Is there a good light-flash, light-noise .357 caliber load?

[Greg F.]

You might want to check out Double Tap ammo www.doubletapammo.com They advertise their 38spl and 125gr 357 ammo as virtually flash free. If you want the least amount of noise the round needs to traveling at subsonic speeds (<1100 fps) the faster the bullet travels the louder it's going to be, at least as far as 357 mags are concerned.

 

[patcannon]

You might want to check out Double Tap ammo www.doubletapammo.com They advertise their 38spl and 125gr 357 ammo as virtually flash free. If you want the least amount of noise the round needs to traveling at subsonic speeds (<1100 fps) the faster the bullet travels the louder it's going to be, at least as far as 357 mags are concerned.

I've shot the Double Tap and, yes, the flash is minimal. I wouldn't call them quiet, except "for a .357". They're definitely supersonic, about 1250 fps even out of my 2.25" SP101.

 

[Rclark]

If you want the least amount of noise the round needs to traveling at subsonic speeds

That's why a nice big heavy .44 or .45 bullet is better for noise and knock down power. Bigger the bullet the slower it needs to go to get the job done.... And a nice bonus with a 'boom' rather than the the 10db higher 'craaack' of a magnum round. Again personal preference....

 

[maxpress]

at least everybody in the room is in the same situation. its not really funny but i think it would be comical in a movie. i can just picture a bunch of blind deaf guys with concusion shock trying to figure out how to get the upper hand. lol

It is a handgun going off in an enclosed space, not a concussion grenade.

When I was stupider and 21, I put 40 rounds down the pipe of my SP101 in short order in a very small enclosed space, without hearing protection. I did not suffer any concussion shock or disorentation from the firearm.

I do have a ringing in my left ear to this day some 10 years later though. As I said I was younger and stupider.

i said it would be funny in a movie :lol: remember the rediculous scenes in saving ryans privates when tom hanks would go slow mo.
i have had explosives and large caliber weapons go off in a building around me. its not fun but it never crumpled me or gave me shell shock.
know of one guy that tossed a grenade in a door and forgot to wait till it went off before he folowed it in. that had to hurt.

 

[WESHOOT2]

...... I still think a 'big' slow (800fps is slow?) bullet will take down an attacker just as efficiently as a zipping tiny bullet.....

A zipping tiny bullet has repeatedly been street-proven as the most effective anti-personnel choice.

Or perhaps I misunderstand the meaning of "efficiently".

 

[Rclark]

A zipping tiny bullet has repeatedly been street-proven as the most effective anti-personnel choice.

So a zipping little .22LR 29g bullet is better than a 125g .38 bullet traveling at less speed? .... Anyway, Weshoot2, I personally have no experience one way or the other so I'll back out of the efficiency statement . But using the 'same bullet' (apples to apples comparision) I'd totally agree. A little bitty 125g bullet in a 38 compared to same in .357.... But trading speed for bullet mass and frontal area 'should' be same/better for close work.... When you hunt bear for example.... do you pick a light bullet going really really fast (say .223), or a nice 'heavy' bullet going quite a bit slower (say hot .45 Colt or .454)? Anyway, that is only my opinion.

 

[Shoot44]

A zipping tiny bullet has repeatedly been street-proven as the most effective anti-personnel choice.

Hey, Weshoot, you're never going to win this argument; I gave up long ago. Even though you are, of course, correct.
I once had a fellow on a forum counter my comments about energy being the principal factor in anti-personnel with the comment that: "well, then why don't you hunt moose with your 17HMR". So I calmly answered him that it is ENERGY, not velocity that counts, and that if it were just 'caliber' then why are almost all white tails taken with 30 caliber guns, instead of 45 ACP's?
Most will also keep repeating the mantra about bullet size, completely forgetting that a smaller bullet going faster will EXPAND, often to MUCH larger size than that slow big bullet.
So it's not worth the effort to try to discuss this anymore - for me anyway. I just read several comments in a handgun magazine that once again referred to "stopping power" and "knockdown power" of a 45. Oh well..... (BTW, I also read where a LEO was called to eliminate a rabid fox, and it took MULTIPLE SHOTS with a 45 ACP to kill the little thing....)

 

[Rclark]

I guess we are moving a bit off topic too .... Use what feels right to you for the job at hand....

then why are almost all white tails taken with 30 caliber guns,

probably because most hunters (me included) can't get close enough to them to hit them with a .45 . Hah! Need a long range, flat shooting caliber with enough 'Energy' at impact to put the animal down!

 

[surveyor47]

Since when is a 357 cal 135 to 158 grain hollow point at 950 to 990 fps ineffective? Those are actually some prety stiff +P38 Special loadings, boardering on light 357 levels. In my opinion, the heavier 357 Magnum loadings are proabaly LESS effective than +P38 Specials precisely because of the blast and recoil, plus potiential overpentration. The effecive rate of fire for +P38s for most people is proabaly 50% higher than 357s. You might find some expert who can fire 357s at the same rate as 38s, but that is not the usual case.

When cops were having to deal with 158 round nose bullets at 750 to 800 fpss, there were ammo problems, just as there are with 9mm full metal jacket ammo today.

 

[WESHOOT2]

My my my.......

I would simply point out that .355--.357" 115--127g bullets launched in excess of 1220fps (or the 135--155g .400" at 1200fps minimum) have repeatedly been credited with a 'slap' on human targets.

One, of course, may ignore this. I do not (apparently neither did SIG and Federal recently, ay?).


Oh, I never-ever use "energy" as a measure; not ever. It is meaningless math when used as a measure.

 

[maxpress]

from working in a hospital i can say im all about shot placement. 1/4" can make the difference between walking in to the ER and bleeding out in a matter of minutes. .357s have a proven record, that being said i still preffer big subsonic bullets inside if i cant get ahold of a 12ga. i know the .357 is a great stopper and will expand but for less noise recoil and flash i will stick with a bullet thats already expanded to to the upper limit of a .357 anymore expansion is gravy. I still carry a .357 most of the time though.

 

[surveyor47]

Its also about being able to hit the target rapidly and accurately. A 357 may very well have a 95% single shot stop probability, but the recovery time is so long that it may as well be a single action. If we consider a gunfight to last all of 5 seconds, you can figure that an average person armed with a 357 will be lucky to get off 2 aimed shots, while it is no trick to get off 6 aimed shots with a 38. In that case, I think I would stick with +P38s.

On the other hand, the 40S&W has a single shot stop probability close to the 357 and a rate of fire similar to the 38. The 40S&W will usually be easier to shoot than the 38 and much faster to reload. Not all that long ago, I shot a Glock Match with a GP100 with 38 target loads. For 6 shots I was able to keep up with the Glock and after that, I was toast.

 

[mraywi]

A zipping tiny bullet has repeatedly been street-proven as the most effective anti-personnel choice.

Hey, Weshoot, you're never going to win this argument; I gave up long ago. Even though you are, of course, correct.
I once had a fellow on a forum counter my comments about energy being the principal factor in anti-personnel with the comment that: "well, then why don't you hunt moose with your 17HMR". So I calmly answered him that it is ENERGY, not velocity that counts, and that if it were just 'caliber' then why are almost all white tails taken with 30 caliber guns, instead of 45 ACP's?
Most will also keep repeating the mantra about bullet size, completely forgetting that a smaller bullet going faster will EXPAND, often to MUCH larger size than that slow big bullet.

So it's not worth the effort to try to discuss this anymore - for me anyway. I just read several comments in a handgun magazine that once again referred to "stopping power" and "knockdown power" of a 45. Oh well..... (BTW, I also read where a LEO was called to eliminate a rabid fox, and it took MULTIPLE SHOTS with a 45 ACP to kill the little thing....)

I would venture to say it took multiple shots to HIT the little thing!!!

 

[WESHOOT2]

I shot an intruding groundhog five times with a 220g LTC .452" bullet from less than twenty feet before it stopped trying to dodge.....I believe if I'd grabbed a 357 (normally laying about with a zippy 125g R-P S-JHP bullet loaded in its cases) and hit that rodent once it would have bulged like I'd hit a melon.....

 

[surveyor47]

If you had shot it exactly once with 2 3/4" 20 gauge #6 shot it would have laid there twitching it feet. How do I know that? Because I have taken literal truck loads of game with that load.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Except I own no long guns, as I'm belt-fed only.

 

[surveyor47]

There is a reason that farmers always seem to have an old shotgun near the back door, rather than a pistol or revolver!

 

[63November]

Anyone who has handloaded a variety of ammo knows that certain powders are especially bright and/or loud in certain load combinations. Identical performing loads of such powders as 4227 and 110/296 can provide remarkably different volumes of flash and noise. It is worth pursuing. Also, sometimes a heavier bullet can help get things burned a bit better and consequently suppress some of the undesirables.

 

[maxpress]

wow, good point november. my 125s take 17.5 of 2400 and the 170s only get 14.5 of 2400. more power less powder.