Looking for some answers, please.

[Bull Barrel]

Son got me a Taurus .357 mag, 4" bbl.
Ran some 357 through it and I got some Remington 38 spl....didnt notice it was +p...explained why there wasnt a lot of difference.
Anyhoo, we cleaned up the .38 casings and reloaded using CCI 500 primers, 125 gr Berry fmj slug over 6 gr of CFE pistol.
First shot was nociaby weaker than the factory load. Next two seemed a bit better. Fourth seemed weak...the blullet never exited the barrel and was stuck. Drove the slug out, cleaned the gun and tried again. Another stuck bullet.
For grins we fired 4 rds of the factory load. Worked perfectly.
We also couldnt help notice the reloads were filty with fouling everywhere-even all over the casings. I am glad we only loaded 7 rds.
Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[kooz]

not enough pressure...to weak of a load

 

[Bull Barrel]

We loaded according to Hodgdon chart. Max load is 6.2 gr we used 6.

Edit....max load is 6.4 gr.

 

[RoninPA]

Did you roll crimp the case? Does the book say to use regular(CCI 500) or magnum (CCI 550) primers. How old is the CFE? Has it ever been stored where it might have been subject to moisture?

It's really hard to troubleshoot a problem like this by long distance.

 

[Bull Barrel]

No crimp on the cases. New powder opened today sored in the safe for a few months. Book says 500 primers. Since it is burning so dirty I speculated it needed mag primers but didnt try it.
I forgot to say these are plated bullets. Found online plated bullets need a bit more powder (?).
So...based on your suggestion and what I found we bumped up the charge to 6.5 grains.
Ran great but still a bit dirty. Loaded factory ammo and it was much more powerful.
So, tomorrow we are off to the LGS for jacketed bullets and maybe different powder.
When I get back home I will stop where I got my supplies (Graf's) and ask questions.
Thanks so much.

 

[contender]

Plated bullets should be loaded like cast lead bullets. Your factory stuff is likely jacketed. With that,,, the velocities will be higher.

 

[Twoboxer]

To start with, two points: it's hard to diagnose this from a distance given what you've said, and what you've said seems to indicate you don't know enough to be reloading. Rather than list the things that lead to that conclusion, I'll just move to possible solutions.

If the case truly had 6.0gr of newly opened powder straight from the safe (bad place to store powder, it's one of the few places it could explode) with a published 6.2 (correction, 6.4gr) max and the bullet was secured with some tension on it to the proper COL, there's no way it wouldn't exit the barrel. So one of those things is wrong.

If you didn't crimp, how did you close the bell on the case? If you didn't bell the case, how did you get the bullet seated?

You could get the bullet seated without scraping it if you didn't resize the case. Did you resize the case? If not the bullet could be seated so loosely that you don't know what length it actually was when it fired . . . if it was in the case at all by then.

So, maybe some additional info about your loading process, including answers to the above and the COL the cartridge was made to.

 

[Bull Barrel]

Nah, I just took the cases and shoved new primers in them, dumped in some powder and like they do in Afghanistan drove the bullet home with a rock.

 

[Bull Barrel]

Plated bullets should be loaded like cast lead bullets. Your factory stuff is likely jacketed. With that,,, the velocities will be higher.

Thats good info which backs up what I found. Yes, factory ammo is jacketed. Thanks!

 

[Jimbo357mag]

6.0 gr of CFE Pistol powder with a 125gr copper plated bullet and a standard primer should work fine in a 38 special case if reloaded properly. Start load is 5.2gr and max is 6.2 for a standard 38 special with a 125 gr cast LRNFP bullet according to Hodgdon.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

You must be doing something wrong or your powder or primers are bad to get two stuck bullets. Be careful and meticulous until you find the problem.

 

[Bull Barrel]

Actually we were loading to 38 +p specs, which according to the Hodgdon site-which we use regularly, max is 6.4 grains. We used 6.
Jim, you may be onto something with the primers being bad. While at the store I am buying fresh primers.
As for being meticulous we even used two scales to confirm powder charge. All cartridges were measured before and after every step.
Thanks, Jimbo.

 

[Clovishound]

The +P data you reference is for a jacketed bullet. You cannot interchange bullet types.

 

[mikld]

For a new reloader with "squib" problems, I'd suggest weighing every charge. Simple physics; a certain amount of pressure is needed to push a bullet out of the barrel and if there isn't sufficient pressure, it gets stuck. For the cartridge in question, if the charges are lower than 5 grains there is a chance of squibs.

For new reloaders I suggest they find a bullet they want for a specific purpose (target, hunting, SD, etc.) then find a load in his manual, then buy components. Also, stick with book loads (or perhaps powder manufacturer web sites) and pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads web site or gun shop guru.

I've been reloading for over 35 years and the amount of actually bad primers I've encountered can be counted on one hand (the one with 4 fingers). Misfires from bad primers are extremely rare...

FWIW; reading package labels may not be very important at the grocery store, but it is essential when purchasing reloading components or ammo. Bad things can happen when "I thought I was buying...".

 

[kmoore]

I have been handloading for around 45 years. I fill mason jars with fired primers. unknown how many. I toss them when full. Point is Is load rifle and handguns did shotguns at some point. I did not read any bad advice given on here.
Since not mentioned is this a NEW handgun or used. Because if used it can and may have a build up of lead in the barrel. Something I had to remove on Dept. guns when we used .38s and .357s on a on going cleaning of many revolvers including my own.
Also This is just me, I do not use plated bullets. I use lead bullets I make and they are lubed in rifle and handgun or jacketed bullets. Many say plated bullets are fine in handguns. OK, I do not care. They should be shot at lead bullet speeds, I have thousand of lead bullets. They cannot or should not be shot at jacket bullet speeds, I spend a couple more bucks and buy jacketed. I have never had a bullet get stuck in any barrel. Never had a round not fire. I did double charge a .357 load. 1 shot and I knew not to fire any more. The gun is a S&W 19 it held.

 

[dougader]

6 grains of CFE should not have stuck a bullet in the barrel. Did you follow all the steps of handloading correctly? Was the powder wet or otherwise degraded? Were the primers new, old or corroded at all? Did you properly resize the cases, bell them, seat the bullets and crimp them properly?

Lots of questions... and reasons that MIGHT be the problem. Badly fouled cases says to me that the powder wasn't burning right... which can cause fouling, low pressure and stuck bullets.

 

[Rick Courtright]

No crimp on the cases.

Hi,

Let's stop right there and work on the most obvious problem I've seen in this discussion!

Do you still have some factory ammo to use for visual comparison? Look at the mouths of the cases and you'll notice the factory CRIMPED EVERY ONE OF THEM. Maybe a little less on lead bullets in .38 Spls than jacketed in .357s, but every one of them has a certain amount of crimp.

Now, no matter how well meaning we are or how long we've been loading (50+ yrs for myself), any of the big factories turns out more ammo in a day than most any of us could in a lifetime, meaning they've got us beat all to pieces on the R&D and testing required to turn out good ammo. So it's wise for us to emulate what they do when we can. In the case of crimping, using the factory round as a guide is good practice.

Now I know there's a guy on that bar stool down at the end (or pecking away at a keyboard somewhere) who announces loudly "I ain't never crimped a round in my life and it's a waste of time!" while that quiet guy at the other end, who works for an ammo factory, sips his beer and thinks "What an idiot... we make millions of rounds a day, and crimp every one of 'em."

Ignore Mr. Loudmouth and take a lesson from the quiet guy, and start working on your crimps. What you're looking for is enough initial resistance to allow the powder to start burning well before the bullet starts to move. The slower the powder, the more important this becomes. Depending on how you're doing the crimping, either with the regular combo seating/crimp die or with a separate crimp only die such as the Redding Profile Die or the Lee Factor Crimp Die, add just a little bit at time (keep track of how much in your loading log book) and test. Continue adding some crimp as long as the results are getting better. At some point results will start to drop off, and that's where you'll want to back off just a hair.

Chances are you'll find better results there. With those light bullets, you may never get a really clean case after firing. In that case, a change is in order. Going to a heavier bullet is one way to go, keeping your existing powder. Or, keep the lighter bullet and go to a faster powder. Fun thing about all this is you get to do a lot of experimenting to find what works best for you! And remember the ammo factory, for all their knowledge, still keeps full time ballisticians busy in the lab learning new things every day, so don't let yourself ever think "I've learned all there is to learn" cuz you haven't. A lot of guys here share my same experience: we learn something new every time we sit down at the bench!

Good luck...

Rick C