Is there a way to tell if OM Stags are factory?

[gary@r&g]

I have visited this forum for a loooong time but never joined. Finally did. I hope this is in the right topic section. I love old Ruger FT BH's. I was born in 57 so it is a natural fit. I have always had an affinity for stag and Ivory grips and have several sets on my carry guns (fulltime LEO). I picked up this FT 44 on GB a couple weeks ago and wondered if the grips are factory stags. The guys at single actions suggested I post them here. What do you think? Either way they are a pretty nice set IMO.

Best! Gary

 

[chet15]

Not factory.
You have what appear to be two different medallions in those grips...one style, the medallion in the right panel, was used from 1966 to 1971. XR3 stag grips were not produced after the change to the XR3-RED grip frame, which happened in July 1962.
Don't have my notes in front of me right now, but stag grip production actually stopped in 1960 or 1961.
Knowing the differences in medallions is actually one of the things many of the "fakers" used to get wrong. Unfortunately, most of the fakers today know the difference.

There is also what looks to be glue on the backside of the medallions to hold them in. Ruger didn't glue their medallions in.


Chet15

 

[gary@r&g]

Thanks Chet. I will feel better carrying them in the woods now. Just curious on the difference in the medallions. They look identical to me other than the paint loss on the right medallion. What am I not seeing?

 

[flatgate]

What am I not seeing?

Look at the feathers closely and how they differ between the left side and right side.

flatgate

 

[SATCOM]

Gary,

Welcome to the RF.

That old Flat Top .44 Blackhawk and grips sure makes for a very very nice "carry gun"!! It would be a safe queen for many of us here on the RF, especially with a pair of $350 grips. We would enjoy seeing some of you exotic grips.

SATCOM

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Factory or not, they are quite pretty.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Kevin]

Oh yeah. Those are nice grips factory or not. Not being a grip expert in the slightest, I had to compare them several times to see the difference. Very interesting; Ruger's history that is.

 

[street]

Thanks Chet. I will feel better carrying them in the woods now. Just curious on the difference in the medallions. They look identical to me other than the paint loss on the right medallion. What am I not seeing?

I'm with you on this. It looks like both of the medallions are the 1966 to 1971 "BIRDS". Is it possible to get just a close up of just the medallions. The Factory Stags had an Eagle that has a much skinnier neck then the 1966 to 1971 Eagles.

 

[chet15]

I always look at the comb of the bird, the area located from the top of the eye to his beak. On medallions used 1966 and earlier, this comb hooks sharply inward toward the eye. On medallions used 1966 and later, the comb is a gentle 1/2 moon shape over the eye....no hook inward.
Chet15

 

[rugerguy]

would be nice to "see" BOTH of the grips and the medallions, side by side, on the same plane NOT on an angle or offset from one another, missing paint and angles can make the medallions appear to be 'different'...as for the glue, never know it may have been repaired at one time or another, clean the glue out and check out the "original staking"...have seen guys glue them in place when they are "loose' and often turn in place ( rotate)
Nice looking grips....................bet MOST guys here on the Forum, would jump at those grips 8) :roll: :wink:

 

[street]

Check out the two pictures that I have below. Looking at the point that the neck connects to the head there should be more of a circle for the Old Eagle while the New Eagle will have just a small opening because the neck is thick and takes up most of the circle opening. Looking at the two Eagles I only see a small opening between the neck and the head. We just need better pictures of the Eagles to be sure.

 

[Russell]

I always look at the comb of the bird, the area located from the top of the eye to his beak. On medallions used 1966 and earlier, this comb hooks sharply inward toward the eye. On medallions used 1966 and later, the comb is a gentle 1/2 moon shape over the eye....no hook inward.
Chet15

:shock: Remind me not to list any counterfeit Ruger goods in the classifieds here!

 

[rugerguy]

remember also the thickness of the wings, , the base of the neck, number wings, and so on...there are MANY variations of the black eagle medallions over the years, again, pointing to different vendors?? suppliers?? mold changes??
then bring "people" into the equation, replacing lost or missing medallions, swapping grips around over time......endless
this always interested me when judging any displays or even looking at them, one can see, if they look hard enough, all the variations that can be found........even if we had someone , say like Radical Rod, take a close up picture of every grip medallion on all of his guns, he could write a book, and someone will still come up with "variations" found on OTHER guns. I do not think ( in fact I know) NO-ONE has ever looked at and documented every one that ever came out of the factory and can say equivicably, this is right or that is wrong...........(back to the "parts bin theory") 8)

as I noted earlier, I'd remove the glue, see how and whats underneath, to make a better "educated" opinion,if made up, repaired, replaced, or just flat out 'wrong'........... :wink:


but they are STILL nice grips !!!

 

[street]

Dan! I agree with what you say about all the different Eagles. They are like Postage Stamps when some collectors get down to counting the number of perforations in the stamps. But you will have to admit that only the skinny neck Eagles were installed in the Factory Stags as the Fat Neck Eagles didn't come about till 5 or 6 years after the Factory Stags. Even though there are probably different variations of both. And after all we are trying to show why these grips are not factory and, although It's hard to tell with the grip pictures it appears that at least one and I think both are "Fat Neck Eagles, that would rule out them being Factory Stags. That along with the Eagles being in the wrong place on the grips and being glued in place would give them 3 strikes and you are out, and not factory. :wink:

 

[mcgivern]

If I remember correctly, the factory stags had a small "dished out" area on the inside and also a number written in pencil to keep the halves together. It was not the serial number or any part of it, just a two or three digit number.

 

[street]

If I remember correctly, the factory stags had a small "dished out" area on the inside and also a number written in pencil to keep the halves together. It was not the serial number or any part of it, just a two or three digit number.

The number written in pencil were on the Ivory grips from Ruger. The Stags didn't have any numbers written on the inside of the grips. Although I have seen a couple of Stag grip that could have been factory with numbers on the back. Don't know for sure if they were factory or not but they looked good. Just about all of the Stag grips that most of the collectors thought were Factory had no numbers on their back. Just the Ivory ones had numbers in pencil written on the back.

 

[rugerguy]

went and check Lauras old red eagles and the opposite is true for them, the early medallions had the curved top of the head and then later "hooked" in....interesting
but to me ,it looks like the older medallions ,either way, the wings were skinny, and deeper in depth ( length of the space)....
yes, I agree as to the necks and their width wider at the base.........
bottom line, I would still like to "see" whats under the glue, and how the staking ( or lack of it) as well as how the hole was drilled, reset...........the glue tells us ,medallions were installed and glued in place, and most likely NOT staked or even drilled properly ( let alone counter bored correctly)
MOST of the "fakes" we've come across, the location of the medallions were not as they appear to be on the pictured ones above but to Chets "standard" of 3/16 in and 3/16 down,,,,the set back above is of the older first (early ) styles.......
BUT STILL really NICE grips !!!!