Potentially Damaging?

[ctom3]

I have a box of ammo I worked up 25 years ago using 200 gn. half jacketed hollow points in front of 27 gns. of 296. This is a pretty hot load, but not close to the max of about 28 gns. shown in the powder manual. They sat in the back of the safe for years and I finally decided it was time to burn them and reload some fresh stuff.

I took them to the range yesterday and fired 2 cylinders of them through my SBH. I got good, consistent ignition, accuracy was good and they burned cleanly. However, the cases were really sticky when I tried to eject them. Upon inspection, 11 of the 12 cases were split. Not just a little bit, but abut 3/4 of the case length. Interestingly, the splits all stopped short of the case mouths. The brass was very dull, but there was no visible corrosion inside or out. There were also no pressure signs on the primers. I cannot help but think that the pressure is okay, but there has been case wall weakening.

I stopped shooting them after the second cylinder and I still have 38 unfired rounds. I suppose I could pull the bullets and dump everything else. However, I'd also be happy to fire it off just to get it out of commission. I would certainly be sure that no one is standing close by if I do it. My big concern is will firing 50 rounds of ammo whose hulls will almost surely split do damage to my SBH?

If I pull them, I will use a collet puller and not my inertial one. I hit my pucker factor with the thought of slamming 25 year old ammo that has some kind of problem in an inertial puller.

 

[Cholo]

What caliber are you talking about?

 

[Sam Johnson]

SBH = Super Blackhawk = S 47 = 44 Rem Mag if not modified .

 

[ctom3]

This is an unmodified, new model Super Blackhawk, .44 mag. with 7 1/2" barrel. It has a date of birth of 1979-80. The short version of my original post is I was firing a box of hand loads that I assembled 25 years ago. While they are fairly hot, they are 1 full grain under max published loads and there are no pressure signs on the primers. They are not flattened and no cratering. However, 11 out of the 12 I fired had splt cases. The brass was probably reloaded 4 or 5 times prior to the current lot. I suspect that it has weakened over the years. I would rather burn through the remaining 38 of them than pull bullets and dump the powder and brass. Is there any risk of damaging my handgun if I do this?

 

[J Miller]

Was this new brass or previously fired? What brand?

I've had new brass split like you described on it's first loading.
I've had factory ammo split like that.

If it was new or once fired brass I'm betting you just got a bad batch of brass.

Joe

 

[Cholo]

J Miller, your reading comprehension skills are as bad as mine are tonight. I missed SBH and you missed brass loaded 4x-5x. :lol:

I actually pulled out my old Speer manuals because I know Speer made (makes?) a 1/2 jacket hollow point and couldn't find where 27 grs of 296 was a listed load.

ctom3, if it were me...I'd pull the bullets, toss the powder and brass, and use the primers in reduced loads. You're not me sooo... Sounds like the brass (most likely) or powder deteriorated over time. Load is a bit over max according to my old Speer manuals, but I doubt that's it. I don't recall other maker's 1/2 jacket HP's. I wouldn't shoot them.

 

[ctom3]

Now you made me get up and look at it! It is WW head stamped and was probably reloaded 4-5 times prior to its current load, which has sat in air conditioned storage since July 1986. I am pretty sure about this. I normally get no more than 10 reloads out of my .44 mag brass, partially due to work hardening cause by flaring them, then putting in heavy roll crimps. However, none of these cases split at the mouth. They all split about 3/4 of their length, but the splits all stopped short of the mouth.

 

[ctom3]

J Miller, your reading comprehension skills are as bad as mine are tonight. I missed SBH and you missed brass loaded 4x-5x. :lol:

I actually pulled out my old Speer manuals because I know Speer made (makes?) a 1/2 jacket hollow point and couldn't find where 27 grs of 296 was a listed load.

ctom3, if it were me...I'd pull the bullets, toss the powder and brass, and use the primers in reduced loads. You're not me sooo... Sounds like the brass (most likely) or powder deteriorated over time. Load is a bit over max according to my old Speer manuals, but I doubt that's it. I don't recall other maker's 1/2 jacket HP's. I wouldn't shoot them.

Ok Cholo, you now made me get off the couch and climb the stairs to dig out my old archived loading manuals! I pulled out my old Hornady manual that shows a max load of 28.5 grains of 296 for the bullets I used. I then cross checked it with my old Speer #10 manual and it showed min. of 26 grains and max of 28 of 296 for their version of the bullet. These were the manuals I used when I loaded them and should be accurate for the powder I was using at the time. So I should be okay at 27, assuming that the powder has not seriously degraded.

I do not know if it is the powder or weakened brass, but it is very reasonable to assume that if 11 out of the first 12 split, the remaining 38 will do the same. As we all know, the SBH is incredibly stout, so I am not particularly concerned about catastrophic failure. However, could repeated case splitting result in lesser damage, such as some degree of gas cutting?

Cholo, more precisely to your point, the wise thing to do is pull the bullets, deactivate the primers, toss the brass and use the powder for fertilizer. Ultimately, my common sense kicks in, so that is what I will do. However, as an academic point, what is the potential for damage to cylinder bores, forcing cone, etc. with repeated case splits on heavy (but not excessive) loads?

BTW, I do have fun shooting noisy, big recoil loads. That is part of my desire to go ahead and shoot them. When I fired the first 12 a couple of days ago, the range master came over and confirmed what I was shooting. I guess they are more used to hearing the little 9mm's so popular with the kids these days!

 

[UmpquaCharlie]

Pull them...recycle the brass, reload the bullets into new cases and powder the lawn. Why destroy or harm such a beautiful gun?

 

[Cholo]

I have a Speer #10 manual in front of me and the only 1/2 jacket bullet they have is a 225gr. I don't have a clue where Hornady fits in the scheme of things if you're using a Speer bullet. I think I gave you solid advice in my last post. Let's put it this way:

You're getting laid on a regular basis. The condoms (brass) you used in '85 worked just great. You used them recently and they split. Either you became "Bob, the Enzite Man", or it's time to toss the condoms. Entiendo?

 

[cedarcreek]

I would get rid of them. Not worth it for only 38 rounds. Without knowing what was causing the case failure I wouldn't want to mix any of the components with new loads.

 

[41 Magnum]

28 Gr. of WW296, behind a Hornady 200 Gr. XTP, is my deer hunting load. I've used that load for many years, in all my Super's, & never encountered a problem of any kind. I have many many .44 Mag cases still in use that were bought in the early 1970's, & still lookin good. Most of the ones I retire, are retired because of mouth splits. In fact, most of those are marked & trimmed to .44 Spl. length, & continue in service for some time after that with lighter loads. I have Rem., Win., P.M.C., Speer, & Starline brass that are really old, perhaps some may even go back into the 1960's.
I wish I could help, but that just hasn't happened to me yet.

I've only ever had one exciting event with split cases. My Son-in-law borrowed one of the the Super's one afternoon & grabbed the wrong box of ammo out of the safe, & took it to the range & fired six rounds of .41 Mag's. out of it !!!! They did split, Big time !!!!!!!!! He is no longer allowed to borrow anything, un-supervised !!

 

[mattsbox99]

Pretty normal to have old brass split when its been sitting for many years. The only way to prevent it is to anneal your cases before loading. Brass hardens up quite a bit over time.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

11 out of 12 split? Not good. Time to get rid of the rest of them by pulling the bullets, throw the powder on the lawn, and shoot the primers as noise makers or soak the shells in oil for a few days to de-activate the primers. 8) 8)

...jimbo

 

[ctom3]

mattsbox99, that is kind of what I am thinking.

Yeah, everyone's right. I had decided in my last post not to shoot them, but was simply curious what kind of damage was possible. Besides not wanting to damage my revolver, there is no sense in wasting $5.00 worth of bullets. I just finished pulling them with my kinetic puller and scattering the powder in my front yard. It wasn't dusty or acrid smelling, so deterioration shouldn't have been particularly significant.

They are Hornady bullets and the catalog number on their old box matches the one given in the load data in my old Hornady book. Also, my old reloading logs showed that I had actually loaded up a little hotter, in this gun, then backed down to the 27 gns. I referred to the Speer data just as cross confirmation.

I did get good, even ignition on the ones I fired, so I guess I'll throw 5 or 6 grains of Unique on top of the old magnum primers and stick some semi wadcutters I have on top of them. It should give me a handful of nice, easy range loads that shouldn't be too stressful on the brass. I may then try to anneal them. Maybe I can get a few more uses out of them that way.

Thanks for your replies!

 

[ctom3]

Sorry, repeated post...

 

[Cholo]

Jimbo, deactivate the primers? I've reused a few with no negative affects. Am I missing something? It's a serious question, that's all.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Jimbo, deactivate the primers? I've reused a few with no negative affects. Am I missing something? It's a serious question, that's all.

Re-use a brittle case?? Be sure to keep them separate from the other 'good' cases.

If you have some brittle cases with un-spent primers in them you want to either shoot them as noise makers, in a safe direction of course, or de-activate and remove the primers before throwing them away and recycling the brass. Oil will de-activate the primers, long term, better than anything else. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[Cholo]

Jimbo, I've "pipped" out a few primers and reused them with no ill affect. Not talking about brass.

 

[wheezengeezer]

The brass is just brittle.May not even hurt the cylinder.To be safe I would salvage the bullets and even the powder and use another case.I have even pushed out a lot of live primers and reused them.Some think that is akin to walkin on lit dynomite.BS.