Mini-14 downs B-52. I was there.

sigp220.45

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I was stationed as a Security Police Shift Commander at Anderson Air Force Base, Guam. In October of 1987 I was working a midnight shift when a B-52 declared an in-flight emergency due to a loss of hydraulics. We all booked to the flightline to watch the show.

The Buff dumped fuel and came in on a seemingly normal approach. It touched down, then drove right off the runway into the turf separating it from the runway going the other direction. It plowed grass and mud into the air, firetrucks hauled ass in its direction, and the crew all jumped out and ran the other way. It was a great show.

Pretty soon the Base Commander and the Wing Commander showed up. Not long after that OSI (Office of Special Investigations) appeared. When they called day shift in early to relieve us and ordered me to the armory to oversee weapons turn in I knew something was up.

It turns out there were a number of bullet holes in the underside of the big plane. Little bullet holes. Since all of my guys had M-16s, we were the first suspects. I was carrying a .38 so I was deemed trustworthy.

It got worse. I tried to explain to the OSI guy that he might see some surprising things when we stripped rounds out of everyone's magazines. The boys were known to get bored and shoot the occasional coconut, boonie deer, boonie pig, boonie dog, or lizard on long nights. Since the armory only checked magazines by pushing down on the top round, the ever-resourceful enlisted men soon learned to gather up their empties, strip out the other rounds, load the empties in the bottom of the mag, and replace the live rounds on top. If they couldn't find their empties, pen tops and whittled sticks would suffice.

Sure enough, halfway into the round stripping procedure we hit empties and other debris. Those poor dudes were put to the side, even though mags weren't assigned to specific weapons and those rounds could have been fired off anytime after the last full scale inspection.

Finally, one of the guys said he had run into a GovGuam conservation officer in the jungle. At Anderson at the time, there was a huge jungle area where racks of Vietnam era iron bombs sat exposed to the elements, too unstable to move. GovGuam COs were allowed in, allegedly to catch poachers, but in reality mostly poached themselves. The well guarded jungle on base was one of the few places where there was still a good population of pigs and the weird little barking deer of Guam. The CO had his trusty Mini-14 with him at the time.

Leonard Iriarte,who had gone to school with my Guamanian bride, was soon rounded up. His issue Mini-14 was seized, and soon the tale was told. He and his pal had smoked some weed and were intent on getting some deer when they became annoyed with the aforementioned B-52 practicing its low approaches over their heads. Leonard waited for the next pass, and sent 20 rounds skyward.

The Wing Commander was on TV later, claiming this incident didn't mean the B-52 was vulnerable to ground fire. He called it "the golden BB", meaning old Leonard just got lucky.

This is the only reference I can find to the incident:

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-02-12/news/mn-28794_1

They were both convicted, and are both out of stir now.
 
That's some story! Those guys can trace their criminal record back to demon weed. 8)

I hadn't heard the term "booked" in many years. Thanks for sharing. :lol:
 
Thats a classic. How long did the Air Force issue .38's anyway? That venerable dinosaur from the era blackpowder served for a really long time.
 
FergusonTO35 said:
How long did the Air Force issue .38's anyway? That venerable dinosaur from the era blackpowder served for a really long time.

I didn't get a Beretta until 1989 or 90.
 
The .45 Auto gets all the glory but the .38 Special was the other pistol cartridge that protected our country for most of the twentieth century. According to an old military technical manual in the library, milspec .38's were loaded pretty hot. From what I recall, they had a 158 grain FMJ at 1,000 fps.
 
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FergusonTO35 said:
The .45 Auto gets all the glory but the .38 Special was the other pistol cartridge that protected our country for most of the twentieth century. According to an old military technical manual in the library, milspec .38's were loaded pretty hot. From what I recall, they had a 158 grain FMJ at 1,000 fps.
The stuff I was issued in USAF was called M41 Ball, I think loaded by Olin (AKA Winchester). It was a 130 grain FMJ at 700-something fps. Not hot at all. Not especially accurate, either. Its only graces were that it didn't lead bores, and the FMJ bullets were easy to drop in by speedloader. I think you can buy pretty much the same stuff today in white boxes at Walmart.
 
@Ferguson: I didn't think that the .38 spl started as a blackpowder round, and so I looked it up. You were right. The .38 spl was introduced in 1902 with a 158 grain lead roundnose, propelled by 20.6 grains of FFFg blackpowder.

My neighbor in the 1970's was an air force sgt and worked part time at the base shooting range. We had an unlimited supply of once fired military .38 spl brass. We both put a countless amount of skeeter skelton loads through our blackhawks. I still have a 5 gal paint bucket full of military brass in my garage. (I assume the statute of limitations has been reached on that liberated brass.)
 
hammie said:
My neighbor in the 1970's was an air force sgt and worked part time at the base shooting range. We had an unlimited supply of once fired military .38 spl brass. We both put a countless amount of skeeter skelton loads through our blackhawks. I still have a 5 gal paint bucket full of military brass in my garage. (I assume the statute of limitations has been reached on that liberated brass.)
That GI .38 brass was good stuff. Very thick and tough. I've reloaded bunches of it a bunch of times and I don't think I've ever seen a split neck or any other hint of wear on them. Dunno if the current Walmart white box 130 grain FMJ load has the same brass. I really doubt it. :?
 
This should end the debate over what's better, the mini 14 or AR's. Let's see a black gun top that. :lol: :lol:
 
Bob G said:
This should end the debate over what's better, the mini 14 or AR's. Let's see a black gun top that. :lol: :lol:
About a decade ago, I read a credible story (author was historian Barrett Tillman) about a Jap Zero being brought down by ONE round of .45ACP. :shock:

I think that one wins. :wink:
 
Snake, I used to shoot alot of that cheapo W-W FMJ .38 before I started reloading. Decently accurate but it printed way low with my S&W 10-5. As the 10 was the most common military revolver it seems odd to me that they would've paired that ammo with it. Stranger things have happened I guess. The old tech manual where I found out about the hot 158 grain ammo was printed in the early 80's and contains operating instructions for the S&W M10 and Ruger Service Six revolvers. Maybe they were considering introducing a stronger load for the Ruger?
 
I'm questioning the veracity of this story. Everyone knows the Mini-14 is not accurate enough to hit ANYTHING, much less a B-52 in flight.
 
Snake45 said:
Bob G said:
This should end the debate over what's better, the mini 14 or AR's. Let's see a black gun top that. :lol: :lol:
About a decade ago, I read a credible story (author was historian Barrett Tillman) about a Jap Zero being brought down by ONE round of .45ACP. :shock:

I think that one wins. :wink:

One shot one kill, sir. :wink:
 
mcknight77 said:
I'm questioning the veracity of this story. Everyone knows the Mini-14 is not accurate enough to hit ANYTHING, much less a B-52 in flight.

David slew Goliath with a slingshot and the Mini 14 took down a mighty B-52. Does that mean Mini 14's are devinely inspired? :D
 
"That GI .38 brass was good stuff. Very thick and tough

@snake45: You are correct. (as you are about most things. I've read many of your previous posts.) If I recall correctly, we knocked about 2 grains off skeeter's load and seated to the cannelure. The cases fell out of the gun. Off course the blackhawk's are tough, too. What's the old joke? You can kill seven bears with one blackhawk. You shoot the first six bears and then club the seventh one to death with the ruger.
 
FergusonTO35 said:
Snake, I used to shoot alot of that cheapo W-W FMJ .38 before I started reloading. Decently accurate but it printed way low with my S&W 10-5. ...

The FMJ .38 spcl load is a 130 gr bullet. Light bullets will print LOWER than heavy bullets in most instances, because their weight contributes to higher veleocities...which means the bullet leaves the barrel sooner...while that barrel is still pointed LOW during recoil.
 
"They were both convicted, and are both out of stir now."

They both should have been lashed to a BUFF main mount and then let the BUFF do touch and go's all day.
 
chapped lips said:
"They were both convicted, and are both out of stir now."

They both should have been lashed to a BUFF main mount and then let the BUFF do touch and go's all day.

What?
 
resident said:
FergusonTO35 said:
Snake, I used to shoot alot of that cheapo W-W FMJ .38 before I started reloading. Decently accurate but it printed way low with my S&W 10-5. ...

The FMJ .38 spcl load is a 130 gr bullet. Light bullets will print LOWER than heavy bullets in most instances, because their weight contributes to higher veleocities...which means the bullet leaves the barrel sooner...while that barrel is still pointed LOW during recoil.
I never had any trouble getting any of our Smith 15s--or my personal 19--zeroed with the stuff. :wink:
 
The .38 Special ammo I was issued for my Model 15 was the one in the middle:

l_f42278bbff5d4ba2bc197dcf109ac180.jpg


It sure didn't seem very hot - felt like a wadcutter. Nobody seemed to know the reason for the deeply seated bullet. Its called PGU 12/B.

According to the Bureau of Prisons, Leonard only did about three years:

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=Leonard&Middle=&LastName=Iriarte&Race=U&Sex=U&Age=&x=79&y=16
 
My father went through Korea with a 38 smith and wesson strapped to his chest and as many of you have seen, he still has it today... both that one and another that I carried during high school were loaded with minimum magnum loads. At least that's what my father calls them. I did a test once on an old farm / tenant house my buddies and I had fixed up.. I was 15 or 16 at the time... one of those 38's went through five 1" pine boards. In other words 2 and a half walls.

I suspect you could in theory 'down' a B52 with one shot from a 22 if you hit the right spot... say the pilot's heat while on approach... the dern things are just big aluminum tin cans.
 
Good story on the B-52. Reference The Gov't issue .38 FMJ hardball (The one on the right as pictured by sigp220.45) I used to carry it in a 12 round spit shined learher slide on my Sam Browne, for dressier occasions back in the 60s. A little flitz on a soft cloth and it will shine like a diamond in a goat's rear end. Interesting side note. I was stationed about 50 miles out from a larger USAF instillation. One of my fellow troopers mentioned that you could trade beer to the APs for ammo. I had a friend in the distribution business and he would give me all the broken cases I wanted. One day I took my buddy four put together cases of brew. A few lays later I got in return a Full case of factory wadcutters and about a dozen boxes of the hot FMJ stuff. Since I have never developed a taste for beer, it was like hitting the mother load. Good day, Jack
 
In my 20 years of Air Force, I saw many incidents of people shooting at aircraft with personal weapons. When I was at Richards-Gebaur AFB (Dickey Goober) in Missouri, the ANG had C-124 Globemasters. There was a small pond and gravel pit about 20 miles out in the boonies and right in the approach path to the base. They started having a rash of .22rf holes in 124's. Local law enforcement staked out the pit for many days and finally "caught" the perpertrator! He thought the 124's made good "large" targets. None were ever shot down but the potential was there for a real disaster! Just another thing that gives us law abiding gun owners an undeserved "bad" tag!..........................Dick :wink:
 
On several occasions while piloting single-engined patrol aircraft I returned to base with bullet holes in the airplane. I usually had no clue that I'd been shot at except for the discovery during post-flight inspection.
On one occasion, while conducting a game census/survey I observed 3 deer-hunters unlimbering from a pickup truck. One of them noticed me (about 300' AGL) and took a look at me thru his riflescope.
I realized he was probably only looking, but it certainly brought my blood to boil, so I peeled off my grid/route and took a low-run at him, forcing him to drop prone in the dirt.
I pulled up and (we carried small 1/4 lb sandbags with crepe-paper streamers and attached notepaper) bombed him with a scribbled-note "Don't point that rifle at me!)
He read the note and embarrassingly waved his arm at me.
I cont'd my patrol and over the very next ridge saw two 8-10 point bucks squaring off with each-other. I pulled up, turned back, and bombed the hunters with another note informing them of the bucks just over the next-ridge to their West.
All three of them waved their hats at me and headed off on foot. :P

Anyway... it was/is disturbing to know that idiots take pot-shots at airplanes as if they didn't realize living people are inside them. There's a new law being developed now to make it a federal crime to point lasers at aircraft. It's about time!
 
sigp220.45 said:
FergusonTO35 said:
How long did the Air Force issue .38's anyway? That venerable dinosaur from the era blackpowder served for a really long time.

I didn't get a Beretta until 1989 or 90.

My son in law whom works for a federal agency just replaced their 38's :shock: last year with Beretta 92's.
 
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