How say you?

[Bob Wright]

I was into a thread on another gun forum regarding the possible comeback of Colt into the revovler market, and some speculating was invovled. What would likely be a reentry for Colt?

My thinking is that the Ruger Vaquero has drifted from its original "cowboy" concept. Its black plastic grips and all blue finish have been the source of some criticism of late. The Ubertis with their one piece walnut grip and handsome case hardened colors have established these guns in many circles.

Suppose Colt re-introduced their Cowboy single action for such a market, maybe in some of the old time calibers?

As I posted not too long back, I looked for a non-Ruger for my last purchase. Don't want to start off buying new grips for a bland looking revolver.

What do ya'll think?

Bob Wright

 

[Bountyhunter]

I'd like a 6" stainless Python, myself.

 

[Jbrown75]

Didn't Colt reintroduce the New Frontier single action again?

 

[Danjet500]

Yep, look very nice too.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRevolvers/ColtNewFrontier.aspx

 

[Bob Wright]

Didn't Colt reintroduce the New Frontier single action again?

They did. However, that gun is not likely to get them back into the mainstream market. The news/speculation is that Colt is probably trying to get back into a competitive position. Neither the Python nor the Diamondback can be reintroduced at a competitive price with such guns as the L-Framed and N-Framed Smiths. And certainly no "disaster models" that would cut their own throats.

Bob Wright

 

[KWYJIBO]

USFA has been producing top quality Colt single action clones for years, and recent rumors suggest they're struggling and perhaps won't last much longer. If that's true, I don't see how Colt would succeed with the same type of product.

A new production single action army with premium quality finish and nice grip panels, chambered for old time cowboy cartridges would be a cool novelty, but not a big seller, I suspect.

Uberti offers a decent quality product for much less money than a Colt or USFA. These fill the admittedly small demand from buyers who don't care a lot about authenticity and can't afford $1200 toys.

As for CAS, it's my understanding that Ruger fills a lion's share of that market with Vaqueros. Shooters prefer them for their durability and safety.

So let's say Ruger takes 60% of the CAS market, give or take. Uberti, Beretta, Cimarron, and the like take another 30%. The remainder goes to a combination of USFA and old production Colt. What part of this breakdown would Colt intrude on with new production?

IF the price were reasonable, some CAS competitors would buy new Colts, and some collectors--even if the fit and finish weren't top notch--simply because of their authenticity. But we're not talking huge numbers here.

I can see them filling a niche if they could keep their price point down (ideally below that of USFA), offer good service, and set up an extensive distribution network to get lots of product spread far and wide. That's a tall order to fill, and I doubt they could pull if all off. I'd like to see it, though.

 

[flatgate]

Colt ain't made one like this in a while, eh?

flatgate

 

[DGW1949]

Just thinking out loud;
Colt made some some very nice revolvers over the years. But today's market is quite different from yesterday's market.
Aint too many folks that's all that interested in .38 Spl revolvers these days, and the cops quit using them decades ago.
The Tropper .357's were OK guns but pug-ugly, and about as balanced as a brick. Thinking back, I've only known one guy in my entire life that actualy owned one.
As I remember it, the CAS crowd wasn't all that impressed with the Cowboy, because a SSA it aint....and that's about the largest market that Colt could have hoped for.
The Detective Spl and Cobra might fit into a niche market but that's about all it would be.
Towards the end, Colt tried marketing all sorts of variations of their D-frame to no avail. I can't think of anything that's changed since that would make today's outcome any different.

On the other hand, maybe my thinking is all wrong here. Maybe Colt has something new on the drawing board that folks won't be able to resist. If they do, I hope it's affordable because I might want one too.

DGW

 

[Hondo44]

Colt's biggest SA market is not CAS. Colt literally has its own SA market with no competition; Colt collectors and possessors. Many are not even fired, they are purchased and held or resold. They sell more engraved SAs than any other brand.

Their SA product line took a big leap this year with the reintroduction of the New Frontier, some authentic non-standard barrel lengths, finish options like CCH hammers, and traditional caliber options.

The Colt Cowboy was a big flop. Too expensive to compete with the clones and Ruger Vaqueros. Too ugly and non-traditional for Colt collector purists.

"The General", the new Colt CEO, has stated that DAs as in Pythons are being considered as Colt's 1st civilian market re-entry. Small frame .22s might have a good market and some light weight guns.

 

[Timbo22]

I don't think that Ruger has drifted away from the 'cowboy' concept at all. New Vaqueros having the plastic grip is paralleling just what Colt did with their SSA back in the day. The really old examples that I see at gun shows have the composite grips (19th centrury equilalent material) that are pretty much smooth now. The 'cheese graters' will smooth out in time, but I'm not too enamored of the all blue finish though. The Colt 'Cowboy" was a flop because it did not please anyone.

If Colt returns to making revolvers, I think thier best competitive bet would be a compact six shot 38 Special along the lines of their old Detective Special. S&W is selling lots of J frames, Charter is selling lots of Undercovers and Ruger is selling lots of LCRs but all of those are five shot models. When Colt was competing with S&W for the compact revolver market in the 40's and 50's one of their selling points was 6 vs. 5 shots on a platform only marginally bigger.

The real question is CAN Colt make a competitively priced revolver. They would have to introduce new manufacturing processes that do away with much of the hand fitting. I saw a Cobray (?) 2" barreled five shot 38 Special at a gun show last week. The frame was aluminum alloy but otherwise an almost exact copy of a S&W 640 (J frame, enclosed striker/hammer model) priced at $300. That's about half of what a Smith's retails for and looked to be of very good quality. So it can be done.

I would certainly consider buying a new Colt six shot 38 Special or 22 LR, especially a light weight one, if the price was in line with the competition. I own one of the later versions of the Detective Special, the DS II, that I bought in 1998, a bunch of J frames and SP-101s in various calibers (22, 32, 38, 357 and 9mm), and LCRs in 357 and 22 LR, so I like compact revolvers.

Just my two cents.

 

[gak]

+1 to comments - let's not forget that "Cowboy" effort was a huge dud, some say disaster. Not sure what/how they'd do another.
This doesn't get to the idea of an expanded market, but paying attention to its current customer base - I can see Colt "improving" it's traditional line--across the board--with USFA-like (ie, original Colt) regular catalog features/options as the CCH hammer, and true first gen "BP" cylinder chamfer, IIRC not even available on the BP framed (front screw) 3rd Gen guns to date. Also, more grip options as easy catalog items (not just expensive custom shop) such as one and two piece walnut, etc. Maybe reusrrection of the 1st and early 2nd Gen non eagle checkered grips as standard. Colt could also finally catalog the SAA (fixed sight) in .44 Special, like it has with the re-intro of the New Frontier. Last I checked, they had not yet done that.

Other: I can see Colt magnumizing a strengthened Detective Special in .357 a la the very similar Rossi snubs, with something like 1-3/4, 2-3/4 and 3-3/4" barrel options. The small (D or what I also call J+) frame six shot .357 market has, AFAIK, but one entry - the Rossi. Could use another.

Regarding Ruger, I'd really like to see them bring back (an improved) "CCH," on its New Vaquero line at least as an in-shop option. Also a more prominent "BP" bevel to the cylinders (flutes). Bob Wright, you (and a lot of others) may not like the black plastic grip but when you think about it, can't be argued that (despite being cheap to produce I imagine) they were harkening folks back to the vaunted 1st and 2nd Gen Colts, 75% of which I bet came that way from the factory. In a sense, doesn't get much more traditional "cowboy" than that. I've kept mine for a decent "working" grip--toned down a bit with some 000--giving my custom grips an occasional break for rough duty. My main ussue with them is they're too slim and lacking iin much "profile," despite my small hands. Just copy the Colt shape fer goshsakes! (This issue has been solved with custom grips courtesy Mr. Schultz)
That said, I agree they should offer the customer a decent wood at least as an option like used to be standard.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

If I was going to introduce a new revolver in would be in the light-weight market. Something like a LCR but more traditional with a hammer and in 2"-3"-4" barrels and in 22LR, 32mag and 38sp. A camping/beginners gun.

 

[Lee Martin]

I'd love to see the Python reintroduced but I think production cost will keep the model buried for good.

 

[dlhredfoxx]

I can't imagine Colt being foolish enough to make that big of a marketing mistake. The competition has gobbled up what little share Colt had left before they withdrew. CAS is mostly working class guys that can't afford a $1k+ revolver "shooter" gun, much less a pair. Ruger owns that market, followed by USFA and the import clones. If USFA falls out, Ruger and whomever is left will take that share. The only play Colt has is the legacy of the brand. If it were me, I'd open up a Colt custom shop (or at least expand it's current offerings) where people with money could buy authentic newly made SAA's in any bbl length (standard or non-standard) in all the old vintage cowboy calibers, with special custom options and features like ivory grips, or engraving, CCH frames and hammers, etc. and charge $2k+ for them... the "premium" market, which embraces legacy brands like Colt, would be all over this... as is evidenced by the fact that they are sort of doing that today. But to re-enter the mainstream SA revolver market (the good/better/best segments) when that is occupied by Uberti/Ruger/USFA already would be a mistake. Plus, all people really buy anymore (the mainstream handgun market) is black plastic semi-auto's anyway. The SA revolver market It is a niche market, that's already filled. This would be a mistake for Colt, IMHO.

 

[bigedd]

How about some of the classics like the 1917, Officer's model, Police positive, etc.? S&W has done alright with their "classics".

 

[Olsherm]

I think Ruger couls improve on their current New Vaquero in my opinion.Like replacing that gosh-awful looking hammer sticking up there.And a better finish and maybe fit.The loading gates have cracks around them you could throw a cat through.I know that would take a little fitting but I would buy it if I could afford it.I have a new Vaquero but I have been fortunate enough to obtain some of the USFA which are better as far as "specs go/bore and cylinder mouth measurements ect".I also have a new Colt (early nineties vintage nickel finish)its grips are plastic howbeit a little fatter in the middle.I like the thin plastics grips on the Vaquero but they could use a little more form like USFA grips.

 

[Hondo44]

I like the thin plastics grips on the Vaquero but they could use a little more form like USFA grips.

Yes, they should have narrowed the grips OR the grip frame, but not both! My USFA are perfect just the way they come with either wood or plastic.

 

[gak]

I like the thin plastics grips on the Vaquero but they could use a little more form like USFA grips.

Yes, they should have narrowed the griups OR the grip frame, but not both! My USFA are perfect just the way they come with either wood or plastic.

+1+1 both the USFA's and Colt's are perfect the way they are, size 'n shape wise. In fact, though there have been changes through the generations (the current/3rd Gen are larger all around, and the 1st's especially slimmer), every factory grip'd Colt I've ever handled has been perfect - somehow. Why reinvent the wheel? I think Ruger listened too much to the "gunfighter" fans. Almost zero profile (viewed on end) to the current (NV/Flattop) crop.
Also a +1 to recontouring the hammer. Ditto, every USFA and Colt I've handled has been spot on, just copy it!

 

[Ale-8(1)]

I would bet their only appreciable market for "real" Colts would be those who want a "real" colt in terms of configuration and quality of materials/construction, which would almost assuredly demand a "real" Colt price. There's a market there of folks with those wants and means, but I'll bet it's not large enough to encourage the bean counters to approve the required effort.

JMHO

 

[Hondo44]

I would bet their only appreciable market for "real" Colts would be those who want a "real" colt in terms of configuration and quality of materials/construction, which would almost assuredly demand a "real" Colt price. There's a market there of folks with those wants and means, but I'll bet it's not large enough to encourage the bean counters to approve the required effort.

JMHO

Ale,
Yeah other than the single actions, if new DAs are introduced and don't reflect the old favorites in quality and workmanship, then goodbye "real" Colt buyers. Any new Colt products will be in the arena with all the other makers in the competitive market jungle that have already clawed out a foothold for their own brands. Colt will need something real special and competitive to muscle in on that action!

 

[DGW1949]

I would bet their only appreciable market for "real" Colts would be those who want a "real" colt in terms of configuration and quality of materials/construction, which would almost assuredly demand a "real" Colt price. There's a market there of folks with those wants and means, but I'll bet it's not large enough to encourage the bean counters to approve the required effort.

JMHO

Ale,
Yeah other than the single actions, if new DAs are introduced and don't reflect the old favorites in quality and workmanship, then goodbye "real" Colt buyers. Any new Colt products will be in the arena with all the other makers in the competitive market jungle that have already clawed out a foothold for their own brands. Colt will need something real special and competitive to muscle in on that action!

I agree with both of ya'll and I'd bet that Colt knows it too.

DGW