No 1911 ? :(

[Flash]

I hate to chime in but the Argentine and Brazilian clones are garbage in my opinion. Great 1911's are Les Baer, Kimber, Wilson, Volkmann and a Ruger 1911 won't come close to these.

Brand names ???

Regarding the 'boutique' builders you mention. They SHOULD be good 1911's at the totally ridiculous prices that they charge. Regarding Kimber .... well .... Kimber is Kimber ... the monster cable of 1911's. No matter what you may think, Kimber is probably one of the cheapest built 1911's in existence ... they use more MIM parts than any other 1911 maker (hence the MIMber nickname). You don't get very much for your money with a Kimber.

I'd far rather have a higher end Rock Island Armory or Springfield gun for the same price of ANY Kimber.

I'd still like to hear some brand names of the 1911's that are supposedly 'junk' in your description ....

Where ya from in PA, Flash ???

REV

Just outside Gettysburg Rev. The junk i'm refering to is the Argentine 1911's that they copied under licensing from Colt. The Star is another one but that has no affiliation with Colt. It only resembles a 1911 with perhaps the grip panels being interchangable with Colts but that's about it.
I agree that the Springfield or the Rock Island is a fine handgun and they both do what a Les Baer will do but following that thought process, a Mossberg will do what a Parazzi will do so it's all in what you call junk and what you call great.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

they use more MIM parts than any other 1911 maker (hence the MIMber nickname).
REV

You're the only one who insists on using that around here every chance you get old buddy. :? Your beloved Colts have MIM parts too.

Care to guess how many MIM and/or powdered metal parts are in that new technowonder car you're driving? Way more than you'd like given your distaste for these parts.

Nice derail BTW. Ruger 1911....

 

[hittman]

Rev's not the only one who can't figure just how much more accurate a $2,600 designer gun is than my $400 RIA.

If I use a 1911 to protect myself or my family, will the bad guy be deader quicker because of high polish and checkered wood grips?

I'd suspect that today's entry level 1911's are much more true to the original form than hand fitted, high polished, buffed, chromed, checkered, widgets, etc.

 

[toysoldier]

IMHO We have enough 1911's on the market. What I would love is a Ruger Luger. They would need to keep with the overall design, but some areas could used improved design. Redesigning how the striker set-up would be top on my list.

If it sold for less than $700 OTD, and did not have an internal lock, I would have one in short order.


Charlie

+1!!!
I'd like to see one in .357 Sig. The reliable feeding of the original .30 Luger round, scaled up to .357 magnum performance. The designers could look at the Lahti and Nambu pistols for inspiration, too.

 

[dacaur]

Ruger makes great guns. many of the 1911's on the market arent "great guns"....

Care to list the 'many' 1911's that aren't great, in your opinion ?

I'm just wondering, because I think most 1911's on the market today are pretty darned good imo, and it would be pretty tough to pick a bad one. Sure there can be a bad example here and there, but no really bad ones that I know of.

Care to enlighten me ?

REV

I guess it really depends on your definition of a "great" gun.. for the record, I didnt say a lot of 1911's today are "BAD" guns, I said a lot of them arent "great" guns. IMO, a great gun is one you can trust your life to, and never have to worry about. Its 100% reliable.

Few guns have the right fall into that category, not even all of rugers guns are there. In this world, There are "great guns", there are "good guns", there are "OK guns", and there are "bad guns". The last category is lucky for us pretty sparce... The worst 1911 that I have personal experience with is a taurus. When it was freshly cleaned it was a good gun, but put 100 rounds down the pipe and it started to malfunction. That, to me, is a bad gun.

 

[Rodney72]

I understand the question of why would you want Ruger to add another 1911 to an already crowded market. However, I like Ruger's corporate strategy: built quality guns while undercutting most other companies on price. What would a Ruger 1911 come in at I wonder? Could I buy my first 1911 and get a quality pistol for around $500? The only way to do that now is to get a basic G.I. model (no thanks) or go RIA (maybe).

 

[Flash]

Rev's not the only one who can't figure just how much more accurate a $2,600 designer gun is than my $400 RIA.If I use a 1911 to protect myself or my family, will the bad guy be deader quicker because of high polish and checkered wood grips?I'd suspect that today's entry level 1911's are much more true to the original form than hand fitted, high polished, buffed, chromed, checkered, widgets, etc.

I give up, where did he mention that? Did you ever shoot a M1911 from service issue to see how they shoot?

We are talking about quality vs. junk. Not how fast a handgun kills.

 

[Joni Lynn]

I think that if Ruger was to make a Luger or a 1911 it would be a great gun and be easily identifiable as a Ruger. They would do something to make it uniquely their own.
I'd buy either if they were made available.

 

[hittman]

Hey Rev ~ whadda ya think? Is a designer, high-dollar 1911 decidedly more accurate than a MilSpec Springfield?

Flash ~ no reason to give up. Seems you and I are simply approaching the subject from different directions. Does more expensive always translate into higher quality? Each individual should judge, I suppose.

And no, I've never shot a military issue 1911. That's why I stated "I suspect today's entry level 1911's are much more true to the original form than hand fitted ........". If you or others tell me the WWII issue 1911's were assembled in a Les Baer-like custom shop, I'll take your word for it.

 

[ArmedinAZ]

I think that if Ruger was to make a Luger or a 1911 it would be a great gun and be easily identifiable as a Ruger. They would do something to make it uniquely their own.
I'd buy either if they were made available.

It would be a fine line for Ruger to walk. Ruger fanboys will buy anything but 1911 guys will scream if anything is very far off of the 1911 pattern. I'm not interested in a straight GI pattern pistol but if it strays very much with some "new" feature not interested either. A well constructed ACCURATE pistol and above average trigger with a few of the now normal upgrades will hook me.

And PLEASE no front slide serrations.

 

[Flash]

Hey Rev ~ whadda ya think? Is a designer, high-dollar 1911 decidedly more accurate than a MilSpec Springfield?

Flash ~ no reason to give up. Seems you and I are simply approaching the subject from different directions. Does more expensive always translate into higher quality? Each individual should judge, I suppose.

And no, I've never shot a military issue 1911. That's why I stated "I suspect today's entry level 1911's are much more true to the original form than hand fitted ........". If you or others tell me the WWII issue 1911's were assembled in a Les Baer-like custom shop, I'll take your word for it.

Hitman, I think you have it backwards. Higher quality always translates into more expensive and the cartridge does the work, not the platform.

A M1911 is loose, inaccurate and roughly finished. A custom 1911, depending on the builder, operates smooth as butter, is ungodly accurate and fitted like a Rolex. It's all in what someone likes and is willing to spend their money on.

 

[revhigh]

You're the only one who insists on using that around here every chance you get old buddy. :?

Do you deny it ??

Your beloved Colts have MIM parts too.

True ... the newer Colts do (not as many though, and in the correct places) .... I generally don't recommend them either ,,, except for the GC.

Care to guess how many MIM and/or powdered metal parts are in that new technowonder car you're driving? Way more than you'd like given your distaste for these parts.

A car is a car ... a gun is a gun .... big difference Jeff !

MIM has it's place in production ... Kimber DOES and HAS used it incorrectly. Show me some documentation of Colt MIM parts failing ....

Check out the thread below ....

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?s=00eb3fa01a5ec967b61f8308373ef0ee&t=72119

 

[revhigh]

I think that if Ruger was to make a Luger or a 1911 it would be a great gun and be easily identifiable as a Ruger. They would do something to make it uniquely their own.

And the above statement will explain the reason for it's failure .....

REV

 

[revhigh]

A well constructed ACCURATE pistol and above average trigger with a few of the now normal upgrades will hook me.

And PLEASE no front slide serrations.

That's what I've been preaching for years !!

Oh yeah ... I forgot ... street price of $550-600.

REV

 

[revhigh]

Hey Rev ~ whadda ya think? Is a designer, high-dollar 1911 decidedly more accurate than a MilSpec Springfield?.

In just a few words ... IT DAMN WELL BETTER BE !!!!!!

Keep in mind Mike, I never said the 'boutique' products weren't good or great ... I've always said they're simply NOT WORTH IT, or anywhere NEAR what they try to sell them for.

Got a loaded Baer, Wilson, or RRA for $800-1000 .... I'm in.

I'll pass on Kimber (a new one) at any price. I'm simply not interested. I'd consider a much older Kimber only if I could shoot it first, and then decide.

REV

 

[ArmedinAZ]

Rev, that thread you posted the link to had it's last response in 2004. :shock: Did they have problems? I guess, I wasn't doing handguns way back then. I've been lurking on the Kimber forum at 1911forum for 2 years now and yes people come on and have problems but I honestly can't remember a single broken MIM part in that time. Certainly no epidemic of busted pistols. Kinda like Pennzoil was accused of sludge problems back in the 80s so it sucks forever, or since Pintos exploded Ford sucks forever or Firestone tires stink forever, or since the first SR guns had problems they all suck forever..it takes a long time to overcome a bad rep. Whatever.

We do agree on what kind of Ruger 1911 would make us part with our Geo. Washingtons though. :wink: Ruger has the SR platform sorted out it looks like, hopefully the LC9 will run out of the box, now for the big dog.

 

[dacaur]

I agree that a $2600 1911 isnt $2000 better than a $600 1911, and is unlikely to shoot better than a $1000 1911, but I will also agree that a $900 1911 is almost certain to be better than a $450 1911....

 

[revhigh]

I agree that a $2600 1911 isnt $2000 better than a $600 1911, and is unlikely to shoot better than a $1000 1911, but I will also agree that a $900 1911 is almost certain to be better than a $450 1911....

I'd agree with every one of your above points dacaur. 100%.

It doesn't take much to make a 1911 very, very good. A nice tight lockup, good barrel, and a trigger job generally does it for me. It's not very expensive to make a 1911 shoot great and have a great trigger .... especially when it's being done on a production line.

Regarding the Kimber thread, ArmedinAZ (LOL) I didn't even notice the date ... it was just one of the first that I found when I googled 'Kimber MIM failures'. Maybe they have resolved it since 2004. I guess if they wouldn't have, they wouldn't be around. I have so little interest in them that I really haven't kept up with any of their products. I still feel they're monstrously overpriced for what you get, so they never enter into consideration for me.

I know the original and much older Kimbers were very nice, but it seemed that they lost their way with their initial success, and cheapened and really downgraded their guns. At the same time they cheapened and downgraded, playing off their initial success, they began the advertising blitz and got a decent reputation. Playing off of THAT, they downgraded and cheapened even more. A good recipe for stockholders ... not so much for gun buyers ...

REV

 

[hittman]

I agree that a $2600 1911 isnt $2000 better than a $600 1911, and is unlikely to shoot better than a $1000 1911, but I will also agree that a $900 1911 is almost certain to be better than a $450 1911....

Finally ..... somebody understands the point I couldn't get across.

 

[BulkAmmo]

I have a limit to what I'm willing to spend on a 1911. Right around 1,000 is where I feel like my cost benefit ratio starts to slip to the point where I'm paying for name vs performance. This goes on in all areas of mechanical devises though. Cars have a threshold of around 60k.

I would like to see a Ruger 1911 that would come in just a little above the RIA. If the build quality was similar, they would have a winner. I know a lot of shooters that would like to have a nice entry level American 1911. Not taking away from the imports.


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