Three50seven
Buckeye
Just wondering how precise you all are when it comes to charge weights. Personally, I won't use a charge unless it is within .1 grains of the desired charge. Feel free to comment as well.
How precise are you with measuring powder?
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OldePhart
Blackhawk
It depends on what I'm loading. Loading a few hundred minor PF rounds for IDPA where pressures are fairly low and so-so accuracy is acceptable I actually use a dipper now because my measure started acting wonky and I didn't bother to replace it when I realized that I had dippers that were right on the charge I was using, anyway. The dipper is just as accurate as my measure and is quicker...or at least not any slower.
For something where I want more accuracy or I'm pushing max (and I'm loading fewer rounds) I'll trickle each charge onto the digital scale and get it exact.
For something where I want more accuracy or I'm pushing max (and I'm loading fewer rounds) I'll trickle each charge onto the digital scale and get it exact.
OP
Three50seven
Buckeye
I agree, though I rarely if ever load to max levels. When loading plinking rounds, I weigh every fifth charge, but I still want it to be within 1/10 grain. If loading more precise ammo, I usually weigh every charge or every other depending on quantity.
My Lyman powder measure will drop loads right on the money every time if I really fine tune it, I do like loads very precise right on or a hair under never over with target loads is fine.
When loading serious big game hunting rounds I make them dead on I measure each load on the scale, rather than using my powder measure, I even bring out the powder trickler to add a cornel or two of powder if needed.
When loading serious big game hunting rounds I make them dead on I measure each load on the scale, rather than using my powder measure, I even bring out the powder trickler to add a cornel or two of powder if needed.
Jim Puke
Hunter
Depends on what I am loading the ammo for. Hunting rounds, every charge is checked, general shooting and plinking rounds are checked about every 10rds. I have had ALL types of powder measures and I have NEVER had a single measure that dropped exact loads EVERY time. Some have been better than others, but none of them are perfect...so, I only use them for the rounds that can vary in powder charge. This is for all handgun rounds...every charged is checked on the rifle rounds.
When I'm working up a load, or loading a new to me caliber, I usually weigh each load to +/- .1 gr. Then when I get a promising load, I'll weigh each load to as close to +/- 0.0 as I can get. After I get a load down pat I'll go with my powder measure and weigh every 3rd or 4th drop, depending on powder, and for my handgun loads using a good measuring powder, I'll weigh one outta 8 or 10...
powder smoke
Hawkeye
My hunting ammo gets weighted each and every one. Plinking ammo I use my powder thrower
check them at random somewhere between 5 or 10 rounds surprising how consistent they are. ps
check them at random somewhere between 5 or 10 rounds surprising how consistent they are. ps
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Hi,
What's important to me is whether the bullet ends up where it's supposed to. Once it does, I don't shoot at anything that can tell if the load was +/- 0, +/- 0.1, or "worse" as some would have us believe. Is Bambi gonna be DRT with a dead nuts load, run 50 yds with a +/- 0.1 load, or cause you a half mile track with a +/- 0.2 load? If we assume the exact same hit with each, I kinda doubt it...
Then I take into account percentages of error, too. If the load I'm working on is a 5.0 gr pistol load, an error of just 0.1 gr is 2% either way. That same 2% error, applied to a 50 gr rifle load allows a FULL grain difference! I can hear the shrieks of horror already!
So... to satisfy my inner Virgo male, I'll hand weigh test loads to dead nuts spec. Then I shoot 'em. If I can shoot a 1" group with one, then set up the powder measure and continue to shoot 1"-1 1/2", maybe even 2" groups with thrown charges, I probably won't bother with the rest of the special care of weighing everything. Admittedly, I'd probably be a bit more careful if there's some psychological reward at stake, such as competition shooters or the bench rest crowd work toward. OTOH, if that same 1" hand weighed group turns into a 4" group with thrown loads, then I've got some thinking and changing to do.
A lot of that's academic, though: I can't see like I once could, usually have a good case of the caffeine shakes, and carry a lot of shotgunning habits to my rifle and pistol shooting (GOOD shotgun habits can be very BAD with rifles/pistols), so there are many potential errors built in before I ever load a round! Some of you are blessed with a lack of these problems, so maybe more precision in your loading pays off for you. There's only one way to find out! For myself, a vote of 0.2-0.3 gr works. Naturally, as with so many things in the reloading hobby, YMMV!
Rick C
What's important to me is whether the bullet ends up where it's supposed to. Once it does, I don't shoot at anything that can tell if the load was +/- 0, +/- 0.1, or "worse" as some would have us believe. Is Bambi gonna be DRT with a dead nuts load, run 50 yds with a +/- 0.1 load, or cause you a half mile track with a +/- 0.2 load? If we assume the exact same hit with each, I kinda doubt it...
Then I take into account percentages of error, too. If the load I'm working on is a 5.0 gr pistol load, an error of just 0.1 gr is 2% either way. That same 2% error, applied to a 50 gr rifle load allows a FULL grain difference! I can hear the shrieks of horror already!
So... to satisfy my inner Virgo male, I'll hand weigh test loads to dead nuts spec. Then I shoot 'em. If I can shoot a 1" group with one, then set up the powder measure and continue to shoot 1"-1 1/2", maybe even 2" groups with thrown charges, I probably won't bother with the rest of the special care of weighing everything. Admittedly, I'd probably be a bit more careful if there's some psychological reward at stake, such as competition shooters or the bench rest crowd work toward. OTOH, if that same 1" hand weighed group turns into a 4" group with thrown loads, then I've got some thinking and changing to do.
A lot of that's academic, though: I can't see like I once could, usually have a good case of the caffeine shakes, and carry a lot of shotgunning habits to my rifle and pistol shooting (GOOD shotgun habits can be very BAD with rifles/pistols), so there are many potential errors built in before I ever load a round! Some of you are blessed with a lack of these problems, so maybe more precision in your loading pays off for you. There's only one way to find out! For myself, a vote of 0.2-0.3 gr works. Naturally, as with so many things in the reloading hobby, YMMV!
Rick C
Perhaps the poll would yield more precise results had you separated rifle and pistol.
For rifle: exact charge as measured by a magnetic force restoration balance. Tweezers add/subtract powder as needed to adjust the charge.
For pistol (and high volume plinking rifle ammo): quality powder measure on a progressive press, periodically tested during the "production" run. If a charge is more than +/-0.1gr off target when tested, it is discarded and the powder measure's settings are verified and adjusted as/if needed before going further.
It doesn't matter to me whether I can't shoot as well as my rifle can . . . I do not want handloading errors to magnify my failures at the range.
For rifle: exact charge as measured by a magnetic force restoration balance. Tweezers add/subtract powder as needed to adjust the charge.
For pistol (and high volume plinking rifle ammo): quality powder measure on a progressive press, periodically tested during the "production" run. If a charge is more than +/-0.1gr off target when tested, it is discarded and the powder measure's settings are verified and adjusted as/if needed before going further.
It doesn't matter to me whether I can't shoot as well as my rifle can . . . I do not want handloading errors to magnify my failures at the range.
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
I try and load everything as close as I can (>.1gr either way) except for plinking or low power loads. I want to stay as consistent as possible. 
SweetWilliam
Buckeye
My rcbs uniflow throws ball powder pretty accurate. But with stick powder it's usally with in .2grs. Which in my opinion is good enough for what I'm doing. Considering .2grs of most stick powders = about 6 to 8 kernels & on average about 6 to 8 fps.
I usally don't load max rifle loads.
And using flake powder it's usally withing .1/.2grs.
I usally don't load max rifle loads.
And using flake powder it's usally withing .1/.2grs.
opos
Buckeye
I weigh everything (rifle and handgun) on a 5-0-5...I dip with a lee dipper that dips just under my load..then use an RCBS trickler...Never have owned a measure.
Been loading for years..never in a hurry...shoot a lot of single action revolvers so no need to load 1000 rounds a day...I enjoy loading and each step...so I don't rush. Recently had some issues with my scale (it's been well used) and contacted RCBS...they sent me a pair of new agate v blocks....replaced them in my scale and it's back to perfection...cost? zip.
Been loading for years..never in a hurry...shoot a lot of single action revolvers so no need to load 1000 rounds a day...I enjoy loading and each step...so I don't rush. Recently had some issues with my scale (it's been well used) and contacted RCBS...they sent me a pair of new agate v blocks....replaced them in my scale and it's back to perfection...cost? zip.
I weigh to dead exact when I am shooting for groups to determine a load. Then I pick the most accurate AND forgiving load. I graph all of my group shooting info and choose accordingly. If I don't get a load that doesn't satisfy both criteria I change powders and try again. I have seen powders give a double hump like shown with one at the low end of safe and the other at the high end. I sketched this graph as an example a couple years ago.
Yes the 22.1 gr load is the most accurate BUT it is very weight sensitive. Whereas the 23.8-24.6 range gives very good accuracy without tying you to your reloading bench. If I want better accuracy this would be a candidate for a different powder. One of my favorite loads gives me almost 2 grs of leeway while only going from .4" to .55" groups at 100m.
Yes the 22.1 gr load is the most accurate BUT it is very weight sensitive. Whereas the 23.8-24.6 range gives very good accuracy without tying you to your reloading bench. If I want better accuracy this would be a candidate for a different powder. One of my favorite loads gives me almost 2 grs of leeway while only going from .4" to .55" groups at 100m.
Precision rifle ammo is often within one GRANULE of powder. Plinking/high volume use .223 is within .1 grain. Handgun ammo is whatever the measure will manage-usually less than .1 grain.
Big Old Boy
Hunter
My Rcbs charge master loads them all on the money.
OP
Three50seven
Buckeye
I have been researching and comparing the automatic dispensers/scales and if (when) I get one, it will most likely be the Lyman Gen6.
One of the best things you can do with a powder measure is add a baffle if it doesn't have one.
Bucks Owin
Hunter
Dan in MI said:
Yep, and a consistent operation of the measure itself. Not "hamhanded" but with "authority" if you catch my drift... :wink:
As to weighing a charge right down to the granule, it may be a pleasant passtime but contributes little to actual accuracy. Most serious benchresters don't... :shock:
375supermag
Blackhawk
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 557
Hi..
I mostly load handgun rounds.
When working up a load I weigh every charge exactly.
After I settle on a load, I use a powder measure to dispense powder charges. I weigh every 10th charge. I use a Lil Dandy RCBS unit...the rotors are usually pretty consistent. I don't worry much about mid-range loads, but for anything near max loads, I get real anal about weighing charges. With W296/H110, I sometimes weigh every load...I load few cartridges to max or thereabouts so it is no big problem. A couple hundred max charges for a given bullet weight/style is about as much as I need at any given time.
Mid-range loads are loaded in 500-1000 round batches and a slight .1gr variation is a non-issue.
I just bought a new Hornady LNL progressive press and once I get a new bench and the case and bullet feeder in hand and set up all of my volume loading will be done on that unit. My son and I are going to learn on the progressive at the same time and then he will be doing the bulk of the handgun reloading and I will switch over to nothing but single-stage press load development and rifle reloading.
The initial expense is a bit intimidating just with the basic press, case feeder and bullet feeder. However, add-on costs like shell plates, new die sets and transitioning to plated bullets for generic shooting and plinking rounds really drives the cost per round up.
I don't think amortizing the cost of the tooling into per round cost calculation is really a worthwhile endeavor. Just having the ability to crank out cartridges in volume is well worth the expense in the long run.
Still, at $476US out the door the basic press is a bit expensive . Another $500+US should cover the case and bullet feeder. I found a nice heavy bench at Sam's Club (not really interested in building another reloading bench and my current one is full of RCBS stuff) for right about $200US. So, we are at right about $1200US and still need to buy shell plates, new die sets, etc.
I am getting new die sets because I have NO interest in constantly adjusting my current dies to work on the Hornady set-up. This will also afford me the opportunity to experiment with some other manufacturer's die sets. Heretofore, I have almost exclusively used RCBS die sets, but I will try a few Hornady, Lyman and Redding die sets on the LNL. My previous bad experiences with Lee dies may be re-evaluated as well. We will see. I know where I can buy a few used Lee sets at very low cost, so I may well risk a few dollars on one or two sets, just out of curiosity.
My current RCBS die sets will remain in use for load development use on my RockChucker.
This decision has by necessity pushed back my plan to build an AR-style rifle for at least a few months and it is quite likely there will be no other new guns for a few months as well.
As someone once said..."Pay once, cry once".
I mostly load handgun rounds.
When working up a load I weigh every charge exactly.
After I settle on a load, I use a powder measure to dispense powder charges. I weigh every 10th charge. I use a Lil Dandy RCBS unit...the rotors are usually pretty consistent. I don't worry much about mid-range loads, but for anything near max loads, I get real anal about weighing charges. With W296/H110, I sometimes weigh every load...I load few cartridges to max or thereabouts so it is no big problem. A couple hundred max charges for a given bullet weight/style is about as much as I need at any given time.
Mid-range loads are loaded in 500-1000 round batches and a slight .1gr variation is a non-issue.
I just bought a new Hornady LNL progressive press and once I get a new bench and the case and bullet feeder in hand and set up all of my volume loading will be done on that unit. My son and I are going to learn on the progressive at the same time and then he will be doing the bulk of the handgun reloading and I will switch over to nothing but single-stage press load development and rifle reloading.
The initial expense is a bit intimidating just with the basic press, case feeder and bullet feeder. However, add-on costs like shell plates, new die sets and transitioning to plated bullets for generic shooting and plinking rounds really drives the cost per round up.
I don't think amortizing the cost of the tooling into per round cost calculation is really a worthwhile endeavor. Just having the ability to crank out cartridges in volume is well worth the expense in the long run.
Still, at $476US out the door the basic press is a bit expensive . Another $500+US should cover the case and bullet feeder. I found a nice heavy bench at Sam's Club (not really interested in building another reloading bench and my current one is full of RCBS stuff) for right about $200US. So, we are at right about $1200US and still need to buy shell plates, new die sets, etc.
I am getting new die sets because I have NO interest in constantly adjusting my current dies to work on the Hornady set-up. This will also afford me the opportunity to experiment with some other manufacturer's die sets. Heretofore, I have almost exclusively used RCBS die sets, but I will try a few Hornady, Lyman and Redding die sets on the LNL. My previous bad experiences with Lee dies may be re-evaluated as well. We will see. I know where I can buy a few used Lee sets at very low cost, so I may well risk a few dollars on one or two sets, just out of curiosity.
My current RCBS die sets will remain in use for load development use on my RockChucker.
This decision has by necessity pushed back my plan to build an AR-style rifle for at least a few months and it is quite likely there will be no other new guns for a few months as well.
As someone once said..."Pay once, cry once".
I handload pistol rounds. Mostly 2400 powder. So a 0.1-0.3 gr plus or minus is no big deal for a plinker. OTOH when I load with 296 or red dot I prefer exact charges.
gramps
gramps
Bucks Owin
Hunter
I too carefully weigh each "max" load and have occasionally been guilty of seeing how big a chrono number I can generate... 
But truthfully, if one is loading so hot that a measure thrown 1/10th gr overcharge is worrisome, the best plan is to simply back off the load!
Besides, best accuracy is seldom found with barn burners anyway, not to mention the needless stress on the gun...
(Maybe I should shoot my chrono! :lol: )
But truthfully, if one is loading so hot that a measure thrown 1/10th gr overcharge is worrisome, the best plan is to simply back off the load!
Besides, best accuracy is seldom found with barn burners anyway, not to mention the needless stress on the gun...
(Maybe I should shoot my chrono! :lol: )
Trickling up EVERY charge, is not only slow, but mostly not required, even with match grade loads. Most BR shooters "throw" their charges. Usually how a measure throws, has more to do with YOU, than the measure itself. Few people are deadly consistent from throw to throw and that is what it takes for the measure to do it's job. While I do think baffles help, improving your own technique will help more than anything. A good measure WILL throw consistently, if you are.
And I know some people pooh pooh the RCBS chargemaster, but mine is deadly accurate. And while I am not a full fledged competition shooter, I don't hunt and only shoot for accuracy. That said, I use the chargemaster most of the time now. About the only ones I still "throw" are measures I have had for years, that still use the same loads I have had for years, or are set up for pistol loads on turret presses. Several of my match grade loads have their own measures and never get adjusted. I have some rifles that have been shooting the same load for 20+ years. I have collected 10 measures over the years. 5 are on dedicated turret presses for a single pistol load.
Most have found that POI changes and velocity spreads...........the two things that really matter to competition shooters..........is WAY more about case prep than a couple tenths of a grain of powder.
I have always found it some what odd, that casual loaders and hunters, always talk about "trickling up" charges. I mean if you want to take the time to do it, that's fine, but it doesn't gain you anything. Do you weigh and sort cases, do you weigh and sort bullets, do you equalize neck tension and thickness, do you check for equal ogive on every bullet................If the answer to any of these is no, then trickling is a waste of time, as the overall round prep is not good enough anyway for ultimate accuracy.
Most know that factory loads are thrown by volume, not weight as well. So for 99% of loaders, by a good measure, learn how to use it, weigh every 10-20th charge and have fun. Your ammo will be good.
Within reason of course.......ultimate accuracy, has powder weight a good bit down on the scale of importance. Case prep and consistency of the ammo is key. Charge weight is obviously a part of consistency, but as stated, other things are more important than a tenth of a grain of powder.
My best "match grade" loads, which are "thrown" or done on the Chargemaster, will have a velocity spread of less than 10 FPS in a 10 shot string. If I trickle up every charge, which I did years ago, the spread is NO different. And if the velocity is consistent, POI will be as well.
__________________
And I know some people pooh pooh the RCBS chargemaster, but mine is deadly accurate. And while I am not a full fledged competition shooter, I don't hunt and only shoot for accuracy. That said, I use the chargemaster most of the time now. About the only ones I still "throw" are measures I have had for years, that still use the same loads I have had for years, or are set up for pistol loads on turret presses. Several of my match grade loads have their own measures and never get adjusted. I have some rifles that have been shooting the same load for 20+ years. I have collected 10 measures over the years. 5 are on dedicated turret presses for a single pistol load.
Most have found that POI changes and velocity spreads...........the two things that really matter to competition shooters..........is WAY more about case prep than a couple tenths of a grain of powder.
I have always found it some what odd, that casual loaders and hunters, always talk about "trickling up" charges. I mean if you want to take the time to do it, that's fine, but it doesn't gain you anything. Do you weigh and sort cases, do you weigh and sort bullets, do you equalize neck tension and thickness, do you check for equal ogive on every bullet................If the answer to any of these is no, then trickling is a waste of time, as the overall round prep is not good enough anyway for ultimate accuracy.
Most know that factory loads are thrown by volume, not weight as well. So for 99% of loaders, by a good measure, learn how to use it, weigh every 10-20th charge and have fun. Your ammo will be good.
Within reason of course.......ultimate accuracy, has powder weight a good bit down on the scale of importance. Case prep and consistency of the ammo is key. Charge weight is obviously a part of consistency, but as stated, other things are more important than a tenth of a grain of powder.
My best "match grade" loads, which are "thrown" or done on the Chargemaster, will have a velocity spread of less than 10 FPS in a 10 shot string. If I trickle up every charge, which I did years ago, the spread is NO different. And if the velocity is consistent, POI will be as well.
__________________
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Correct powder charges may have less to do with POI and velocity but when you talk about safety the volume or weight of the powder charge is paramount. Most guns that are blown up are cause by improper powder loads. (general opinion)
Double charges of fast powder are known to be a problem. Loading trays or sighting inside each shell are important measures to prevent overcharging.
Double charges of fast powder are known to be a problem. Loading trays or sighting inside each shell are important measures to prevent overcharging.
I understand that..........but it seems this conversation was more about do you use a measure, or do you feel it required to "trickle up" every charge. Reloading is dangerous has to be done right and you can't fix stupid.............but to the original question of "how precise are you", if your measure will throw consistently within a tenth grain or so, trickling is a really a waste of time. It won't matter.
If that is the ONLY way you feel comfortable, to assure you do everything RIGHT, by all means, trickle away..........but is it REQUIRED for supremely accurate loads........NO
I have been loading for close to 40 years. I have NEVER double charged a case, nor have I EVER failed to charge one. NEVER had a squib round and NEVER blown up a gun. And as I said, if velocity and POI remain constant, however you are doing it WORKS.
If that is the ONLY way you feel comfortable, to assure you do everything RIGHT, by all means, trickle away..........but is it REQUIRED for supremely accurate loads........NO
I have been loading for close to 40 years. I have NEVER double charged a case, nor have I EVER failed to charge one. NEVER had a squib round and NEVER blown up a gun. And as I said, if velocity and POI remain constant, however you are doing it WORKS.
Chuck 100 yd
Hunter
Exact charge weight for precision shooting and hunting loads. I am retired so I have the time to do it right.
Usually I keep my powder charges within the .1gr. +/- Range when loading all pistol/revolver loads ,with the exception of magnum handgun ammo ,and then I want them right on. I shy away from powders they are hard to meter (usually).
Usually I keep my powder charges within the .1gr. +/- Range when loading all pistol/revolver loads ,with the exception of magnum handgun ammo ,and then I want them right on. I shy away from powders they are hard to meter (usually).
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Me neither and I was just reminding folks that correct loading, whether precise or not, is the main goal.gtxmonte said:
I have actually seen more problems with factory ammo.
maxpress
Buckeye
Medium velocity plinkers I check every 25 rounds. Max pressure or target loads I weigh every charge.
Aqualung
Blackhawk
I put 0.1, but I'm actually more finicky about that. I use a Mettler lab balance for a reloading scale. It gets down to the .0x grain range.
For pistol and .30 carbine [and I expect .223 (just getting started with that)], I use a RCBS Uniflow. I weigh every 5th charge on the block, then a random round from each of the remaining 4 per row after all are charged (50-round block). I try to get them within .05 grains of my target load.
For rifle rounds (.300 Savage and .303 British), I use dippers and a trickler to weigh each charge to be *exact*.
Aqualung
For pistol and .30 carbine [and I expect .223 (just getting started with that)], I use a RCBS Uniflow. I weigh every 5th charge on the block, then a random round from each of the remaining 4 per row after all are charged (50-round block). I try to get them within .05 grains of my target load.
For rifle rounds (.300 Savage and .303 British), I use dippers and a trickler to weigh each charge to be *exact*.
Aqualung
Been out of town for a bit.
I agree with a powder measure method has a lot to do with it.
This has been my method since about 1983.
1 -Uniflow with a baffle (I made my own before RCBS started selling them)
2- raise handle to the top firmly, followed by tap-tap
3- handle down firmly, followed by tap-tap
This works very with stick or ball powder. No bridging issues and consistant charges. I also try to use only the large tube.
There are a few calibers that don't work, but generally I can get away with the large drop tube only.
I agree with a powder measure method has a lot to do with it.
This has been my method since about 1983.
1 -Uniflow with a baffle (I made my own before RCBS started selling them)
2- raise handle to the top firmly, followed by tap-tap
3- handle down firmly, followed by tap-tap
This works very with stick or ball powder. No bridging issues and consistant charges. I also try to use only the large tube.
There are a few calibers that don't work, but generally I can get away with the large drop tube only.
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