Is this "normal" ?

[Johnnu2]

I have a Lyman "Pro 505" beam scale... just a simple set up right? Yet, every time I double check a powder charge weight on my electric scale (forget the name/model at the moment), the comparison is always right on the money out to two digits beyond the decimal. It just seems unusual to me that the old beam scale would be so accurate (I realized two digits past the decimal is not rocket science accuracy, but still.....). Also interesting to my non-technical mind, the electric scale requires more constant calibration during a reloading session where I am weighing every charge (could be because I'm working under old fashioned fluorescent light bulbs.
Anyone have the same experience?

 

[Bob Wright]

Decimal??? My measuring spoons are in fractions, i.e. 1/4 Tsp. etc.

(Not really.) I have used an old RCBS scale since the last Century. I can't shoot well enough to detect a differeence in 1/10 of a grain or so.

Bob Wright

 

[Chief 101]

I trust my 505 and I think I still have a spare one in case this one becomes sensitive to the Earth's rotation or neon lights.... ...I haven't changed the batteries in over 50 years on the one I use...

 

[Dan in MI]

Actually I think you’re looking at it backwards. I would expect the beam to be correct over the electronic.

 

[rkrcpa]

I trust my beam scale.

 

[epags]

Me too

 

[Kevin]

Doesn’t temperature affect electronic scales also?

 

[Cholo]

Yes, they say fluorescent lights can affect digital scales. I've never used those lights over my scale.

I have a PACT digital scale I bought around 1990. As long as I warm it up and calibrate it each time, which takes about 1 minute, it's very consistent. I do check it every 20 rounds loaded to make sure it's still on 00.0 with the empty powder tray on it.

Years ago I checked it against my RCBS balance beam scale and it was dead on. I have a 230.0 grain 45 ACP bullet I use to make sure nothing's gone wonky.

I wouldn't go back to the balance beam unless the PACT crapped out. Then I'd buy another one.

 

[john guedry]

I'm a fan of the beam scales also.

 

[RoninPA]

In my life as a USAF Metrologist, I repaired and calibrated both beam and digital scales and in fact we calibrated the check weights used to make sure the operator knew it was working correctly.

We had a 6 foot (2- 3 foot arms) bullion beam balance that was mounted inside a shock resistant glass case (with vertical sliding front) to remove any discrepancies from vibrations and air currents. It was accurate to +/- 0.000001 mg (1 microgram).

We would show it off when the Wing Commander would bring high ranking vistors to the Lab (Precision Measuring Equipment Laboratory). The Wing Commander knew the routine (because we pulled it on him ) We would give the visitor a piece of paper (which we knew the weight beforehand) and had him/her sigh it in pencil and then we would reweigh it. We would accurately weigh the amount of pencil lead and tell them the weight. The Wing Commander would then say to them, "I told you your signature didn't carry much weight" and then laugh. He loved bringing people in, especially if their signature was shorter than his as we had given him the paper that he signed and we annoted the weight of his signature.

Digital scales are good for quick, routine, repetative measurements but they do have their limitations (temperature, light (as mentioned before), vibrations, air currents). For the average reloader though, a decent digital, even the cheaper ones nowadays will do what you need and an efficient manner. Just use the check weight every now and then to make sure it's working like it's suppose to.

 

[Jeepnik]

And to think, I still measure my black powder by volume, from a measure on the end of a flask. Seems to work even if the method hasn’t changed in heading towards two centuries.

Come to think of it I still have some of those reloading kits that use a mallet and dipper for smokeless.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Notice what is front and center. End of story

 

[MHtractorguy]

I didn't know they made electrical scales.
I did find out about the ceiling fan while loading on the dining room table.

 

[Johnnu2]

I didn't know they made electrical scales.
I did find out about the ceiling fan while loading on the dining room table.

YUP, they do..... some folk call'em "electronic", and some folk call'em digital, and some folk don't call'em at all.

J.

 

[gunzo]

I once got pretty serious about long range rifle shooting & my loading process received more scrutiny than ever before.
A pact digital wasn't always agreeing with my old RCBS 505 scale so a 1010 was added. Then another digital with electronic dispenser. Was also eyeballing lab grade digitals.
When the dust cleared, the digitals would likely need to be encased & void of any draft & all fluorescent lights removed. I sold the digital dispenser, stored the newer 1010 scales, a 100 round box of 22's fell of the top shelf & landed smack dab in the middle of the tray of the other digital I had. Half of it's worth to repair. Scrapped it. I will admit it was great for sorting brass for weight, but had also learned that if I bought known high quality brass to begin with, it didn't need weigh sorted.

Long story short, no draft containment area for a lab grade digital, I still have serviceable fluorescents & back to using my faithful RCBS 505 that I've used since '74. The moral, if there is one. Don't fret too much with the simpler stuff, keep it clean, calibrated, & trust it till it fails. It will be around when the next gen electronic stuff is gone.

 

[Kevin]

What is it about fluorescents lights and how do they affect digital scales?

I reload in the garage. But I installed LED flourcesent lighting. Is that the same as the older flourcesent lights with the large ballasts?

LED flourcesent lights are ballast free by the way.

 

[jimbo1096]

They aren’t fluorescent, they’re LED. There’s a difference.

 

[Mobuck]

When you consider that there are 7000 grains in a pound, 1/10 of a grain is pretty miniscule. Either of my RCBS beam scales will weigh down to INDIVIDUAL grains of stick powder. I don't think more accurate is necessary.

 

[MHtractorguy]

My old Lee beam scale with the steel ball counterweights, powder dippers and a trickler have loaded thousands of accurate rifle cartridges.
I have never seen a reason to compare their accuracy to any battery operated gimmick.
I even weigh charges when using the old hammer operated Lee Loaders. In the dark, on a log, next to a fire.

 

[Johnnu2]

Good thoughts everyone.... thanks.
I continue with my very OLD fluorescents because I'm too lazy to install the LED's I have stashed in my workshop. I suspect they are the culprits in messing with my digital scale, but I don't mind re-calibrating frequently..... I have the 5-0-5 to keep my anal side (no pun intended) happy.
J.

 

[Dan in MI]

Fluorescent lamps cycle at 60 hz , as all lights do, but they create an unseen wave. Years back I took a polaroid picture in the shop I worked at. I don’t know what happened but in the picture was a beautiful cascading wave from the lamp to the floor. I wish I had kept that picture.

 

[Kevin]

When you consider that there are 7000 grains in a pound, 1/10 of a grain is pretty miniscule. Either of my RCBS beam scales will weigh down to INDIVIDUAL grains of stick powder. I don't think more accurate is necessary.

You aren’t wrong.

But when you think about the individual bullets, there might be just 5 or 6 grains in a 9mm depending upon the powder. So the 1/10 becomes more important.

I can’t tell a difference in 1/10 of a grain when shooting, but 5/10 I can. Just four more than the 1/10.

 

[Cholo]

But when you think about the individual bullets, there might be just 5 or 6 grains in a 9mm depending upon the powder. So the 1/10 becomes more important.

.1 grain doesn't matter even if it's only 3 total grains of Bullseye. .1 grains is not 10%. It's 2.9-3.1 total grains of powder being okay even if it's 3.0 grains you want.

I can't tell a difference in 1/10 of a grain when shooting, but 5/10 I can. Just four more than the 1/10.

Anybody who reloads and feels that a load with +/- .5 grains of powder is acceptable need to rethink reloading entirely. .1 grains off is totally acceptable.

 

[Kevin]

.1 grain doesn't matter even if it's only 3 total grains of Bullseye. .1 grains is not 10%. It's 2.9-3.1 total grains of powder being okay even if it's 3.0 grains you want.


Anybody who reloads and feels that a load with +/- .5 grains of powder is acceptable need to rethink reloading entirely. .1 grains off is totally acceptable.

Yes, you are correct, my math was off.

But for the record I didn’t say 1/2 grain is acceptable. I said I could tell the difference when shooting.

Almost always when I reload, if I’m trying a new powder for say 9mm or 38. I will start low and go up by .2 grains.

So I might start 1/2 a grain low and work up. That is when I can tell the difference in both felt recoil and audible volume. And accuracy. 1/2 a grain will often be the difference in how accurate a bullet is.

 

[jims]

I do not reload much anymore so generally I do not use the electronic scale. Just pull out my old Herter's beam scale I got back in 1962 when I started reloading my then wildcat 25-06. Have that rifle yet today, I got both when I was either 13 or 14.

 

[s4s4u]

Good thoughts everyone.... thanks.
I continue with my very OLD fluorescents because I'm too lazy to install the LED's I have stashed in my workshop. I suspect they are the culprits in messing with my digital scale, but I don't mind re-calibrating frequently..... I have the 5-0-5 to keep my anal side (no pun intended) happy.
J.

All good, but you don't know when the digital will lose it's calibration. What if it happens right after you remove the weight? I have a Frankford digital. I bought it for sorting mixed headstamp brass. I set the tare to 97 grains and watched it drift as I went from case to case, eventually having to re-tare when it creeped up over 5 tenths. Not an an amount that is critical when weighing bullets or brass, but with fast powder it could be. They cannot be really trusted unless you get into the $500ish range. Digitals use a sensor, which can fail at any time, beam scales use gravity, which tends to be pretty consistent.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Fluorescent lamps cycle at 60 hz , as all lights do, but they create an unseen wave. Years back I took a polaroid picture in the shop I worked at. I don't know what happened but in the picture was a beautiful cascading wave from the lamp to the floor. I wish I had kept that picture.

We had a crazy time with the refrigerator in our motorhome. It ran on 110 volt and propane so most of the time it was on 110. It started shutting itself off at around the same time every evening before dinner. Took forever to figure it out. When wifie would turn on the fluorescent light over the sink the light would turn off the refrigerator. The light and frig were on a different breaker and circuit. Replaced the light and problem went away.

 

[Johnnu2]

All good, but you don't know when the digital will lose it's calibration. What if it happens right after you remove the weight? I have a Frankford digital. I bought it for sorting mixed headstamp brass. I set the tare to 97 grains and watched it drift as I went from case to case, eventually having to re-tare when it creeped up over 5 tenths. Not an an amount that is critical when weighing bullets or brass, but with fast powder it could be. They cannot be really trusted unless you get into the $500ish range. Digitals use a sensor, which can fail at any time, beam scales use gravity, which tends to be pretty consistent.

I'm super anal, and retired, and don't shoot a lot of rounds....SO, I weigh each charge twice; first on the beam scale and then on the digital ($300 +/- several+ years ago). I also load everything light....
J.

 

[el caminero]

Fluorescent lamps cycle at 60 hz , as all lights do, but they create an unseen wave. Years back I took a polaroid picture in the shop I worked at. I don't know what happened but in the picture was a beautiful cascading wave from the lamp to the floor. I wish I had kept that picture.

Shutter design and speed have fascinated photoguys since forever, and some interesting results have been observed, like the racecars slanted forward if taken from one side or the other, and having to turn the camera over to get the for'd slant from the other side of the car. Dad traded his polaroid in on a miranda because mom would give the snaps away before he had a chance to copy them...

 

[harley08]

Dillon 550?