Chance
Buckeye
Picked up a nice BNM-7 357 Maxi this morning. Nice package with box and shipper, 200 rds and Hunter holster, unfortunately no manual. Any idea how many are actually out here?
"New" BNM-7 .357 Maximum
- Thread starter Chance
- Start date
schloss
Single-Sixer
I have no idea. But that thing looks awesome! I've never put my hands on one. Only seen pictures.
contender
Ruger Guru
The serial numbers suggest that around 16,000 maxis were built. However, due to research, I believe Coogs has stated that around 11,000 total made it out of the factory. Now, throw in the ones that got returned to Ruger & not back in the market, and the ones that the custom gun builders have transformed,, the numbers are dwindling.
OP
Chance
Buckeye
I know these don't show up consistently. And even though I don't usually get overly excited about new models this package sounded good enough that I was out the door at 8:04 this morning to pick it up. The 200 rounds that came with it were the real clincher. Especially after going through the ordeal of tracking down .256 win mag to be able to shoot the Hawkeye. And that's not to mention the box and shipper. Any Ruger with box and shipper is worth careful consideration.
Coogs
Maximum
Nice find! Ruger actually did produce 16,314 Maxi's. But, the also "scrapped" almost 5000 of these beautiful firearms. :shock: :shock: :shock: Leaving approximately 11,500 of them out there. Somewhere here, a while ago, I posted a little paragraph or two titled something like "Maximum production numbers, well maybe" I'm no computer person, so if someone finds it and can copy and post it to this thread it gives a little more insight to the Maximum situation, Thanks, Coogs.
Coogs, were those scrapped before even being shipped, scrapped upon return, or some of each?
Coogs
Maximum
Well, I looked for that post my self and couldn't find it, I did post it on e the RCA forum a year or two ago so I thought I'd post it here.
Total Maximums produced.....................................................16,314
Factory production scrap (I;m just guessing @ this).002%.....................-32
Maximums available for shipping.............................................16,292
Maximums that DID ship(approx.)............................................11,500
Maximums that did not ship (yes, I do know where they are! :wink: )....4,792
Now, back to the Maxi's that shipped........................................11,500
How about a figure of lost, stolen, destroyed, etc., .05%?...................-575
Puts us at about this in circulation...........................................10,925
Now, given the huge interest in the ultimate big bore hand cannons as of late,
I'd easily say as high as 30% have, or are in the the process of being cut up, so
Maxi's in circulation............................................................10,925
Minus custom guns(30% may be a little high right now, but realistic)....-3,278
number of uncut Maxi's out there..............................................7,647
One more math problem, how about, out of the Maxi's that are uncut and in
circulation, how many are unfired, with all box and papers? Pure collector
grade?
Number of uncut Maxi's in circulation.........................................7,647
% of Maxi's shot, lost boxes, etc., how about 40%?.........................-3,059
Leaving an approximate # of "pure" collector grade Maxi's.................4,488
I think these figures are somewhat reasonable and probably very realistic.
The Max is a great handgun when used/loaded properly and it has obviously proven to be a great platform for custom guns.
If you do shoot a Max, as I do have a 10 1/2" that goes to the range quite often, say with heavy bullets, m180gr. and larger and Slow burning powders and the Max will give you a lifetime of pleasure, God Bless, Coogs.
Total Maximums produced.....................................................16,314
Factory production scrap (I;m just guessing @ this).002%.....................-32
Maximums available for shipping.............................................16,292
Maximums that DID ship(approx.)............................................11,500
Maximums that did not ship (yes, I do know where they are! :wink: )....4,792
Now, back to the Maxi's that shipped........................................11,500
How about a figure of lost, stolen, destroyed, etc., .05%?...................-575
Puts us at about this in circulation...........................................10,925
Now, given the huge interest in the ultimate big bore hand cannons as of late,
I'd easily say as high as 30% have, or are in the the process of being cut up, so
Maxi's in circulation............................................................10,925
Minus custom guns(30% may be a little high right now, but realistic)....-3,278
number of uncut Maxi's out there..............................................7,647
One more math problem, how about, out of the Maxi's that are uncut and in
circulation, how many are unfired, with all box and papers? Pure collector
grade?
Number of uncut Maxi's in circulation.........................................7,647
% of Maxi's shot, lost boxes, etc., how about 40%?.........................-3,059
Leaving an approximate # of "pure" collector grade Maxi's.................4,488
I think these figures are somewhat reasonable and probably very realistic.
The Max is a great handgun when used/loaded properly and it has obviously proven to be a great platform for custom guns.
If you do shoot a Max, as I do have a 10 1/2" that goes to the range quite often, say with heavy bullets, m180gr. and larger and Slow burning powders and the Max will give you a lifetime of pleasure, God Bless, Coogs.
Coogs
Maximum
Those guns were actually scrapped before ever being shipped. I imagine there were some others that were returned and then scrapped, which by the way is NOT a figure I included in my little math problem. And that answer may once again raise the question of what will happen if you return a Maximum to the factory today. THEY WILL NOT KEEP IT and by federal law they cannot! I spent a while on the phone with Ruger service over the last month or so. If you send a Max back for repair, they will evaluate it, they will either say we can not repair it or they will give you a cost to repair it. If you do not want the repair or if it can't be repaired in either instance they WILL send it back to you if you request them to. If it can not be repaired, they do have the option of offering you a firearm of similar caliber and cost, but unfortunately not @ current collector Value, probably at original MSRP. If you do not want the trade, they will send it back to you.
At one time back in 1984-1985 or so, Ruger did, for a very short period of time, offer to buy your Max back, by the way at full MSRP! Walter Howe, head of special projects, instigated this, and was actually fired by Bill Sr., just for a short period of time, I think just a couple of weeks or so, for doing this. I have also heard stories, 2nd hand though they may be, "my friends brother sent his Maximum in and got a new Super" Have not been able to document that yet, but.....................More to follow, Coogs.
At one time back in 1984-1985 or so, Ruger did, for a very short period of time, offer to buy your Max back, by the way at full MSRP! Walter Howe, head of special projects, instigated this, and was actually fired by Bill Sr., just for a short period of time, I think just a couple of weeks or so, for doing this. I have also heard stories, 2nd hand though they may be, "my friends brother sent his Maximum in and got a new Super" Have not been able to document that yet, but.....................More to follow, Coogs.
Coogs,
Thanks for the numbers and the other info! I wondered how they could legally keep your Maxi? Thanks for setting that straight.
Terry
Thanks for the numbers and the other info! I wondered how they could legally keep your Maxi? Thanks for setting that straight.
Terry
OP
Chance
Buckeye
Man, Coogs, you know how to answer a question. Thanks
Your posts on the Maxi's over the years played a large part in my not letting this one slip by. If it weren't for those posts I would probably have no idea what they were or any interest in owning one.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for but here are some pics of the forcing cone
Your posts on the Maxi's over the years played a large part in my not letting this one slip by. If it weren't for those posts I would probably have no idea what they were or any interest in owning one.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for but here are some pics of the forcing cone
I have one that my dad bought new. It is perfect, but had 6 rounds fired through it the day it was bought. So the gun for all intents and purposes is "new".....BUT, it HAS been fired. So my dilemma is what to do with it. I know they have value, but this one is not NIB any longer, so probably just going to work up a nice load for it and enjoy it...........IF I can find some more brass. I only have 40 rounds
gtxmonte said:
7-1/2" or 10-1/2" ?
With only six rounds thru it, it's "like new" if it has no cosmetic issues.
Do you have the original box & papers, and perhaps even the outer "shipper" sleeve? Even better, and very attractive to a collector even if not a "pure" absolutely "unfired" gun. They were all fired at The Factory, after all.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
deserttrans
Buckeye
Nice going Larry. I called the guy at 0900 and he said it was sold. Since it was right in Sun City, I should have known. Was the ammo factory or reloads?
Ron
Ron
OP
Chance
Buckeye
They are reloads Ron. I figured I better be fast on this one so I called him at 0800 (the official Sun City start of the day) 150 of the rounds are 158gr with H110 and the other 50 are 170gr with H110.
Figured I better get there before you "out of towners" jumped in. LOL. RENE provided the roadmap as I had no idea of the value of a Maxi. Throw in the box, shipper and ammo and it looked like a pretty good deal.
Figured I better get there before you "out of towners" jumped in. LOL. RENE provided the roadmap as I had no idea of the value of a Maxi. Throw in the box, shipper and ammo and it looked like a pretty good deal.
OP
Chance
Buckeye
Daniel
Seems we have been following a similar path lately
Seems we have been following a similar path lately
Joe S.
Hunter
that is nice! i have heard the Maxi's are bad about flame cutting and i see the OP's has a touch of it. is this a bad problem?
With proper ammo it is not a problem at all.
Someone will shortly be along with the whole story.
Someone will shortly be along with the whole story.
Coogs
Maximum
Flame cutting of the top strap will go on for 1000-2000 rds. and then it seems to stop. Forcing cone erosion is another story. If you load light bullets, IMO, less than 180gr., and fast burning powders, and load it to hyper velocities, forcing cone erosion will continue. It is actually worse with the 6 degree forcing cone, Ruger did change it to 11 dergrees which did help. Load the Max with 180 gr. and heavier bullets, slowwww burning powders like 4227 and the Max will give you a lifetime of pleasure. Coogs.
OP
Chance
Buckeye
Well, looks like the 156 and 170gr ammo was not the greatest buy. This is good to know since I plan to shoot it.
To the best of my knowledge, the most severe damage was done by Bubba trying to drive 125-grain bullets at 4000FPS. The gun was intended to allow silhouette shooter to throw 180-grain (or heavier) bullets at respectable velocities to knock down those distant, heavy steel rams.
Properly loaded, it's a great shooter.
Properly loaded, it's a great shooter.
Coogs
Maximum
Believe it or not Ruger DID "scrap" almost 5000 completed Maximums. Hard to believe, but given the litigious society in which we live, it is easily believable.
Some Maximums did remain in inventory until as late as 2005, as is evident as one I have, serial #600-00222, that has inventory stickers, a round colored dot with the month and year on it, such as 06/05. It is also interesting that this Max was shipped with a "bar code" label on the shipping sleeve denoting the Maximum. The Max was last produced in 1984, at least that is what Ruger records will tell you, the bar code labels were not adopted by Ruger until the early to mid 1990's.
The last Maxi's out in public hands were produced in March of 1983. Highest serial number out there is 600-11588. If ya got it, please, please let me know!!! I'm close, I have #600-11577. A little more...................Coogs.
Some Maximums did remain in inventory until as late as 2005, as is evident as one I have, serial #600-00222, that has inventory stickers, a round colored dot with the month and year on it, such as 06/05. It is also interesting that this Max was shipped with a "bar code" label on the shipping sleeve denoting the Maximum. The Max was last produced in 1984, at least that is what Ruger records will tell you, the bar code labels were not adopted by Ruger until the early to mid 1990's.
The last Maxi's out in public hands were produced in March of 1983. Highest serial number out there is 600-11588. If ya got it, please, please let me know!!! I'm close, I have #600-11577. A little more...................Coogs.
David Bradshaw
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
- Messages
- 933
gtxmonte.... while waiting to find .357 Maximum brass, don't be afraid to load your Blackhawk Maximum with .357 Mag or .38 Special. Last year I got out my 10-1/2" Maximum, rested it on a rolled-up pair of old sweat pants, took a SWAG for sight dope, and made a first round hit (Federal .357 Mag 180 JHP) on a metal pot at 200 yards. Reloaded with Winchester .38 Spl. 125 JHP, held a smidgen more front sight, a hair more windage, and made a another first round hit at 200 yards. (The hit from a .38 Special especially gratifying.)
The .357 Maximum may be handloaded with 38 Spl/357 Mag dies. IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227 are comfortable all around powders. Win 296/H110 and Win 680 and Accurate 1680 yield top velocity with 180-200 grain bullets. Top velocity is not necessary to make this cartridge work on steel or game. Don't forget to use Small Rifle Primers.
We have a foot on snow and it's still falling, so we'll be dealing with that. Before day is done, I may take out the .357 Maximum and squeeze off a few rounds of the real stuff.
David Bradshaw
The .357 Maximum may be handloaded with 38 Spl/357 Mag dies. IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227 are comfortable all around powders. Win 296/H110 and Win 680 and Accurate 1680 yield top velocity with 180-200 grain bullets. Top velocity is not necessary to make this cartridge work on steel or game. Don't forget to use Small Rifle Primers.
We have a foot on snow and it's still falling, so we'll be dealing with that. Before day is done, I may take out the .357 Maximum and squeeze off a few rounds of the real stuff.
David Bradshaw
Coogs,
Can you explain what you said earlier- I sure would like to know more.
"Maximums that did not ship (yes, I do know where they are! )....4,792"
Can you explain what you said earlier- I sure would like to know more.
"Maximums that did not ship (yes, I do know where they are! )....4,792"
Coogs
Maximum
See my follow up post a couple later, I stated that "almost 5000 were scrapped" Thats the 4,792 I was talking about. I should have explained a little further as the "math problem" post that I made about the Max is a copy that I posted on the RCA forum a while ago, just after I confirmed that Ruger had scrapped those guns. Some of us had heard rumors for years that that is what happened but until I talked to Ruger records and it was confirmed. I guess I was just trying to keep a little more mystery about it, a week or two later I added to the thread about confirming they WERE scrapped. Just trying to keep everyone thinkin', I guess, God Bless, Coogs.
OP
Chance
Buckeye
Really appreciate all the research you have done on the Maxis and your willingness to share. For the old models we have Chad and Dougan's work but finding historical info on the new models is a different story.
You wouldn't have a Manual and/or warranty card you would be willing to part with for a reasonable (or semi-reasonable) price would you?
You wouldn't have a Manual and/or warranty card you would be willing to part with for a reasonable (or semi-reasonable) price would you?
mohavesam
Hawkeye
I don't have the "whole story" either, but there's a point every SRM owner should know.
True collectibles will never be made again.
Consider that Ruger, when/if they ever mature manufacturing-wise to a single-piece workflow model, wherein very small lots or even single guns can be manufactured & sold with an acceptable margin - can literally re-make any gun they've ever produced. Just by "changing the tape", or programming, essentially.
Of course that concept drives collectors nuts, and separates the "original" runs from later production runs. As a matter of fact Ruger has done this already with several models, the 44 SBH Hunter to name one.
But due to engineering and lawyers and other factors, we sleep soundly knowing that the long-frame SRM and the Hawkeye will be at the very bottom of a potential re-make list, if ever to be re-considered at all. -Add to that list probably the 5-shot 480SRH, for other reasons (reputedly a gentleman's agreement between William Ruger and John Linebaugh, but that's for another story).
Safe to say the SRM 357 Maximum revolver and a couple others may be viewed as "true collectibles" in the Ruger world. I doubt the wittiest 30-something marketing manager could convince them to re-make those guns. Now it's a shame Ruger never considered IHC plating the frames to eliminate any chance in heck of cutting, but que sera...
I have a couple 8) and have taken whitetail with them and will attest it's a fine choice for making venison. Just wondering if I should chop up a 10-incher to make a Bisley hunting gun... what say ye?
Oh yes, the moral of the OP: Ya snooze, ya lose!!!
True collectibles will never be made again.
Consider that Ruger, when/if they ever mature manufacturing-wise to a single-piece workflow model, wherein very small lots or even single guns can be manufactured & sold with an acceptable margin - can literally re-make any gun they've ever produced. Just by "changing the tape", or programming, essentially.
Of course that concept drives collectors nuts, and separates the "original" runs from later production runs. As a matter of fact Ruger has done this already with several models, the 44 SBH Hunter to name one.
But due to engineering and lawyers and other factors, we sleep soundly knowing that the long-frame SRM and the Hawkeye will be at the very bottom of a potential re-make list, if ever to be re-considered at all. -Add to that list probably the 5-shot 480SRH, for other reasons (reputedly a gentleman's agreement between William Ruger and John Linebaugh, but that's for another story).
Safe to say the SRM 357 Maximum revolver and a couple others may be viewed as "true collectibles" in the Ruger world. I doubt the wittiest 30-something marketing manager could convince them to re-make those guns. Now it's a shame Ruger never considered IHC plating the frames to eliminate any chance in heck of cutting, but que sera...
I have a couple 8) and have taken whitetail with them and will attest it's a fine choice for making venison. Just wondering if I should chop up a 10-incher to make a Bisley hunting gun... what say ye?
Oh yes, the moral of the OP: Ya snooze, ya lose!!!
Can you just imagine how "interesting" it will be in Ruger collecting fifty years from now?
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
chet15
Hawkeye
Coogs...was thinking that F.B., Jr. spoke about this saying that a lot of those scrapped maximum serial numbers were actually just cylinder frames with the machining, polishing and serial numbers on them.
Chet15
Chet15
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