Old Vaquero model question
- Thread starter SHOOTER
- Start date
CraigC
Hawkeye
They've made them in the last year.
SHOOTER said:
It says New Vaquero on the frame, but has a 59-prefix serial number from the original series. Something's funny there.
SHOOTER said:
I notice this in the extended description . . .
"The Original Large Frame Serial Numbers had 2 digits, a space bar (-) and 5 additional numbers, I.e. 59-01248. The NEW MODEL (Smaller Frame Version) Vaquero Model Serial Numbers start with three (3) numbers, space bar (-) and 5 additional numbers, such as 510-01248."
Also . . .
"THE PICTURES OF FIREARMS I POST ON GUNBROKER.COM ARE IN STOCK AND READY FOR DELIVERY. THE ACTUAL FIREARM YOU RECEIVE MAY NOT BE THE ONE PICTURED, BUT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WILL BE THE SERIAL NUMBER. EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE THE SAME."
I'd be wanting actual serial number confirmation if I were interested.
Nope, I see it as he's offering an original two-digit-prefix original Vaquero, but has included a detail roll-mark photo of a similar New Vaquero from his photo files . . . as mentioned in the clarifications I posted above. At least that's how I understand it. It is certainly sloppy advertising, I'll admit.
Like I said, I'd surely check with him on the details before buying. I'd ask for the serial number and what is roll-marked on the left side of the frame.
JMHO :mrgreen:
Like I said, I'd surely check with him on the details before buying. I'd ask for the serial number and what is roll-marked on the left side of the frame.
JMHO :mrgreen:
I'm no expert for sure, but my take on it, is the 59 prefix is a later run, due to demand for the 44 Vaqueros. It's called a NEW Vaquero because it has the reverse indexing cylinder (edited to be more clear) for loading. I think they have been a home run for Ruger, or who ever got them to bring them out. But that's just my take on it. Point of fact there's no point in actually using a small frame gun, because it's not going to hold up. So it's got to be a full size gun.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Bear Paw Jack is correct.
They are "NEW VAQUERO" 44 Mags which all have:
the large size cyl frame, same size as the original "VAQUERO",
the RIPS (Ruger Indexing Pawl System), hence the "NEW VAQUERO" frame roll mark,
59 prefix to the serial #, only mid size cyl frames have 3 digit prefixes,
Super Blackhawk wide spur hammers,
XR3 plowhandle size, 7/16" thick grip frame, or birdshead grip frame,
and I've seen them offered with 3 3/4" and 5 1/2" barrels.
They are "NEW VAQUERO" 44 Mags which all have:
the large size cyl frame, same size as the original "VAQUERO",
the RIPS (Ruger Indexing Pawl System), hence the "NEW VAQUERO" frame roll mark,
59 prefix to the serial #, only mid size cyl frames have 3 digit prefixes,
Super Blackhawk wide spur hammers,
XR3 plowhandle size, 7/16" thick grip frame, or birdshead grip frame,
and I've seen them offered with 3 3/4" and 5 1/2" barrels.
I always defer to experts.
CraigC
Hawkeye
I find no issue with the listing, only in its interpretation.
It's an original large frame Vaquero with a Super Blackhawk hammer. Looks like an XR3-RED to me. Don't know about the reverse indexing pawl. For some stupid reason Ruger decided to stamp these "New Vaquero". Link below.....:roll:
https://ruger.com/products/vaqueroStainless/specSheets/10598.html
It's an original large frame Vaquero with a Super Blackhawk hammer. Looks like an XR3-RED to me. Don't know about the reverse indexing pawl. For some stupid reason Ruger decided to stamp these "New Vaquero". Link below.....:roll:
https://ruger.com/products/vaqueroStainless/specSheets/10598.html
Hondo44
Hawkeye
The reverse indexing pawl is the new design system that makes the New Vaquero, 'NEW'.
Since the gun in the listing and all currently produced 44 mag Vaqueros ALL have the reverse indexing pawl in the recoil shield which is part of the new system, including the new free spin cyl pawl, is therefore why they're roll marked 'NEW VAQUERO'.
Since the gun in the listing and all currently produced 44 mag Vaqueros ALL have the reverse indexing pawl in the recoil shield which is part of the new system, including the new free spin cyl pawl, is therefore why they're roll marked 'NEW VAQUERO'.
CraigC
Hawkeye
Well, that's not the only thing separating the Vaquero from the New Vaquero. IMHO, the frame size is more significant than the RIP and that is what makes the .44Mag version a Vaquero and not a New Vaquero. Once again, every decision Ruger makes regarding the Vaquero/New Vaquero debacle only creates more and more confusion.
Have you handled one and confirmed that it has the reverse indexing pawl?
Have you handled one and confirmed that it has the reverse indexing pawl?
Hondo44
Hawkeye
Craig,
Yes the frame size is certainly a significant difference but doesn't affect the name. Ruger model names are based on engineering design changes which once understood follows the Ruger logic, no confusion. That's why frame size doesn't affect the difference between the original Vaquero and the New Vaquero names.
The Ruger "New Model" is based on the transfer bar design and why there's no NM Vaqueros.
And similar to the flat frame design of the New Model Flattop Blackhawks; same name for both size frames.
Owners I know confirmed the presence of the RIPS in the NV 44 Mag.
Yes the frame size is certainly a significant difference but doesn't affect the name. Ruger model names are based on engineering design changes which once understood follows the Ruger logic, no confusion. That's why frame size doesn't affect the difference between the original Vaquero and the New Vaquero names.
The Ruger "New Model" is based on the transfer bar design and why there's no NM Vaqueros.
And similar to the flat frame design of the New Model Flattop Blackhawks; same name for both size frames.
Owners I know confirmed the presence of the RIPS in the NV 44 Mag.
CDNN has a good deal on the gun right now. Slight difference on the color of the grips.
https://www.cdnnsports.com/rugerr-vaqueror-44-rem-mag-3-75-stainless-talo.html?___SID=U#.XB2XWFVKi70
https://www.cdnnsports.com/rugerr-vaqueror-44-rem-mag-3-75-stainless-talo.html?___SID=U#.XB2XWFVKi70
CraigC
Hawkeye
I don't agree about the frame size splitting the difference. The 50th anniversary .44 Blackhawks were large frame guns with the RIP but no awkwardness with the name. Same for the mid-frame flat-tops. They're all just Blackhawks. "Flat-top", by the way, is a nickname used by shooters and collectors, not Ruger. Sorry but large frame = Vaquero and mid-frame = New Vaquero. So what, if they make the same gun in .45Colt it's okay to call it "New Vaquero" too, just because of the RIP? Then you'll have both medium and large frame .45's called "New Vaquero". That's dumb.
I don't see what the big deal is. People want what they want, and Ruger responds. Some people want to shoot the heavy loads, and some people want a gun that is affordable and feels like the SAA. They want to play cowboy. Nothing wrong with either desire. Pick your pleasure. I've always liked the bigger guns, but used them for CAS, and shooting the heavier loads. Now that I'm getting up there, I like the lighter guns, that don't have the recoil cause I don't feel the need to shoot all those heavy loads. Lots of CAS enjoy the New Vaquero, and the RIPS for when it's time to reload. Ruger made them both available. That's why I like Ruger.
Hondo44
Hawkeye
CraigC said:
Yes, I know you don't agree, that's fine, I don't mind.
The flattop was a collector term for the old model. The new model Flattop has been used by Ruger as official copy.
You're welcome to state your opinion, enjoy it. I just share the Ruger logic for everyone to read. All are free to form their own opinions including you. I don't care to try to change anyone's opinion. We can agree to disagree, that's all.
Rclark said:
That would be correct.
CraigC
Hawkeye
It is confusing to those who don't know and only made worse by Ruger. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but 99.9999% of the discussions about the Vaquero and New Vaquero hinges on frame size and relative strength, usually in reference to what .45Colt loads are appropriate. Not the reverse indexing pawl. Stamping a large frame Vaquero with "New Vaquero" does nothing but add to the confusion, because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Well Craig.... Point is, it doesn't have to make sense :) . Ruger thinks it makes perfect sense to them and they are producing the product. We, as the consumer, just have to 'adjust' and pick our way through the minefield (and complain about it every time the subject comes up :D ) . No sense arguing something that isn't going to 'change'. Thanks Hondo for the other point of view.
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