt it illegally.
Of course our politicians and the green weenies are not very bright about such matters.

 

[GunnyGene]

Sheer and ABSOLUTE liberal green weenie stupidity in spades. Sure it may have been "illegal" but you just urinated on the graves of those elephants (and other ivory contributors) when instead it COULD have been AUCTIONED OFF and the Proceeds used for Conservation purposes in the countries where the ivory originates; It might have even lowered the price of Ivory to the point where it was NOT so profitable to hunt it illegally.
Of course our politicians and the green weenies are not very bright about such matters.

No argument from me on that. I will note tho, that many other countries have been doing the same thing even this year. Kenya, China, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Great Britain, and many more. Just google Ivory destruction. And not all of it is post ban. A great deal of it is 100+ year old antique ivory. They don't give a crap.

It's like a mass book burning from one of those old SciFi movies.

"Elephant Lives Matter", I guess. :roll:

Look at what's being destroyed: This was last year in China.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-ivory-idUSKCN0S90BB20151015

 

[Ruger45]

First thing that came to mind is Hitlers Nazi Germany destroying art. Instead of destroying the ivory maybe say hang a poacher or to.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Tell you what, if I had any ivory I'd keep my big mouth shut about it.

^^ That's the bottom line, folks. ^^

:evil: :evil:

 

[krw]

Only because I'm a standup guy, bring your old ivory xr-3 grips to Tulsa. I will buy you a steak dinner, and give you a 1/5 of 7yr old Jim Beam for each set. I will handle the burden of keeping up with all those ivory grips!!

 

[LSCG]

I am so glad I burned all the Ivory I had. it's terrible, horrible stuff and even in ash form it is causing the death of elephants.

it's not like I needed it anyway, I lost all my guns and knives in a boating accident.