Picked up an RPR, shooting extremely high

[lolgoat]

Hey guys. I've picked up a new RPR and threw aero precision ultralight scope mounts and a leupold LRP VX-3i 6.5-20x50 scope on it.

I have taken it out to the range twice, shooting at 100 yards. The first time it was shooting so high I had to aim 3 feet in front of the target on the ground to hit the center. Figuring I screwed something up, I went home, disassembled the scope mount and took off the scope. I bought scope levels and a proper armorers torque wrench and got everything to absolute spec.

Today, I took the gun out again, and it still shoot WAY high. My shooting mount is stable and I have the gun properly tucked into my shoulder pocket. It shouldn't be bouncing up high enough to offset the POI at 100 yards by 4+ feet.

I'm at a loss. A lot of people I have heard say that you should use the highest AR scope mounts possible, but I have some of the best mounted on my gun and I'm consistently 4+ feet off the the POA at 100 yards. Something is terribly wrong and I'm having a hard time believing it's my shooting. What could possibly be wrong?


My next guess is to replace the scope mounts and get it as low as possible. What scope mounts do you guys use for your RPR? I'm fairly new to precision rifle shooting, so I'm open to any suggestions.


EDIT:

I was just thinking, what if the aero precision mounts are not flat, so the 20 MOA rail on the RPR + whatever MOA the rings are would cause my POI to be way high at 100 yards?

 

[mswill]

You didn't mention "bore sighting"....so it might be a simple fix. There are many ways to do it, here's one method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF07A7HaR38

Just search up a few different methods and pick the one you are set up to use.

 

[JFB]

I have used a 1.000" tube in the rings to determine the scope mount angle also

in this example I was filling the scope base to set 10MOA for a 1022

I would suggest first setting your scope to center by;
1) count turns and put in the middle
2) verify center using the mirror method

now use a short range target, say 25 yard, and see what differance from POI is from POA
using your ballistic curve for your ammo, your scope height above the barrel bore, you can determine your ring angles.

then figure your needed adjustment to zero for your desired range and verify that is within the adjustment range of the scope
the Leupold LRP VX-3i 6.5-20x50 should have a +/- 40 MOA adjustment range so I would think it should be able to negate a 20 MOA mounting angle for a 100 Y zeroing

 

[Matthew Duncan]

Hits high using the iron sights too?

 

[huntsman22]

RPR's don't have irons.....

 

[huntsman22]

is the aero precision ALSO a 20 moa? Did you try to adjust your scope? or just shoot it to see it hit high?

 

[lolgoat]

You didn't mention "bore sighting"....so it might be a simple fix. There are many ways to do it, here's one method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF07A7HaR38

Just search up a few different methods and pick the one you are set up to use.

Thank you for the suggestion. I've been meaning to buy a bore sighter but for some reason i thought I could just shoot the damned thing and zero it off the bench. Guess not :lol:. I'll boresight it this weekend and report back. Should I be boresighting at 25 yards like I've seen in alot of places, or all the way out to 100 yards? The range I go to is outdoor, it might be hard to see a laser at 100 yards.

I have used a 1.000" tube in the rings to determine the scope mount angle also

in this example I was filling the scope base to set 10MOA for a 1022

I would suggest first setting your scope to center by;
1) count turns and put in the middle
2) verify center using the mirror method

now use a short range target, say 25 yard, and see what differance from POI is from POA
using your ballistic curve for your ammo, your scope height above the barrel bore, you can determine your ring angles.

then figure your needed adjustment to zero for your desired range and verify that is within the adjustment range of the scope
the Leupold LRP VX-3i 6.5-20x50 should have a +/- 40 MOA adjustment range so I would think it should be able to negate a 20 MOA mounting angle for a 100 Y zeroing

Why didn't I think of checking my scope ring level like that.

I emailed Aero Precision and their scope mounts are flat, so that's a good thing.

is the aero precision ALSO a 20 moa? Did you try to adjust your scope? or just shoot it to see it hit high?

I didn't open the zero lock and try to bring it all the way down - I figured the scope would come at "factory zero" (the lowest it can go). As such, bringing my reticle "lower" is impossible since my scope elevation is bottomed out.

As mentioned in the above quote, I got an email back today and it turns out the AP mounts are 0 MOA.

 

[JFB]

if you assUme the scope came from the leupold "zeroed", I would assuME that would be in the center of adjustment. (but why assume, measure)

If the scope was mounted on a 0 MOA rail, then the POA would ALWAYS be above the POI the distance from the scope to barrel plus the bullet drop.

Since the Ruger has a 20 MOA rail, the POA will be about 20" BELOW the "laser" bore at 100 yard
the POI will be that 20" minus the bullet drop.
(don't know what the vertical distance is for 3 feet in front of the target)

For example, here is a 223 drop graft with the 0 and 20 moa POA lines added.
the thin red would be "bore sighted" at 25 yard

Are you using a bipod? if so, is it on the barrel?

 

[gunzo]

Start at 25 yards with a big target & adjust the "zero locks" as you call them to bring bullet impact to your aiming point. Then... advance to 100 yards & fine tune.

New Leupolds almost always come with instuctions, they may be worth a look.

 

[kmoore]

I don't know what to say, your sure are going through all kinds of mounting and sighting in and it sounds like you don't have a clue. Why not take it to a gun shop, let someone who knows what there doing check the mount, make sure it is right for what your doing, bore sight it. Learn how to adjust the scope. Always start firing at 25 yards with every rifles first time to range, just that will save you ammo and heartaches. Maybe take a friend who knows how to shoot to help out. You can ask questions on here but, I wonder if your even asking the right ones, does not sound like it to me.

 

[mohavesam]

http://ct-precision.com/

you'll only wonder why you waited so long.

 

[lolgoat]

I don't know what to say, your sure are going through all kinds of mounting and sighting in and it sounds like you don't have a clue. Why not take it to a gun shop, let someone who knows what there doing check the mount, make sure it is right for what your doing, bore sight it. Learn how to adjust the scope. Always start firing at 25 yards with every rifles first time to range, just that will save you ammo and heartaches. Maybe take a friend who knows how to shoot to help out. You can ask questions on here but, I wonder if your even asking the right ones, does not sound like it to me.

Y'ouch.

I've been shooting for a long time, I've never shot in excess of 300 yards, and never had this kind of mounting issue before and I've scoped plenty of AR-15s and similar type rifles. Every AR-15 I've put a scope on was "slap and go", maybe it was luck, or because the rail was flat. Looking back at it, and doing more research, at 100 yards 20 MOA would put me off my target considerably. FWIW I always sighted the AR-15s at 25 yards and didn't think about it afterwards since 5.56 is a fairly flat shooting round and 25 yards functions as a zero at 100. This has certainly been a learning experience and I've paid my tuition in boxes of .308. I'm not sure why I thought I should do things differently.

Call it amateur hour, but this is the first time I've ever had to think hard about zeroing a rifle, and also the reason I've been so confused. Seems these precision rifles are a different beast. The biggest shock was I didn't understand what a 20 MOA mount even did.

I'll be boresighting it properly and taking it back out to the range to do things right. This topic has actually been a lot of help clearing up my ignorance on sighting a precision rifle. I guess I bought too much gun for just learning how to reach out and touch things at longer ranges.

You can ask questions on here but, I wonder if your even asking the right ones, does not sound like it to me.

I'll keep this in mind, maybe I'm not operator enough for a place like this.

 

[JFB]

... because the rail was flat....

a flat rail caused me the most expense problem I ever had scoping a rifle.

the Kahles ZF84 6x42 had such a limit amount of adjustment, with the 0 MOA H&K claw mount, I was not able to use the range setting turrent. had to machine offset ring inserts to give me about 10 MOA to "zero" the scope

 

[mohavesam]

lolgoat,
Remember all 10/22s do not mate the barrel and receiver precisely, If it were a precision machine, they could not make a margin on a gun so cheaply sold!
Consider the barrel V-block orientation, tension screws, and sloppy receiver-barrel fit.

Some of the most-accurate builds I've seen first hand involved bedding the heavy steel barrel a few inches out of the gate, and "free-floating" the receiver, among other things. Others thread the receiver to the barrel. Never saw great guns with cheapo aluminum rails, though some have had luck.

Good steel Burris or Leupold munts & rings and a perfect crown dispell variables too.

Call randy at CPC. :!:

 

[gunzo]

lolgoat,
Remember all 10/22s do not mate the barrel and receiver precisely, If it were a precision machine, they could not make a margin on a gun so cheaply sold!
Consider the barrel V-block orientation, tension screws, and sloppy receiver-barrel fit.

Some of the most-accurate builds I've seen first hand involved bedding the heavy steel barrel a few inches out of the gate, and "free-floating" the receiver, among other things. Others thread the receiver to the barrel. Never saw great guns with cheapo aluminum rails, though some have had luck.

Good steel Burris or Leupold munts & rings and a perfect crown dispell variables too.

Call randy at CPC. :!:

http://ct-precision.com/

you'll only wonder why you waited so long.

Pretty sure the OP is asking about a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308. Saw no mention of a 10/22.

 

[kmoore]

Well, I take it by what you say, the 1st post showed lack of common sense sighting in a new gun and lack of knowledge of scope adjustments. Now now say you have done lots of ARs, and mounted lots Okay.
From my reading you did not express any of that so, I attempted to get you the best, fast help as possible.
On the web and this forum, to many people ask questions in a way, that shows they have made up a way to fix a problem but, they may not know the real problem.
So, with your knowledge, and range experience I am sure you will get this issue fixed. I will not give any more advice.

 

[RoninPA]

The RPR has a 20 MOA base straight from the factory. The means if you have a scope on it that centered in the middle of it's vertical range, it will shoot 20 inches high at 100 yds. A 20 MOA base is typically used for long range shooting (out past 600 yds).

Here's a pretty good explanation in laymans terms: https://warnescopemounts.com/20moa-explained/

Here is what EGW (Evolution Gun Works) says:

What is M.O.A?
M.O.A. stands for Minute of Angle. 20 M.O.A. or Minutes of Angle is equal to 1/3 of one degree.

Which M.O.A. do I need to purchase?
We recommend 0 MOA for shorter distance shooting (0-600 yards). See your scope manual to determine the amount of elevation adjustment or range you have. For long distance shooting we recommend 20 MOA (600-1000 yards). The 20 MOA angled downward mount will allow you to see and zero where your bullet will strike over a long distance like 1000 yards.

How far will Zero or 20 M.O.A. allow me to shoot?
Zero M.O.A. is generally used for shooting 0 – 600 Yards depending on your scope and caliber
20 M.O.A. is generally used for shooting 600 – 1000 + yards depending on your scope and caliber
At 100 yards, one M.O.A. is about 1" (slightly more).
The scope mount cants downward at 20 M.O.A., which will allow you to zero your gun at a greater distance.
At 600 yards, a 20 M.O.A mount will point the scope down .120" or point the barrel up depending on your perspective.
One M.O.A. = 1" at 100 yards or 6 inches at 600 yards. 20 M.O.A. = 200 inches at 1000 yards.

For Example:
At 650 yards with a .308, with your scope centered (middle of adjustment), a 20 M.O.A. mount will be right on.

 

[huntsman22]

All vertical adjustment below your zero is wasted...

 

[JFB]

The RPR has a 20 MOA base straight from the factory. The means if you have a scope on it that centered in the middle of it's vertical range, it will shoot 20 inches high at 100 yds. A 20 MOA base is typically used for long range shooting (out past 600 yds)...

agree 100%

the leupold mentioned advertises it has +/- 40 MOA so if things were right, It should allow for enough adjustment to get down to a 100 yard zero.

I'll repeat recomendation
put the scope in the center of adjustment
shoot a BIG target at 25 yards
using the height scope is above bore and the 25 yard drop for your ammo, calculate your actual mounting MOA.

20MOA at 25 yard is 5.2"
If scope is 2" above the bore and
If the ammo drop at 25 yards is 0.3"
then the expected POI will be (5.2 - 2 - 0.3 =) 2.9"

IF greater than the the 40 MOA scope adjustment, it won't zero at 100
IF more than +/- 5 MOA from the expected 20 MOA, there is a problem in the mount or the barrel

 

[gunzo]

All vertical adjustment below your zero is wasted...

Quoting Stick eh?
You must be a student of his. :wink: